Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

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Brevet Cable
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by Brevet Cable »

Can't blame Wigstone for the RAFAT, though, other than continuing his predecessors' repeated failures to grip them and to cover up / sweep under the carpet the findings of all the adverse reports & Inquiries.
The rot set in with them a long time ago.
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by McG »

The info now in the public domain was likely known to those in the RAF/MoD at the time the tour to Bahrain was announced. Therefore it seems to be awfully poor judgement to sign off on such a tour.


https://www.raf.mod.uk/news/articles/re ... irst-time/

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starbuck
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by starbuck »

McG wrote:
Thu 25 Aug 2022, 8:37 am
The info now in the public domain was likely known to those in the RAF/MoD at the time the tour to Bahrain was announced. Therefore it seems to be awfully poor judgement to sign off on such a tour.


https://www.raf.mod.uk/news/articles/re ... irst-time/
I can't see that claims of misogynistic behaviour is going to ruffle too many feathers in a country like Bahrain to be honest

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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by Thoughtful_Flyer »

starbuck wrote:
Thu 25 Aug 2022, 10:38 am
McG wrote:
Thu 25 Aug 2022, 8:37 am
The info now in the public domain was likely known to those in the RAF/MoD at the time the tour to Bahrain was announced. Therefore it seems to be awfully poor judgement to sign off on such a tour.


https://www.raf.mod.uk/news/articles/re ... irst-time/
I can't see that claims of misogynistic behaviour is going to ruffle too many feathers in a country like Bahrain to be honest
Not really the point is it?

More likely the reason for the foot dragging of the "inquiry". However, sadly I expect all they are really deciding is how many coats of whitewash to apply!

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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by GeeRam »

speedbird2639 wrote:
Mon 15 Aug 2022, 12:34 pm
From the reports being made it certainly seems that the Reds operation is developing into some sort of Alpha male 'clique' which is being headed by absentee managers/ commanders who seem oblivious to it all.

A cynical person might even suggest they are encouraging it to hasten the windings up of the reds as an option.

A few years ago they had a really 'dynamic' display, then they lapsed back to their 'normal' slightly wilted display and then this year we have this absolute farce which just makes them look like a national embarrassment.

Maybe its time to 'pull the plug'.
I must admit, the cynic in me is wondering if the drop to 7, and other associated reasons for that, plus all this other bad press, is a deliberate prelude to the winding up of the Reds, so as to damper the public 'outcry' about what has to be an inevitable end to the Reds sooner rather than later.

IMHO, the Reds should have been wound up after their 50th anniversary year.
The Reds were the elite of the RAF, in that they were the elite of the CFS Instructors.

The CFS as it was effectively ceased to exist when MFTS was contractorised, and the worlds best airforce flying training system was killed off. The Reds are now basically detached front pilots flying shagged out Hawk T1's which are now not even in regular RAF service other than with the Reds. Its therefore perhaps not a surprise that there are stories of the Red's personnel acting no different to any other squadron behavior, as they would have likely only ever served on squadrons, as opposed to how Reds pilots were selected in decades past.

Several decades of self-serving VSO's have overseen the gradual decimation of the RAF.

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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by 106500 »

So how’s that going to look for The RAF and Britain? After viewing tremendous displays at RIAT by the Italians and Koreans, are we really going to let the rubbishy tabloid press stir up anti RAF sentiment with cries of so called ‘Woke’ behaviour and similar (I doubt many really understand what it is supposed to mean!) leading to scrapping of the RAFAT? I believe you will find that a rejuvenated and motivated Reds team next year will arise - Ok the Hawk T1 is dated but there must be plenty of spare airframes and spares around to keep them flying for the foreseeable future. Beware of media sensationalism and stick to facts I say!

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Brevet Cable
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by Brevet Cable »

:star_struck:
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by Thoughtful_Flyer »

106500 wrote:
Fri 26 Aug 2022, 7:41 am
So how’s that going to look for The RAF and Britain? After viewing tremendous displays at RIAT by the Italians and Koreans, are we really going to let the rubbishy tabloid press stir up anti RAF sentiment with cries of so called ‘Woke’ behaviour and similar (I doubt many really understand what it is supposed to mean!) leading to scrapping of the RAFAT? I believe you will find that a rejuvenated and motivated Reds team next year will arise - Ok the Hawk T1 is dated but there must be plenty of spare airframes and spares around to keep them flying for the foreseeable future. Beware of media sensationalism and stick to facts I say!
Well, I hope they do get their act together and continue for as long as the Hawks remain safe and viable. However there is a great deal involved in keeping older fast jets in A1 condition. It not like your lawnmower where you can bodge something together from spares in the shed or another broken machine bought from the council tip!

As others on here have said, the Reds displays have looked tired and sometimes ragged for years. Frankly, certainly recently, the "Best in the world" jingoism regularly trotted out flatters them to say the least. In the past they were certainly a contender for that title but not now.

I see, in addition to the BBC Reds article mentioned earlier in this thread, the BBC also have another trouble and strife piece about the RAF today. Not a good look at all.

