RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

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capercaillie
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by capercaillie »

I think the RAF display is much improved this year with lots more energy, a far better display than the Italian for example. Agreed it is fairly ghastly in looks however, would have probably been better applied to a standard jet.

The Austrians seemed to have gone down very well with the masses on here, but it was just two jets wheeling around for 10 minutes, no aeros so hardly comparable. Fun but it was hardly Voltige Victor.
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capercaillie
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by capercaillie »

mavvymoo wrote:
Tue 19 Jul 2022, 11:32 am
roger wrote:
Tue 19 Jul 2022, 11:27 am
mavvymoo wrote:
Tue 19 Jul 2022, 11:15 am
roger wrote:
Tue 19 Jul 2022, 9:21 am
FTS wrote:
Mon 18 Jul 2022, 8:58 pm
FGR2 wrote:
Mon 18 Jul 2022, 8:32 pm
Kip Casper wrote:
Mon 18 Jul 2022, 8:16 pm
When did the F86 depart? Didn’t see it today.

Sore point :( They had switched from 09 to 27, so I sat at P&V West for ages waiting for it, only to see it join at the northern intersection and take off on 09.

I am guessing about 2pm.
I had similar disappointment sat in FRIAT, watching the Sea Stallion lift from the west end and disappear into the distance. At least I got it arriving.
I also didn't see the Sea Stallion depart - maybe that's because there wasn't a Sea Stallion at the show!
That big helicopter just to the left of the blue gate as you walked in was definitely calling itself a Sea Stallion - or at least the big information board in front of it did 👍🏼
Thanks - good to learn something new every day. I always thought only the USMC ones were "Sea Stallions".
No. Thank you! I didn’t realise they were named differently by various arms 👍🏼
Some countries adopt names, other don't but at the end of the day whether the Germans adopted it or not it is in essence a Sea Stallion.
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Meep
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Meep »

capercaillie wrote:
Tue 19 Jul 2022, 12:43 pm
I think the RAF display is much improved this year with lots more energy, a far better display than the Italian for example. Agreed it is fairly ghastly in looks however, would have probably been better applied to a standard jet.

The Austrians seemed to have gone down very well with the masses on here, but it was just two jets wheeling around for 10 minutes, no aeros so hardly comparable. Fun but it was hardly Voltige Victor.
It highlights that you need more than just technical quality to impress people. The Austrian display brought more meaning and context, and whilst less of a technical feat was far more entertaining.

It's the issue the reds have, they might be technically very good, but they are boring compared to other major display teams because the overall package is less entertaining, when you include the dreadful commentary etc. Technical ability might have been enough previously, but no more, and thats why the reds have dropped from being a top tier must see display team to being significantly behind the likes of the Frecce

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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Mike »

Meep wrote:
Tue 19 Jul 2022, 1:38 pm
...thats why the reds have dropped from being a top tier must see display team to being significantly behind the likes of the Frecce...
...and Baby Blue too!

Light Chop
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Light Chop »

There's no denying that the Reds have been outclassed by many (most?) other national teams for a number of years now, solely hanging on by legacy prestige. As a seven-ship, they were borderline poor. Technically sound yes; dynamic, interesting, innovative etc? No.

As mentioned above, the RAF Typhoon display is markedly better than previous iterations which were turgid copy and pastes of previous years.


(We won't mention the awful scheme though.)

jules48
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by jules48 »

Considering most of this was planned before the situation in the Ukraine not really sure why people are complaining at the lack of certain aircraft.And as for the FRIAT stand incidents it was worse then watching a football match at times with some of the behaviour.Surely stewards need to be on hand to remove people who are only there to cause trouble.It was hot,the seats are too small and people get annoyed but it was pretty disgusting.As for the displays cannot find anything to complain about and been going for 30 years.

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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by pbeardmore »

I must admit, based on this thread, not a good advert for potential new FRIAT members, sounds like a rugby scrum at times? Personally, it's nice to find your only "little corner" somewhere in the showground and take things from there. Trouble is, for some (not criticism) the photos become the focus (pardom the pun) rather than just chilling and enjoying a superb show
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by UKTopgun »

Yes I agree that the annual scrum amongst photographers at RIAT is distasteful. I used to photograph at shows then had an epiphany about 10 years ago... You miss 80% of a show with your eye stuck to a viewfinder all the time. Never taken any camera to any show since. I just watch superbly skilled aviators fly wonderful machines and love that for what it is. Even if I were to start shooting displays again, what could I produce that is different to the thousands of other peeps out on the line with a big lens? Not much in all probability.

My advice ... Leave your cameras at home, liberate yourself and just enjoy the fact you can watch these fabulous machines without having to jostle for position or upset others nearby trying to get a shot hundreds around you just got too 😀

binbrook87
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by binbrook87 »

UKTopgun wrote:
Tue 19 Jul 2022, 2:09 pm
Yes I agree that the annual scrum amongst photographers at RIAT is distasteful. I used to photograph at shows then had an epiphany about 10 years ago... You miss 80% of a show with your eye stuck to a viewfinder all the time. Never taken any camera to any show since. I just watch superbly skilled aviators fly wonderful machines and love that for what it is. Even if I were to start shooting displays again, what could I produce that is different to the thousands of other peeps out on the line with a big lens? Not much in all probability.

