Season Premiere Airshow Sunday 8 May 2016

[john001]

If UKAR has the clout and reach it claims to have why can't it ask for a summary by a rep of the display pilots or one of them as to how any changes were implemented at OW, what practical effect it had, how did the wind conditions affect and what they are doing, differently to last year and so on. Make it an UKAR official enquiry - it has be done with the CAA before why not OW.

[paullangford]

We had a great day, really enjoyed it.........Thanks to everyone involved at Old Warden

[Tbolt]

Very disappointed by today's show. The CAA have certainly taken away a lot of the magic that made Old Warden such a great venue.

At the last minute I decided to bring a longer lens (300mm + 1.4x TC, 630mm EFL) and I'm very glad I did as my normal setup (340mm, 510mm EFL) for Old Warden just wasn't enough, but there were times when even that didn't feel enough.

First time at Old Warden for me and it was an enjoyable day. Having not been before I haven't experienced the venue prior to the changes but it felt just like any other show to me so that perhaps says it all. However, photography wise I had no issues. We were sat by the car in the 4th row of cars from the front (so maybe 50m back from the fence) and with a 500mm lens it was absolutely fine, a 400mm at the front should have surely been enough?

I was in my usual spot on the fence just down from the bend apex and when an aircraft such as a Hurricane flew round the bend I normally had to zoom back to between 200mm and 250mm to get all the aircraft in. Today even with 420mm a lot of the similar sized aircraft were nowhere close to filling the frame. Of course with longer focal lengths comes faster shutter speed, which means stiller props, but it's not just about the photography - it was always very impressive to see all these aircraft performing that close.

Just to give you an idea, this is what 340mm use to give you here. I didn't get anything like this today with 420mm.

[Flare Path]

If UKAR has the clout and reach it claims to have why can't it ask for a summary by a rep of the display pilots or one of them as to how any changes were implemented at OW, what practical effect it had, how did the wind conditions affect and what they are doing, differently to last year and so on. Make it an UKAR official enquiry - it has be done with the CAA before why not OW.

What's the point? The CAA have made their decision - there's not much OW can do, other than abide by these draconian changes.

The whole thing has become a mess - the nightmare all too real. Very sad.

[pb643]

If UKAR has the clout and reach it claims to have why can't it ask for a summary by a rep of the display pilots or one of them as to how any changes were implemented at OW, what practical effect it had, how did the wind conditions affect and what they are doing, differently to last year and so on. Make it an UKAR official enquiry - it has be done with the CAA before why not OW.

I would be very interested to hear from the organisers and pilots, rather than endless speculation. The only comments I have seen from someone qualified to give them was from Peter Teichman a few weeks ago and from the RIAT forum. I wonder why there is a reluctance for public comment?

[Tomahawk]

My view, it was a slightly weird day, yes there were significant negatives due to the changes but 'ruined as a spectacle' most definitely not. If we can briefly divorce the photography from the airshow, and accepting the wind/tech issues, I think we saw a good show in the air and on the ground. I also think that is what the vast majority of attendees will think who were watching from all the usual vantage points throughout the airfield space, not just by the fenceline getting worked up about display lines.

I was intrigued by one aspect that may have implications elsewhere. I'm sure that whilst the road closure wasn't enforced there were a small number of people in the fields at the airfield eastern boundary. During the closure I saw no one. I also saw a 'men in black' security team at the airfield entrance prior to start of flying. I wonder if they were connected.......

[King Cobra]

Was on the crowd line to the right of the tower and 400mm on a 1.6 crop was insufficient to fill the frame with the P40. I usually shoot from further back to avoid the fence line scrum but from back there I didn't bother pointing my lens at some of the smaller stuff. Formations and both Blenheim and Anson were ok though as they filled the frame OK. Most of the displays lacked the pzazz of former years but that could be at least partly due to the wind direction. Increased altitude for the displays didn't help either. Using runway 12 did give some different angles on landings of the aircraft that used it so that was a bonus. Hurricane came closer than I expected so unless he displayed at less than the 150kt limit, I wonder if the CAA guys present gave him the nod to come closer. Probably wishful thinking on my part.

[john001]

If UKAR has the clout and reach it claims to have why can't it ask for a summary by a rep of the display pilots or one of them as to how any changes were implemented at OW, what practical effect it had, how did the wind conditions affect and what they are doing, differently to last year and so on. Make it an UKAR official enquiry - it has be done with the CAA before why not OW.

What's the point? The CAA have made their decision - there's not much OW can do, other than abide by these draconian changes.

The whole thing has become a mess - the nightmare all too real. Very sad.