Finally, "stick to the facts" you say. But how many people truly have the "facts"? I certainly don't believe that this inquiry will publish anything like the full facts. Anything inconvenient will be swept under the carpet as it always is.

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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by Thoughtful_Flyer »

I see (3.45pm Friday) that it has just been announced in the last hour that the Reds have cancelled their appearance at the Sidmouth airshow due to "a number of engineering issues". :rolling_eyes:

As long as they haven't engineered another headline grabbing scandal......

Also not at Exeter Airport.

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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by Brevet Cable »

Far be it for me to be controversial ( :stuck_out_tongue: ) but this would be the perfect time to do 2 things.....
Civilianise both the RAFAT & BBMF ! :open_mouth:

The Army got rid of the Royal Signals' White Helmets motorcycle display team several years ago & disbanded the AHAF, placing all the aircraft on the civil register.
The RNHF did the same with it's aircraft.

Why should the BBMF be any different?
And it's already been suggested many times over the years that RAFAT should be part of BAE Systems & used as an advertising tool for them.
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by centaurus18 »

106500 wrote:
Fri 26 Aug 2022, 7:41 am
I believe you will find that a rejuvenated and motivated Reds team next year will arise - Ok the Hawk T1 is dated but there must be plenty of spare airframes and spares around to keep them flying for the foreseeable future. Beware of media sensationalism and stick to facts I say!
Yep. Plenty of spares now that they have cut RAF 1O0 Squadron, and forced the disbandment of the Fleet Air Arm's 736 Naval Air Squadron.
These two Units weren't doing anywhere near enough to even compete with the Reds' role...
Last edited by centaurus18 on Fri 26 Aug 2022, 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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aviodromefriend
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by aviodromefriend »

McG wrote:
Thu 25 Aug 2022, 8:37 am
The info now in the public domain was likely known to those in the RAF/MoD at the time the tour to Bahrain was announced. Therefore it seems to be awfully poor judgement to sign off on such a tour.


https://www.raf.mod.uk/news/articles/re ... irst-time/
The Bahraini might have thought that the Reds were one of the teams flying in the afternoon.
A weather forecast is a forecast and just that

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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by wdg »

Thoughtful_Flyer wrote:
Fri 26 Aug 2022, 2:49 pm
I see (3.45pm Friday) that it has just been announced in the last hour that the Reds have cancelled their appearance at the Sidmouth airshow due to "a number of engineering issues". :rolling_eyes:

As long as they haven't engineered another headline grabbing scandal......

Also not at Exeter Airport.
Allegedly due to another aircraft going tech, in addition to the one that failed to make a show (Clacton?) yesterday.

...and if anyone believes that (presumably the spares/Red 10's jet also just happened to break down this week) then you'll be glad to hear the RAF will be able to re-equip the squadron with nine fully-aerobatic sus domesticus (spray-painted red, of course) for the rest of the season.
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by Reds Rolling »

They're down to a 7 ship, and they can't even keep seven aircraft available? Just as well they're not trying to put nine up every display!

What a sad write-off this season has been.

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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by 5944 »

I've spent the last week in Wales with the family and we'd booked an extra night in Rhyl and planned to go to the air show tomorrow. Instead we've binned it off and drove home this morning. A poor lineup combined with an iffy forecast (7 acts over 3 1/2 hours is painful, especially if you're trying to keep a five year old entertained on the beach), plus who knows if the Reds will even bother showing up. Better to save the £300 that it would've cost us and go home early.

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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by C24 »

🇺🇦 🌻 👻

FYI


The head of the Royal Air Force has promised to address concerns raised about the service's culture "as a priority".

The RAF has been at the centre of a series of media reports in recent weeks, including accusations of misogyny, bullying and sexual harassment within the Red Arrows.

Chief of the Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal Sir Mike Wigston, has written a letter to personnel, stating there are "legitimate questions being asked".

The service chief said those with concerns, including concerns that could expose the RAF to "significant criticism or harm" should go through a confidential defence helpline or the RAF Police if they do not feel they can raise the issue through the chain of command.

Alongside these issues, reports that the air force looked to prioritise certain demographics over white men in its recruitment and diversity strategy will be addressed at a board meeting early next month.

The note to personnel said the "quality" of "new entrants" has not suffered due to "attempts to widen" recruiting.

The full letter reads: "You will be well aware of the ongoing focus on the Royal Air Force in the media and on social media, on a number of topics, over the past weeks. I am acutely conscious that the coverage affects us all – whether regular, reserve, civil servant, or contractor – as well as our families and loved ones; and there are legitimate questions being asked which I am determined we will address as a priority.

"I am hugely proud of the passion and commitment I see from you each and every day across all our operational tasks and supporting activity. We have a well-earned reputation for excellence in all that we do to protect the UK, and I, like you, cherish that reputation dearly.

"It is right that when issues are raised we take swift action to address them, and we continue to strive for an open and honest reporting culture within the service. I thank all of you for the part you play in that, our commanders and line managers especially. If you have a concern about an issue or risk that you believe contravenes the values and standards of the service or the Civil Service Code, or exposes the organisation to significant criticism or harm, I encourage you to raise it through the correct channels, your chain of command in the first instance or, if you feel unable to do so for any reason, via the MOD’s confidential helpline or the RAF Police.

