RIAT ATC
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Re: RIAT ATC
Bloody good job today guys. It did sound challenging at times with the heat causing so many problems and the taxiway restrictions, but very well handled. I hope you are having a nice cold beer somewhere. Roll on 2023…
2024 shows: Abingdon, Cosford, Sywell, RIAT, Zeltweg with a couple of Duxford and Shutteworth shows thrown into the mix.
Re: RIAT ATC
Six safe days. Great job and see you all next year.
Re: RIAT ATC
So, its over for another year - hope you all enjoyed it as much as we did.
6 days of safe flying, with all the aircraft arriving without incident (save a single bird strike and some fuel priorities), over 20 hours of display flying delivered nearly to the minute, and a complex departure plan safely executed.
As good a static display as we have seen in recent years and a varied flying display which contained many "firsts", even for the long-timers.
If there are no other questions, we will sign off for 2022, write up our wash-up notes and start the plan for 2023.
6 days of safe flying, with all the aircraft arriving without incident (save a single bird strike and some fuel priorities), over 20 hours of display flying delivered nearly to the minute, and a complex departure plan safely executed.
As good a static display as we have seen in recent years and a varied flying display which contained many "firsts", even for the long-timers.
If there are no other questions, we will sign off for 2022, write up our wash-up notes and start the plan for 2023.
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- capercaillie
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Re: RIAT ATC
How's the gull doing?capercaillie wrote: ↑Sun 17 Jul 2022, 6:06 pmOn that and realising how busy everyone is, is there anybody watching the airfield for bird hazards. The gull circled several times low in front of the tower area before landing slap bang in the middle of the runway while the RSV F-2000 was displaying and it still landed with a large and potentially damaging hazard ready to go through an intake in plain sight. Just wondering?
Re: RIAT ATC
From the general discussion thread…
Just a quick response to the ‘helicopter departing away from the airfield’ issue.
As anyone who has flown recently on holiday or business, there are a significant number of flow regulations in various airspace sectors around Europe (caused by the situation in Ukraine, ATC staff shortages and other reasons). There were many CTOTs (calculated take off times) for our IFR GAT (General Air Traffic - those using the civilian ATC/airways systems) departures yesterday. A few missed their CTOTs and some had over an hour delay once a new CTOT was issued. I’ve never seen so many CTOTs for RIAT departures.
There were also quite a few flight plan issues causing delays to aircraft that otherwise could have departed and some of these were taxiing out when the problems surfaced.
A significant number of departures had temperature issues, and had told us (or had told Flight Ops and they told us via phone) that they only had x minutes once engines running to depart.
Others had operational taskings that afternoon/evening so needed to be away quickly.
In this heat, when there are those pressures, added to some aircraft aborting take off or cancelling taxi out due to technical problems (thereby blocking in other aircraft who are actually ready to go and possibly already engines running), to use up another one or two minutes to fly a helicopter down the runway sadly isn’t our priority. We do understand the desire (as we’ve said many of us are keen photographers), but we have to have to think of all the other aircraft waiting to go, especially in this heat, who would be watching their departures being delayed when the helicopter could get airborne and depart away from the airfield very quickly.
Just a quick response to the ‘helicopter departing away from the airfield’ issue.
As anyone who has flown recently on holiday or business, there are a significant number of flow regulations in various airspace sectors around Europe (caused by the situation in Ukraine, ATC staff shortages and other reasons). There were many CTOTs (calculated take off times) for our IFR GAT (General Air Traffic - those using the civilian ATC/airways systems) departures yesterday. A few missed their CTOTs and some had over an hour delay once a new CTOT was issued. I’ve never seen so many CTOTs for RIAT departures.
There were also quite a few flight plan issues causing delays to aircraft that otherwise could have departed and some of these were taxiing out when the problems surfaced.
A significant number of departures had temperature issues, and had told us (or had told Flight Ops and they told us via phone) that they only had x minutes once engines running to depart.
Others had operational taskings that afternoon/evening so needed to be away quickly.
In this heat, when there are those pressures, added to some aircraft aborting take off or cancelling taxi out due to technical problems (thereby blocking in other aircraft who are actually ready to go and possibly already engines running), to use up another one or two minutes to fly a helicopter down the runway sadly isn’t our priority. We do understand the desire (as we’ve said many of us are keen photographers), but we have to have to think of all the other aircraft waiting to go, especially in this heat, who would be watching their departures being delayed when the helicopter could get airborne and depart away from the airfield very quickly.
Last edited by RIAT ATC on Tue 19 Jul 2022, 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: RIAT ATC
This thread has been so insightful over the last few weeks. Thanks to Adam for all the updates and info, I think it's given most (if not all) of us some fascinating peeks into how the show is put together.
Buy the sky and sell the sky and lift your arms up to the sky and ask the sky"
Re: RIAT ATC
Thanks Chris, but a few of us post here under this name, I wouldn’t want to take all the credit!
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Re: RIAT ATC
Excellent info thanks
Re: RIAT ATC
Excellent work chaps, both for the run-up and show, and also for taking the time to keep us so well informed on here. It was all very much appreciated.