The point is we have a lot of 'amateur' views and perceptions (not meant in an unkind way) several of them differing - lets hear how the professionals have changed what they do....

[DamienB]

Said Gazelle that stopped the Reds. I'm sure the tail markings can identify it. Very,very heavy crop.

Practice for the increased display line distance for 2017 probably.

I had no particular interest in today's show but did fancy getting an 'English scene' shot of a cricket match being played while the Reds displayed in the background so popped into Ickwell to take a few pics on the way home from a canoeing trip. It was noteworthy that several aircraft were turning either over or very near to the houses in Ickwell, not 'congested' enough an area to be an issue for all those Permit to Fly types? The road closures were pissing the locals off massively and the poor copper policing it in the village was copping quite a bit of flak. Ice cream man on the village green must have made a fortune as I think half of Bedfordshire had parked up to watch the Reds display.

[FERG]

Evening All

Certainly the line up was excellent as was the weather.

BUT there was no doubt that the distance and height that the aircraft flew meant that the display lost much of the traditional Shuttleworth feel. The trademark "round the bend" passes were mostly absent and my sense was that aside from the Reds the crowd rapidly lost interest in the area around us. At 4pm when I threw the towel in there was already a long line of cars wending their way Northwards (we couldn't go eastwards or southwards because of the road closure...).

At least one very well known and respected display pilot shrugged his shoulders and said frustratedly "it's the new rules" as he walked back along the fence....

For me however the biggest issue was the vast number of people on the live side.... As someone correctly pointed out earlier although traditional aerial action photography was a waste of time unless you were packing a "Hubble" there are normally always other shots to be had at Old Warden during taxi/start up or recovery. Today however even that was almost impossible due to the wall of parked aircraft and the clouds of people trolling around amongst them. Putting aside the irritation of having these people constantly in the way of photography it seems Ironic, given the CAA's focus on de-risking air shows and having successfully cleansed the surrounding fields of humans (apart from the 'men in black'), then to allow swarms of non-essential bodies to roam freely amongst the moving aircraft on the ground..

As a spectacle for those not interested in photography I am sure it was still a great day out and commercially a sell out success but to the rest of the Old Warden faithful and as barometer of future airshows at this venue (and I fear others) is was for me personally a sad day and a led to a very reflective drive (eventually) Southwards...

[LN Strike Eagle]

For me however the biggest issue was the vast number of people on the live side.... As someone correctly pointed out earlier although traditional aerial action photography was a waste of time unless you were packing a "Hubble" there are normally always other shots to be had at Old Warden during taxi/start up or recovery. Today however even that was almost impossible due to the wall of parked aircraft and the clouds of people trolling around amongst them. Putting aside the irritation of having these people constantly in the way of photography it seems Ironic, given the CAA's focus on de-risking air shows and having successfully cleansed the surrounding fields of humans (apart from the 'men in black'), then to allow swarms of non-essential bodies to roam freely amongst the moving aircraft on the ground..

An interesting point. I'm pretty sure the new rules specifically state that only essential personnel are to be located live side - are a small army of photographers "essential"?

[rob68]

It has to be said that Dan O has a point . Something has gone (or should it be added; Ie height and distance). Complain to CAA, today was to high and to far away. 600mm for the SE5. How bad will Duxford be???

[Screechy]

Well thats another venue totally shafted by the Campaign Against Airshows.

Great to see so many familiar faces with the sun beating down. Great to get out the house and relax for the day.
Bloody awful seeing what the suits can do to an industry that it cares nothing for. We might be about to brexit but I think i will be entering Europe for my airshow kicks a lot more frequently from now on.

Fair play to Old Warden for doing what they do to the best of their ability under such draconian constraints.

Ridiculous display line distance, absolutely ridiculous.

[Dan O'Hagan]

It has to be said that Dan O Opinion has a point . Something has gone (or should it be added; Ie height and distance). Complain to CAA, today was to high and to far away. 600mm for the SE5. How bad will Duxford be???

Less of the personal abuse. I am fighting for OUR hobby.

As an example today - here's Peter Teichman's CLOSEST topside pass, unedited, shot at 417mm on a x1.6 crop body:

[LN Strike Eagle]

It has to be said that Dan O has a point . Something has gone (or should it be added; Ie height and distance). Complain to CAA, today was to high and to far away. 600mm for the SE5. How bad will Duxford be???

CAA won't listen to individual voices - I'd suggest it's better to write to Shuttleworth directly. I'm sure they can build a case to present if there's enough feedback from their customers, combined with their highly qualified and experienced pilots.

