Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

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CJS
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by CJS »

rdchawk wrote:
Wed 18 May 2022, 8:15 am
Why does the cynic in me think this is a cost cutting exercise? Also has Lingy stopped answering their calls?
Ultimately, my guess is the 7 ship will become the norm. Whether this is deliberate to bring that about sooner I doubt, but it might be an 'easy' way to do it ahead of schedule.

Presumably the 2 extra aircraft to make the flypasts 9-ship will be Reds 10 and 11?
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by Tommy »

It would be a bit weird, but it’s feasible, I suppose. Might extend the life of the team as a whole if they’re using fewer machines.

I wonder just how much cost would be saved, though. Either keep the team or scrap it if cost is that much of an issue, anything half-arsed seems inefficient to me. A seven jet team rather than a nine jet team still has seven pilots, a whole contingent of ground crew, merchandise, vehicles, travel, accommodation, fuel costs, and a whole host of other things I haven’t event thought of, I’m sure.

If they’re that strapped, then they’ll axe (or more likely sell-off) the team entirely. Same with the BBMF.

People said that the Reds will be scrapped several times over the years, and it hasn’t happened. Personally, I can’t see it at the moment, but maybe it’ll be quietly adopted, I don’t know.

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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by Tommy »

spellow3010 wrote:
Wed 18 May 2022, 7:09 am
In the space of two pages, this thread has probably become a microcosm as to why there is a perception that this forum is dying. It really isn't a friendly place. And although the Mods/Staffers enjoy their muli-coloured font screen names, I do not think there is anywhere near enough moderation of trolling or 'bigger d**k than you' one-upmanship posts.
A reminder that the report function exists, and that not one post has been reported.

If anything is against the rules, we take a view on moderation, including uncouth language with letters replaced with asterisks or similar grammar.

If users feel a post is against the rules, they should report it, and the mods can take a view.

I can’t speak for other mods/staff, but if there’s nothing against the rules, I’m not about to delete or otherwise moderate posts. People are perfectly allowed to express their opinions and others are perfectly entitled to disagree with such opinions.

can’t see any posts that break the rules (that doesn’t mean that there aren’t any - and that’s why the reporting function exists), but if you could point them out via the reporting function, I’d be obliged.

There are plenty of opinions I don’t like, or even think are ridiculous or stupid on here, but I’d never moderate them if they’re within the scope of the rules. I don’t think Mods should be editing or deleting posts to make the forum “in their image”. That’d pretty garbage. That that sure as hell *would* make the forum die.

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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by pbeardmore »

"If they’re that strapped, then they’ll axe (or more likely sell-off) the team entirely."

that's exactly why those in power prefer the salami, they get to make cuts without the fallout. Seven ship for this year is a perfect opportunity. Who will NOT visit an airshow? who will formally complain ? etc etc
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by spellow3010 »

Tommy wrote:
Wed 18 May 2022, 10:18 am
spellow3010 wrote:
Wed 18 May 2022, 7:09 am
In the space of two pages, this thread has probably become a microcosm as to why there is a perception that this forum is dying. It really isn't a friendly place. And although the Mods/Staffers enjoy their muli-coloured font screen names, I do not think there is anywhere near enough moderation of trolling or 'bigger d**k than you' one-upmanship posts.
A reminder that the report function exists, and that not one post has been reported.

If anything is against the rules, we take a view on moderation, including uncouth language with letters replaced with asterisks or similar grammar.

If users feel a post is against the rules, they should report it, and the mods can take a view.

I can’t speak for other mods/staff, but if there’s nothing against the rules, I’m not about to delete or otherwise moderate posts. People are perfectly allowed to express their opinions and others are perfectly entitled to disagree with such opinions.

can’t see any posts that break the rules (that doesn’t mean that there aren’t any - and that’s why the reporting function exists), but if you could point them out via the reporting function, I’d be obliged.

There are plenty of opinions I don’t like, or even think are ridiculous or stupid on here, but I’d never moderate them if they’re within the scope of the rules. I don’t think Mods should be editing or deleting posts to make the forum “in their image”. That’d pretty garbage. That that sure as hell *would* make the forum die.
That's fine Tommy - crystal clear nailing of colours to a metaphorical cross.

If you and the other staffers are happy for some potentially libellous remarks (I'm still not clear who has/has not got the facts) then that's on the Admin here. I shall step out of this thread shortly and continue to shake my head gently at the goings on. However acceptable you believe it all to be, it's not a great look, especially for prospective new members. Yeah, some might stick around and watch with a bag of popcorn... Good luck attracting new members, especially those of a different demographic.

I really am unlikely to push the 'report' button - I'm not a snitch. I'd actually prefer an 'ignore' function in all fairness. Works well on a football forum I frequent.
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by CJS »

We have an 'ignore function' already, surely? Just...ignore.

Or am I missing something?

Re: the 7 ship - it would mean an overhaul of the formations but at least with it being an odd number it would probably work wouldn't it?