Re: RIAT ATC
Overall, great work, guys. Some of the helicopters departing from each end were frustrating but I do get it. Your efforts during arrivals to get most of the gems down west were very much noted.
Additionally, I have absolutely loved reading these posts in this thread. It’s an awesome look behind the scenes and really informative and helps our understanding of just how massive an undertaking it all is.
Ultimately, you helped deliver a safe, spectacular, and on-time event. And one returning after a hiatus.
Massive congratulations, all - and thank you for the transparency/behind the scenes info.
Additionally, I have absolutely loved reading these posts in this thread. It’s an awesome look behind the scenes and really informative and helps our understanding of just how massive an undertaking it all is.
Ultimately, you helped deliver a safe, spectacular, and on-time event. And one returning after a hiatus.
Massive congratulations, all - and thank you for the transparency/behind the scenes info.
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Re: RIAT ATC
Thanks everyone.
It’s a team effort.
In the tower we also have the Flying Display Directors for the displays, and much of the arrival traffic before the weekend, and of course the Flying Control Committee just in front of us.
I know it wasn’t meant in this way, but our team is a mix of male and female .
We’re all recovering today on days off or leave. We require two days at least before and after the show where we cannot control at our home units to ensure we comply with CAA fatigue risk management rules. I have primarily an ‘office job’ so I’m working from home today, then will be in work, but not controlling, tomorrow. I’ve got my annual controlling competency exam on Thursday where I need to remember to say ‘Heathrow’ and not get annoyed at how normal the flying is….
We’re all working on our after action reports, and these will be fed up to RIAT for lessons learned. The ATC team management will get together virtually for a catch up in a few weeks to go over the show and how we might improve things for next year.
It’s a team effort.
In the tower we also have the Flying Display Directors for the displays, and much of the arrival traffic before the weekend, and of course the Flying Control Committee just in front of us.
I know it wasn’t meant in this way, but our team is a mix of male and female .
We’re all recovering today on days off or leave. We require two days at least before and after the show where we cannot control at our home units to ensure we comply with CAA fatigue risk management rules. I have primarily an ‘office job’ so I’m working from home today, then will be in work, but not controlling, tomorrow. I’ve got my annual controlling competency exam on Thursday where I need to remember to say ‘Heathrow’ and not get annoyed at how normal the flying is….
We’re all working on our after action reports, and these will be fed up to RIAT for lessons learned. The ATC team management will get together virtually for a catch up in a few weeks to go over the show and how we might improve things for next year.
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Re: RIAT ATC
Dispatched by the Bird Scaring Unit I'm afraid.capercaillie wrote: ↑Tue 19 Jul 2022, 8:59 amHow's the gull doing?capercaillie wrote: ↑Sun 17 Jul 2022, 6:06 pmOn that and realising how busy everyone is, is there anybody watching the airfield for bird hazards. The gull circled several times low in front of the tower area before landing slap bang in the middle of the runway while the RSV F-2000 was displaying and it still landed with a large and potentially damaging hazard ready to go through an intake in plain sight. Just wondering?
In response to your earlier question about birds - we do have a "Scarecrow" vehicle who patrols the whole area constantly during the display, but its a big runway. We do keep eyes on from the Tower, and called in a couple of red kites, and the flock of geese passing the end of the Chinook during the end of its display were watched very carefully - that would have possibly meant a "termination" for a fast jet display, as they were at display centre.
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Re: RIAT ATC
I thought the geese kept a good formation with multiple dynamic changes, but I noticed they had been missed off the flying list.
As a matter of interest which a/c had the birdstrike?
As a matter of interest which a/c had the birdstrike?
(Mark Twain: There are lies, there are damn lies and then there are statistics)
Re: RIAT ATC
One of the Qatari Hawks had a bird strike on the canopy whilst breaking into the circuit on Wednesday, but landed without incident.
The bird recovered on Saturday was after the Italian Typhoon display, but he did not report any strike on the RTF.
The bird recovered on Saturday was after the Italian Typhoon display, but he did not report any strike on the RTF.
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- HeyfordDave111
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- capercaillie
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Re: RIAT ATC
The Italian RSV Typhoon's wing hit a Lesser Black-backed Gull that decided of all places to sit in the middle of the runway during its display, as the Typhoon was rolling in, it attempted to take off and immediately collapsed back on to the runway when it got hit, and just sat there. The Spanish Hornet taxied past it or over it and then it was recovered by one of the follow me vehicles before the Hornet display after someone in FRIAT called it in.
Re: RIAT ATC
Thanks for all the hard work to bring us the show, it can't be easy.
I think everybody would have liked to have seen the CH-53, but I know that in the stand I have to accept that I may not catch the helicopters departing.
Just a quick query - do slow moving, light aircraft "clog up" the departures? I noticed that there were some long pauses whilst faster aircraft were sat lined up, (I presume) waiting for these slower ones to clear the airspace. Or does it not really work like that?
I think everybody would have liked to have seen the CH-53, but I know that in the stand I have to accept that I may not catch the helicopters departing.