[Slinger65]

I can only echo a lot of what has been written. Such a shame that OW will never be the same again. This is our third season journeying down from the Midlands - I wouldn't go so far as to say it will be our last, but with the lad turning 16 later in the summer it's going to get a lot more expensive, and for a much lesser impact show. In previous years I've been rooted to the spot watching the likes of the Hind, Gladiator and Sea Hurricane put through their paces, this year I gave up and took a comfort break while the Hurricane was displaying apparently somewhere over Essex.

It makes the new rules look even more ridiculous when a formation of four high-g capable (and flown) aerobatic aircraft have the same crowd separation limits as a sedately flown 1930s biplane. Perhaps the powers that be at OW could approach the CAA to consider revising the rules to differentiate between aerobatic and non-aerobatic flight (although that risks pushing aerobatics even further away I guess). Fencing off the first part of the display line also shows the pettiness of the rules as they've been (hastily) implemented.

With the new FZ1000 only having 400mm of "reach", I quickly gave up on trying to take photos of any of the smaller stuff. Still, got a couple of nice photos of the tulips in the Swiss Garden...

[Mictheslik]

As an example today - here's Peter Teichman's CLOSEST topside pass, unedited, shot at 417mm on a x1.6 crop body:

Yes the P40 was further away, but then the Hurricane later on was a lot closer....some displays will always be further away. PT's display was a lot more aerobatic.

Today was my first time at OW for an airshow. I thoroughly enjoyed it and my camera was in use almost constantly....Yes I needed the 2x converter a few times, but I did last year at most shows. A fair few acts still went around the curve giving some nice top sides. In fact most of the based aircraft did unless part of a formation. They might have been further away than before but they were still close enough IMO (even when watching without a lens)

while the Hurricane was displaying apparently somewhere over Essex.

Were we watching the same show?.....the Hurricane was too close for my prime set up at a couple of points!


.mic

[Tbolt]

As an example today - here's Peter Teichman's CLOSEST topside pass, unedited, shot at 417mm on a x1.6 crop body:

Yes the P40 was further away, but then the Hurricane later on was a lot closer....some displays will always be further away. PT's display was a lot more aerobatic.

Today was my first time at OW for an airshow. I thoroughly enjoyed it and my camera was in use almost constantly....Yes I needed the 2x converter a few times, but I did last year at most shows. A fair few acts still went around the curve giving some nice top sides. In fact most of the based aircraft did unless part of a formation. They might have been further away than before but they were still close enough IMO (even when watching without a lens)

while the Hurricane was displaying apparently somewhere over Essex.

Were we watching the same show?.....the Hurricane was too close for my prime set up at a couple of points!
.mic

Yes the Hurricane was a fair bit closer than the P-40, but still a lot further away than it use to be. I guess it's what you are use to. If you have never been there before, then the show would seem a perfectly fine airshow. But those of us who are regulars have been use to being treated to a completely different kind of show - the first time I went to Old Warden a few years ago I was hooked by how close the aircraft were and the great angles they flew, now it seems that has all been lost.

[Private Custard]

This is Old Warden.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBfVaDr84R0[/youtube]

What we saw today was the equivalent of a once great, now retired, champion boxer coming back for one last fight...........and getting the poo-poo beaten out of him. Despite the pilots best efforts, it's ruined. It was sad to see. Sure, I got some OK shots, but it's just another 400mm and crop it venue now.

[LN Strike Eagle]

This is Old Warden.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBfVaDr84R0[/youtube]

What we saw today was the equivalent of a once great, now retired, champion boxer coming back for one last fight...........and getting the s**t beaten out of him. Despite the pilots best efforts, it's ruined. It was sad to see. Sure, I got some OK shots, but it's just another 400mm and crop it venue now.

Absolutely correct.

[Dan O'Hagan]

What, you mean scores of children and little puppies weren't killed by that Sea Fury display? Did the Daily Mail not have a front page spread calling Chris Gotke the devil incarnate?

Or, shock horror, were airshows regulated properly and safely before, during and after Shoreham 2015?

[SEMAE]

My impression of today's shows is that the atmosphere and ambience of the flying display that mark Old Warden as distinct from any other show, has gone.

For the first time was using a 50 mm lens by default on a 1.6 crop camera which I found quite a shock Previously my 100-400 lens would have been more than enough.

I have been going to air shows since I can ever remember and more 20 shows each year for at least the last 20 years.