My advice ... Leave your cameras at home, liberate yourself and just enjoy the fact you can watch these fabulous machines without having to jostle for position or upset others nearby trying to get a shot hundreds around you just got too 😀
I agree with your last comments. I too used to be a manic photographer and half the time couldn't even recall half the shows because my eyes were fixed through a viewfinder. Today i mainly just take my bridge camera for the statics and then take a few photos during the show mainly take off or landing shots, with a little bit of video here and there...the rest of the time i just sit back and enjoy and i seem to appreciate it more. Plus you don't have to lug all that heavy gear around which is a bonus.

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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by iainpeden »

pbeardmore wrote:
Tue 19 Jul 2022, 1:54 pm
I must admit, based on this thread, not a good advert for potential new FRIAT members, sounds like a rugby scrum at times?
Just to counter that, I spent much of the 4 days in the FRIAT stand and saw (or heard) no problems or bad behaviour at all. People actually seemed calmed by the heat and more tolerant. There seemed to be more seats unused throughout the show (Jalfrezi where were you, should have been 2 rows down from me and I never saw your seat used?)and fewer people moving about. The only scrum I saw was on Monday when the line was out of the marquee waiting for the flying list; a bit of quick thinking by one of the volunteers to take a bundle out to pass to us in the queue rapidly sorted that out. The queues at the food vendors seemed more relaxed and the whole place gave off the vibe of thank goodness we’re back and what a great show.
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Tommy
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Tommy »

iainpeden wrote:
Tue 19 Jul 2022, 2:36 pm
(Jalfrezi where were you, should have been 2 rows down from me and I never saw your seat used?)
Mr Jalfrezi “arse-biscuités” was around, but mostly stayed on the grass with back to the stand for a bit of sun protection. I went down there a few times and it was quite nice, tbf.

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Tommy
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Tommy »

I don’t remember any FRIAT incidents at all. I’m fact, my own experience is that it was the most polite and cordial FRIATs of the last couple of shows.

There was only a call for someone to sit down once.

And once, I was the dude standing up, and got told off, but it was when I was halfway letting a dude with a little bit of mobility trouble past me to his seat, so I didn’t feel too guilty.

But yes, as always, there are some… “interesting character” in the stands. But everyone was having a great time so you can’t ask for more than that!

wdg
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by wdg »

Tommy wrote:
Tue 19 Jul 2022, 2:55 pm
I don’t remember any FRIAT incidents at all. I’m fact, my own experience is that it was the most polite and cordial FRIATs of the last couple of shows.

There was only a call for someone to sit down once.

And once, I was the dude standing up, and got told off, but it was when I was halfway letting a dude with a little bit of mobility trouble past me to his seat, so I didn’t feel too guilty.

But yes, as always, there are some… “interesting character” in the stands. But everyone was having a great time so you can’t ask for more than that!
I didn't see many (if any) people just standing, although it did feel like there were a lot more people moving around the grandstand during displays than in previous years. Could have used a reminder for people to wait at the top of the steps until there is a natural break.
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by duffspeed »

binbrook87 wrote:
Tue 19 Jul 2022, 2:23 pm
UKTopgun wrote:
Tue 19 Jul 2022, 2:09 pm
Yes I agree that the annual scrum amongst photographers at RIAT is distasteful. I used to photograph at shows then had an epiphany about 10 years ago... You miss 80% of a show with your eye stuck to a viewfinder all the time. Never taken any camera to any show since. I just watch superbly skilled aviators fly wonderful machines and love that for what it is. Even if I were to start shooting displays again, what could I produce that is different to the thousands of other peeps out on the line with a big lens? Not much in all probability.

My advice ... Leave your cameras at home, liberate yourself and just enjoy the fact you can watch these fabulous machines without having to jostle for position or upset others nearby trying to get a shot hundreds around you just got too 😀
I agree with your last comments. I too used to be a manic photographer and half the time couldn't even recall half the shows because my eyes were fixed through a viewfinder. Today i mainly just take my bridge camera for the statics and then take a few photos during the show mainly take off or landing shots, with a little bit of video here and there...the rest of the time i just sit back and enjoy and i seem to appreciate it more. Plus you don't have to lug all that heavy gear around which is a bonus.
I decided the camera on my phone was good enough this year so just used that for the static shots. The rest of the time, I just watched the action - the only flying pics I took were the Black Eagles/Red arrows flypast. Even with my bridge camera a few years ago, I spent far too much time reviewing my burst shots looking for the best few before trying to catch the next manoeuvre. Now I just sit close to show centre and soak it all up - although the hovering F-35B was a little on the loud side from there.

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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by bobby 1211 »

Image
This made me laugh too much 😂

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Tommy
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Tommy »

wdg wrote:
Tue 19 Jul 2022, 3:55 pm
Tommy wrote:
Tue 19 Jul 2022, 2:55 pm
I don’t remember any FRIAT incidents at all. I’m fact, my own experience is that it was the most polite and cordial FRIATs of the last couple of shows.