I don't know who has left the team this year (or been booted off or whatever has happened) but if either were part of the synchro pair would that lead to that element having to be dropped, given how close we are to the start of their display season?
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by spellow3010 »

Thoughtful_Flyer wrote:
Wed 18 May 2022, 8:10 am
spellow3010 wrote:
Wed 18 May 2022, 7:09 am
In the space of two pages, this thread has probably become a microcosm as to why there is a perception that this forum is dying. It really isn't a friendly place. And although the Mods/Staffers enjoy their muli-coloured font screen names, I do not think there is anywhere near enough moderation of trolling or 'bigger d**k than you' one-upmanship posts.

Frankly, without the facts, some of the posts here should simply be deleted. I'm genuinely amazed that this thread has not been locked. There would be no hesitation but to lock a debate about some four engined Avro jet. So why has this helter-skelter of alleged malfeasant bravado not been pulled?

The forum is awash with snarky, sarcastic, sneering counter posts in thread after thread. It's often a circle jerk for the same old screen names. 'We know more than you...' and 'rivet counting pedantry.' Get over yourselves folks.

And no, I am not perfect. Never have been, and never will.
I was just wondering how the phrases I have highlighted were in keeping with the professional image you seem to crave?
A fair challenge. In my defence, I did state that I wasn't perfect and you will note that my post was not directly quoting any other particular member. I make no apology for it. That is my experience of this forum.

To be clear, I am not craving for any particular 'professional image.' It's impossible without moderation and it seems that is not happening any time soon, even with the presence of the content in this thread. It's hardly a welcoming environment, even for adults. And sometimes, people need a prod - me included. Attempting to smear over this by calling out snippets of my post achieves little in all honesty. I know I am not perfect.

Anyway, this is drifting the thread and perish the thought I should get banned for something so trivial.

I wish you all a good day, and look forward to seeing The Red Arrows this season. I shall miss them when they are gone.
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

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Why would you get banned? What rules have you broken?

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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by Wrexham Mackem »

The Reds have have 7-ship seasons before, as mentioned above. I personally can't see it being a lasting change and am confident they'll be back to 9 next season. Don't wish to jinx anything, but they seem to have simply been a victim of circumstance and have adapted.

I'm not sure just how much of a saving chopping two would be anyway. A small percentage of the overall budget.

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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by boff180 »

TBF apart from 2 posts from relative new comers, this thread has pretty much self moderated with those that were making idiotic posts were very quickly corrected.

The Reds are always an emotive subject and thanks to the tabloids, people think they knew what happened when in fact it was made up rubbish.

When we moderate we're said to be heavy handed, when we step back and only get involved when we have to, we're not moderating enough. We can't win.

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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by Blackbird »

"When we moderate we're said to be heavy handed, when we step back and only get involved when we have to, we're not moderating enough. We can't win."

Which probably means you've got it about right.

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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by Tommy »

It’s worth noting to everyone that the rules exist not just as a guide for moderators, but also so that people know where they stand.

If people act outside the rules, then they get a commensurate punishment, if they’re inside the rules, no matter how rubbish their opinion, then we don’t take action because people of all opinions need to be able to have the confidence that they can debate/discuss, robustly if necessary, their opinions.

If users think that anything it outside the scope of the rules, they can use the report function (mods can miss quite a lot as we’ve got our own lives to lead, too!)

What I’m certainly not prepared to do, as has happened in the past, is to moderate opinions I disagree with just because I don’t like them, nor would I expect any of the other moderators to do the same.

There are plenty of opinions on here that I disagree with. Some I feel may even be detrimental to the reputation of the forum. But as they’re within the rules, I wouldn’t dream of amending/deleting or banning the user for them, though.

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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by helired3 »

interesting they are flying a 7 ive just seen this on Twitter

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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by rdchawk »

I wonder if they're thinking can cover more events with 2x 7 ship teams and a couple spare? Have red arrows a and b teams.
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by rdchawk »

Scrap that, according to flightline, all displays have x9 now instead of x7.
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by Mike »

rdchawk wrote:
Tue 24 May 2022, 6:49 pm
Scrap that, according to flightline, all displays have x9 now instead of x7.
They are flying as a single seven-ship team for displays this year

Not two teams. Not a nine-ship, except for the occasional ceremonial flypast (such as the Queen’s Birthday Flypast, and perhaps the British GP)

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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by Dan213 »

rdchawk wrote:
Tue 24 May 2022, 6:44 pm
I wonder if they're thinking can cover more events with 2x 7 ship teams and a couple spare? Have red arrows a and b teams.
This will be in relation to them picking up certain other taskings from recently disbanded T1 units

See this tweet


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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by stonojnr »

they actually fly a display at the British GP, its not just a flypast, its not the full 20mins display obviously, but for some crazy reason the tv directors never want to show any of it and would rather have commentators shouting into microphones over jets asking inane questions of perplexed vip celebs and pretend its not happening instead.