Just a quick query - do slow moving, light aircraft "clog up" the departures? I noticed that there were some long pauses whilst faster aircraft were sat lined up, (I presume) waiting for these slower ones to clear the airspace. Or does it not really work like that?
Re: RIAT ATC
Whilst the mix of types does slow things down a bit, as most depart low level VFR, we get them out of the way quickly …. There are more delays waiting turbulent wake separation - which is 3 minutes for intersection or opposite direction departures when a light aircraft follows a higher “wake category”.
The main reason for aircraft being held on the runway was the delay in getting a “release” from Brize, but that was often caused by issues down route - the Austrians for example sat on the runway due a late issue assoc with their flight plan - eventually we had to get them off the runway and shut them down whilst it was sorted.
The Greeks were being held over Marham due to issues getting them into French airspace - at one time it looked as though they might need to divert back!
There is a lot going on in the background which is not obvious to the airfield observer….
The main reason for aircraft being held on the runway was the delay in getting a “release” from Brize, but that was often caused by issues down route - the Austrians for example sat on the runway due a late issue assoc with their flight plan - eventually we had to get them off the runway and shut them down whilst it was sorted.
The Greeks were being held over Marham due to issues getting them into French airspace - at one time it looked as though they might need to divert back!
There is a lot going on in the background which is not obvious to the airfield observer….
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Re: RIAT ATC
Thank you for that response! It's all very interesting to hear about as it's not something I know anything about. The context is brilliant.RIAT ATC wrote: ↑Wed 20 Jul 2022, 7:31 amWhilst the mix of types does slow things down a bit, as most depart low level VFR, we get them out of the way quickly …. There are more delays waiting turbulent wake separation - which is 3 minutes for intersection or opposite direction departures when a light aircraft follows a higher “wake category”.
The main reason for aircraft being held on the runway was the delay in getting a “release” from Brize, but that was often caused by issues down route - the Austrians for example sat on the runway due a late issue assoc with their flight plan - eventually we had to get them off the runway and shut them down whilst it was sorted.
The Greeks were being held over Marham due to issues getting them into French airspace - at one time it looked as though they might need to divert back!
There is a lot going on in the background which is not obvious to the airfield observer….
Great show, I can't wait for the next one.
Re: RIAT ATC
One question I had was why does everything need a follow me car even for the shortest distances? Down at the western end we were puzzled why pilots that had just taxied in from a runway would later on need a car to lead them to and from a parking spot a few metres from it.
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Re: RIAT ATC
Part of our risk mitigation strategy, they're not just for the pilot to follow, the vehicle driver is also keeping a keen lookout for hazards to that aircraft, such as FOD or rogue vehicles or pedestrians on the taxiway.Wissam24 wrote: ↑Wed 20 Jul 2022, 4:19 pmOne question I had was why does everything need a follow me car even for the shortest distances? Down at the western end we were puzzled why pilots that had just taxied in from a runway would later on need a car to lead them to and from a parking spot a few metres from it.
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Re: RIAT ATC
Another question to ask if I may. Why are the taxiways renamed for the show and not left as the original airfield designations?
Re: RIAT ATC
The holding point layout at RAF Fairford in "non RIAT mode" is tricky. On the USAF charts, the Northern taxiway is the "Alpha taxiway", and has two Alpha holding points, same with the "Bravo taxiway" on the Southside. This presents an issue, in that transmitting "vacate at Alpha" is ambiguous and the airfield does have both holds signed merely as "A" on the airfield.
Our civilian holding point nomenclature is to label the holds starting with Alpha and going through the alphabet along the runway - which is the signage you see at Fairford in Air Tattoo mode.
This has been the holding point layout since any of us can remember (that's going back to 1998), and it has served us well. The airfield layout, including "RIAT holds and aprons" is sent out to all visiting aircraft, so they should be briefed. However, we do see a small number of aircraft obviously using the USAF charts and questioning their taxi routing - most are caught with "vacate next left/right" and there is bespoke signage, which we put out every year ahead of the Wednesday.
That said, we do review this decision regularly, but as we would need to re-designate the Alpha & Bravo holds anyway, as "Alpha East" or "Bravo West" to avoid confusion, we will stick with the system that works for us. The benefits outweigh the odd aircraft that is using the wrong plates.
Our civilian holding point nomenclature is to label the holds starting with Alpha and going through the alphabet along the runway - which is the signage you see at Fairford in Air Tattoo mode.
This has been the holding point layout since any of us can remember (that's going back to 1998), and it has served us well. The airfield layout, including "RIAT holds and aprons" is sent out to all visiting aircraft, so they should be briefed. However, we do see a small number of aircraft obviously using the USAF charts and questioning their taxi routing - most are caught with "vacate next left/right" and there is bespoke signage, which we put out every year ahead of the Wednesday.
That said, we do review this decision regularly, but as we would need to re-designate the Alpha & Bravo holds anyway, as "Alpha East" or "Bravo West" to avoid confusion, we will stick with the system that works for us. The benefits outweigh the odd aircraft that is using the wrong plates.
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Re: RIAT ATC
Very interesting and makes complete sense! Thanks for the reply.