In all that time, I have seen 11 fatal crashes, including Shoreham. About 8 of them as a result of pilot error whilst performing aeros ranging from modern semi aerobatic aircraft, through to older classic prop jobs to classic jets crashing on the periphery of the airfield boundary, just inside or just outside the airfield

I have rarely seen an aircraft overfly the crowd line. The only time I can remember this happening is at RIAT and apilot cutting the corner at Duxford. I am aware that a pilot has overflown or flown close to the crowd elsewhere, but the overwhelming feeling I get, is that crowd distances from the crowd line was not broken in the first place so there as no need to fix it.

Many of the aircraft were too high and too far away. The P40 was only about third of the size of my camera view finder I do not know why the Avro 19 bothered to do a solo display as photographically it was boring and boring to watch. Thankfully, in mitigation that was a very nicetwo ship pass with the Avro 19 and Blenheim.

I thought that with the lighter stuff was due to display , things would improve. No they did not. The Magister, Blackburn B2 and the Ryan were so high that none of them from what I could see could do a sustained high bank angle top side. If they were lower, they would not require a quite so hghi angle of bank when turning. This would be more safe and more sustainable. The logic of forcing aircraft to fly higher even when just doing a topside pass, is perverse and makes safety in that respect worse not better.

As I am use to seeing he Red Arrows , though on a few occasion have taken a tea break but this time I was really looking forward to them simply for the novelty value o their appearance at Old Warden. By 3pm however, my enthusiasm to see had gone owing in part to the lame displays that I had already seen.

I am not avers about the display minima being increased when doing a high dynamic manoeuvre but is it safer it when doing a straightforward pass?

To me it looks like we are gong back to the bad old days of constant underside passes so much to the extent that the aircraft are no more entertaining to watch than the machines that fly over or near my house where live in Hampshire.

I also cannot see the logic of doing a risk assessment for every show and then arbitrarily moving the display line further way so they they have to fly over trees and houses instead of the airfield.

I have already purchased tickets for the Old Warden Fly Navy day and the Duxford May show (Saturday only) I have also got my Mach 3 pass for RIAT but I am no longer looking forward to any of them. I have no idea what the flying at Duxford will be like

If I purchase a ticket for Farnborough, with all those weekend war birds, willl I start thinking that I wish I had gone elsewhere or that I was doing something else when the display starts?

The only shows I am looking forward is La Ferte -Alais and Creil in France and Hahnweide in Germany. Assuming nothing has changed with these shows, the display flying and photo opportunities from now on will be better than anything we will now be able to offer in the UK

I will not be going to the Old Warden 'at home day' as I think it will be too boring and you do not know what is in the tin. I will go to a fly inn instead.

I am now reluctant to by tickets for any show in the UK until I know better. In future, I will probably reduce the number of shows I go to overall and opt for a higher number better quality foreign shows as well as a preference to more Fly in events.

Thanks

Martin Eames

[UKTopgun]

A really odd show today imho. Nothing felt Old Warden about it. Let me elaborate...
Sell out show and people everywhere, parking stretched for miles into the lovely Shuttleworth College grounds.
Commercially a huge success but the charm of the place always was the intimacy, the quiet shows and the genteel feel, for want of a better word. Today the charm had gone. The arrows brought the families and kids to the place which I have never seen before in any number, don't get me wrong I took my daughter today but should OW be trying to serve the seaside show market? They were great btw as always, Lingy sounded very peeved about the Gazelle and rightly so.

Yes the displays were high, wide and not too handsome. The hastily built second fence added about 20m at southern end but did not extend to tower end thankfully. A nonsense really. The display line seemed almost over the house and farm, a riskier position I would say. The new regs did not totally ruin it for me but you did not feel as involved as a spectator ... As someone who has seen shows here for past few years, I count myself quite lucky to have seen them as they are never coming back by the looks of it.

I hoped that OW sell outs would be confined to the 558 last hurrah last Oct but it seems not, if this is the way things are going I am not sure it is for the better, although I understand the commercial imperative of course.
Shuttleworth has always been about the connection between spectator and display in a gorgeous unhurried venue, if this fades so too does much of their raison d'etre. As I commenced the trek back to the car in fading afternoon sunlight, I was left contemplating if some of the magic has gone, and what, if anything can be done to get it back.

[Tomahawk]

What, you mean scores of children and little puppies weren't killed by that Sea Fury display? Did the Daily Mail not have a front page spread calling Chris Gotke the devil incarnate?

Or, shock horror, were airshows regulated properly and safely before, during and after Shoreham 2015?

Well, if they want it, you've just supplied the base material for a Mail Online story........

[MRTT]

A great shame to see that OW has gone the same way as I suspect many other venues this year, hate to think what Duxford will be like...