but we always come back to the Red Arrows that they are the best recruiting tool the RAF have, and given the RAF spends money on adverts on tv and cinema trying to recruit people, clearly they still want people to sign up, plus they are an incredibly effective way of promoting the RAF & GB abroad, the north america tour was incredibly successful on that part especially, thats why they did it, so talk about disbanding the team I dont take that seriously, its an idea that people who only stare at spreadsheets promote within government and you cant measure the whole impact the Reds have via a spreadsheet,plus there are far easier measures to cut costs in Whitehall at the MoD than worrying about the Red Arrows, just sorting out procurement contracts for once would be something, slicing the number of planes in the formation doesnt really solve budget problems, even if it might help kick the can down the road of what to do with the Hawk in the future.

but I suspect for now, other than the press gossip, I wonder if C5 are carrying on with the documentary series this season, they might not have realised the significance yet of what theyve actually reported, as Im sure most people just assume its easier to replace pilots on the team, than it actually is, and as most coverage is given to flypasts, than displays,people might not immediately notice.

as for the book, well Id hope it would be an honest and open portrayal of events over the history of the team, but its the kind of the thing maybe a retired former wing commander of the team is better placed to be writing, than the current one, I reckon anyone looking for stories in it that fuel more of the gossip than simply a historical record, will probably be disappointed.

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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by Gt5500 »

stonojnr wrote:
Thu 26 May 2022, 10:45 am
, but for some crazy reason the tv directors never want to show any of it
Maybe because the crazy director is making a show about F1 not aeroplanes?

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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by FarnboroJohn »

Gt5500 wrote:
Fri 27 May 2022, 3:45 pm
stonojnr wrote:
Thu 26 May 2022, 10:45 am
, but for some crazy reason the tv directors never want to show any of it
Maybe because the crazy director is making a show about F1 not aeroplanes?
Maybe, but in an atmosphere where celebrities on the pit lane get fawning attention I often think the point is being missed: F1 fans are speed-freak petrolheads and I suspect most would rather watch the Reds than some bling-behung celeb in sunglasses. Maybe an exception for Tom Cruise!

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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by Gt5500 »

FarnboroJohn wrote:
Fri 27 May 2022, 6:48 pm
Maybe, but in an atmosphere where celebrities on the pit lane get fawning attention I often think the point is being missed: F1 fans are speed-freak petrolheads
Don't think any point is being missed, just that you have a very narrow minded view about what type of people F1 fans are...
For the record I would much rather they showed the air displays rather than chatting to film stars and 'rap' stars but I'm open minded enough to realise a huge demographic of people watch F1. Moreover F1 is a business funded largely by sponsorship so naturally the teams will push for stars to get airtime to promote their sponsors, we may not like it but that's just how it is.

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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by FarnboroJohn »

Gt5500 wrote:
Sat 28 May 2022, 3:06 pm
FarnboroJohn wrote:
Fri 27 May 2022, 6:48 pm
Maybe, but in an atmosphere where celebrities on the pit lane get fawning attention I often think the point is being missed: F1 fans are speed-freak petrolheads
Don't think any point is being missed, just that you have a very narrow minded view about what type of people F1 fans are...
For the record I would much rather they showed the air displays rather than chatting to film stars and 'rap' stars but I'm open minded enough to realise a huge demographic of people watch F1. Moreover F1 is a business funded largely by sponsorship so naturally the teams will push for stars to get airtime to promote their sponsors, we may not like it but that's just how it is.
Not really, as the fans present get to watch the flypasts and displays laid on for them by people who suppose, as I do, that the F1 fans will enjoy them. It is a reasonable supposition that the F1 fans who spend money to go to the actual race are a bit keen on F1, so if F1 race organisers and providers of flypasts think F1 fans will most enjoy flypasts rather than, say, rappers, I tend to believe the same. Its not a huge step from that to supposing that the TV audience for the races is of the same ilk.

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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by C24 »

🇺🇦. 🌻

The good news is the announcement that they are due back in the UK today.

As a fan since Culdrose, 1966 I wish them ALL good fortune for this season.

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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by aviodromefriend »

Reds Rolling wrote:
Sat 14 May 2022, 7:20 pm
Bluebird Mike wrote:
Sat 14 May 2022, 6:05 pm
It will be interesting to see how honestly David Montenegro's forthcoming official history of the Reds will tackle events such as Kirsty and Ben...
A 'blow by blow' account you mean? :face_with_hand_over_mouth:

I'll be interested in reading about the time Monty flew his plane into Mike Ling's. Didn't seem to harm his career! :laughing:
Thoughtful_Flyer wrote:
Sat 14 May 2022, 12:05 pm
It seems to be felt that it is not possible / safe to bring in another pilot, however experienced, except possibly near the very start of training
Pablo O Grady came back at very short notice as Red 6 after the Synchro crash, and that was when they were Springhawk training.
Another thing that will probably not make that book: https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/new ... se-images/
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

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