"Recent news coverage has addressed our values and standards, our culture and behaviours, and our determination to meet the MOD's level of ambition for diversity. All of this will be the focus of an Air Force Board meeting on 7 September. As a leadership team, we are clear that unacceptable behaviours have no place in our service. We also remain committed to increasing our diversity and I can confirm categorically that neither our operational effectiveness, nor the quality of our new entrants has suffered as a result of our attempts to widen our recruiting from across society.

"We continue to deliver against every operational task asked of us by the government; the RAF is deployed extensively, operationally active, and is indisputably lethal, and nothing in that regard has been or ever will be compromised by our drive to attract and recruit people from the widest pool of talent in the UK workforce.

"We play a critical role in the security and defence of the UK and our allies, and that is where our primary effort must always be. I would ask that commanders and line managers at all levels continue to support your teams, and to ensure nobody feels isolated or marginalised. It is essential now more than ever that we pull together and focus on our essential purpose: global air and space power to protect our nation."

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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by Thoughtful_Flyer »

Well yes, fine words. Whether you believe that much, if anything, will actually happen is another matter.

On the most recent cancellation, if it is really due to exceptional engineering difficulties then that in itself is bad enough considering that they are only having to find 7 serviceable aircraft for each display this year. I gather that on their last display on six appeared but I don't know the reason. Maybe skilled engineers are in as short supply as pilots?

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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by mbowde »

Just a guess, but re the “engineering issues” with the T/M flying the spare jet (Red 10 or is that Red 8 this year??) it doesn’t matter if it’s a “normal” year (9+1) or this year (7+1) if one of the display kites and the “spare” go tech then that effectively makes them an 8 ship display or a 6 ship display. So re yesterday if they’d deployed to Exeter with 6 (serviceable) jets and then had a tech issue there, they’d end up with U/S jets all over the country, not to mention the pilots and blues also stuck miles from base. Let’s see what happens today……..

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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by Thoughtful_Flyer »

Earlier this morning I saw a Tweet from Red 10, timed around midnight, with a photo of the airbrake on one of the jets being worked on "through the night" or words to that effect.

However, having looked at his Tweets this morning it seems to have gone, the most recent being the Tweet from yesterday say that they can't display at Sidmouth.

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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by hunterxf382 »

Thoughtful_Flyer wrote:
Sat 27 Aug 2022, 9:09 am
Earlier this morning I saw a Tweet from Red 10, timed around midnight, with a photo of the airbrake on one of the jets being worked on "through the night" or words to that effect.

However, having looked at his Tweets this morning it seems to have gone, the most recent being the Tweet from yesterday say that they can't display at Sidmouth.

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Thoughtful_Flyer
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by Thoughtful_Flyer »

hunterxf382 wrote:
Sat 27 Aug 2022, 9:23 am
Thoughtful_Flyer wrote:
Sat 27 Aug 2022, 9:09 am
Earlier this morning I saw a Tweet from Red 10, timed around midnight, with a photo of the airbrake on one of the jets being worked on "through the night" or words to that effect.

However, having looked at his Tweets this morning it seems to have gone, the most recent being the Tweet from yesterday say that they can't display at Sidmouth.

Thanks, at least I wasn't dreaming it. I still don't see it if I go directly to Red10's Twitter feed (or whatever it is called). Maybe it was a reply he posted to somebody else? All to complicated for me........

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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by cg_341 »

Try going to "tweets & replies".

Because he's started the tweet by mentioning an account Twitter considers it a reply.

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Brevet Cable
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by Brevet Cable »

Tracking sites showing at least 2 RAFAT up, currently 1 abeam Birmingham & the other abeam Peterborough
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by Brevet Cable »

Hmm....
The one which was showing abeam Birmingham has just done a flypast over Cardiff City ( and from the comms it sounded like more than one aircraft ) and is now heading North
The other aircraft which was abeam Peterborough is now showing as REDARROW 4 & is now abeam Birmingham
Presume the 2 flights are going to join up
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022

Post by GeeRam »

Brevet Cable wrote:
Fri 26 Aug 2022, 3:24 pm
Far be it for me to be controversial ( :stuck_out_tongue: ) but this would be the perfect time to do 2 things.....
Civilianise both the RAFAT & BBMF ! :open_mouth:
A lot of the big problems of the RAF today is too much of it has already been civilianised!!
Brevet Cable wrote:
Fri 26 Aug 2022, 3:24 pm
The Army got rid of the Royal Signals' White Helmets motorcycle display team several years ago & disbanded the AHAF, placing all the aircraft on the civil register.
The RNHF did the same with it's aircraft.

Why should the BBMF be any different?
The BBMF is different because it was the RAF's choice for it MOD funded historic section. Some years ago the MOD said the Army, Navy & RAF could have one, and only one public funded historic display element.
The Army chose the Tank Musuem at Bovy (hence the AHAF and White Helmets going, although there were other reasons for the White Helmets ending as well)
The Royal Navy chose HMS Victory, hence the RNHF going, and the RAF chose the BBMF.......so that's why its different.

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