There was only a call for someone to sit down once.

And once, I was the dude standing up, and got told off, but it was when I was halfway letting a dude with a little bit of mobility trouble past me to his seat, so I didn’t feel too guilty.

But yes, as always, there are some… “interesting character” in the stands. But everyone was having a great time so you can’t ask for more than that!
I didn't see many (if any) people just standing, although it did feel like there were a lot more people moving around the grandstand during displays than in previous years. Could have used a reminder for people to wait at the top of the steps until there is a natural break.
Could have been the heat tbf. I was very regularly back and forth refilling the water bottle (and indeed, then going to the loo!).

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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by jalfrezi »

iainpeden wrote:
Tue 19 Jul 2022, 2:36 pm
pbeardmore wrote:
Tue 19 Jul 2022, 1:54 pm
I must admit, based on this thread, not a good advert for potential new FRIAT members, sounds like a rugby scrum at times?
Just to counter that, I spent much of the 4 days in the FRIAT stand and saw (or heard) no problems or bad behaviour at all. People actually seemed calmed by the heat and more tolerant. There seemed to be more seats unused throughout the show (Jalfrezi where were you, should have been 2 rows down from me and I never saw your seat used?)and fewer people moving about. The only scrum I saw was on Monday when the line was out of the marquee waiting for the flying list; a bit of quick thinking by one of the volunteers to take a bundle out to pass to us in the queue rapidly sorted that out. The queues at the food vendors seemed more relaxed and the whole place gave off the vibe of thank goodness we’re back and what a great show.
Yeah, I tend to move around, was in the Red end on Friday, front of FRIAT with Gordon (Skyflash) on Saturday, and then spent Sunday in Totterdown with Garf for something a bit different! I was in my seat for departures, well I moved down a row just to get a bit more space as there were some empty seats.....

My opinions of RIAT - really enjoyed the show. The static was immense and while the flying was a bit same old, same old, they did manage to get some rare helicopter displays which were cool to see. As for FRIAT, I'm still umming and ahhing about next year, it's a lot of money, and now with the new hangars the departure day doesn't have the same appeal for a photographer. I may just get normal tickets and maybe do one or two arrivals days down P&V West.

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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by tankbuster »

For those of us who don't want to commit to FRIAT it would be nice to have a P&V central for departures/arrivals. Presumably security wouldn't be an issue as it must be already in place for FRIAT in the stand/viewing village next door. Of course a premium price could be charged.
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by iainpeden »

The issue there is the need for the walking bus across an active apron. After about 8 30 until the FRIAT stand closes groups are escorted across when safe. The aim is every 20 minutes but there was a long delay yesterday while the fuel leak on the USAF Herc was fixed.
Add another enclosure and it would be a real problem.
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Vaporwave
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Vaporwave »

Long time lurker, first time poster.

I just wanted to add my thoughts on RIAT 2022 from Sunday.

This was my first RIAT since - I believe - 1994! I’ve been so desperate to go back for so long, but life kinda got in the way.
Eventually bought tickets all the way back in 2021 for the Sunday, and so I was going to Fairford for the first time in 28 years.

Firstly, I fully expected that post-Shoreham the planes would be mere specks in the distance, and the crowd line miles away from the action. So you guess my response when that first Typhoon took off what seemed about 20 foot away and almost burnt my face clean off my skull!

I loved all of the fast jets (yep, that’s my thing). Yes, there was a lot of repetition, but I still loved it; and let’s face it, there is nowhere near as many jets available as there were back in the 80s/90s, so their hands are kinda tied in that department.

Disappointed by the F35. One boring non afterburner pass. Though the ridiculously loud hover was directly in front of us (we were very lucky where we decided to sit). I could feel my eardrums peaking.

I must say that inverted roll from the F16 was superb. As was the dump and burn from the Gripen (not quite the F111, but still great to see). I also enjoyed the RAF Typhoon display. He really threw that noisy beast around.

The display teams were great on the whole. The Black Eagles? Wow! Ruddy awesome.
I haven’t seen the Red Arrows for about 20 years, and they were exactly the same but somehow worse. Kinda like seeing a band live that you loved as a kid, but now playing it safe, without any heart and soul, and have become completely stale in the process. They were showed up by every other display team there imho.

Genuine question… Since when have planes been able to fly over the crowd line? I couldn’t believe it when The Red Arrows flew directly over. Then BBMF and the Black Eagles followed suit!

I was sad that the Austrian Typhoons had to end their display early, as it seemed so imaginative and loud. Can’t be helped though.

I know I’m not the only one who was disappointed by the USAF only displaying the Osprey on their 75 year anniversary. I was hoping and praying for months and months that they’d announce a B-1B (hands down my favourite ever plane). Even a couple of Lakenheath F15’s and a Fairford-based U2 would’ve been nice. Fingers crossed for next year and more of a programme from them!

The organisation seemed very good and it sounds as though we struck very lucky to be in the green car park! In and out without any real drama.

Also, it definitely wasn’t as hot as IAT 89! There was absolutely no breeze or clouds back then whatsoever. We also had free water last weekend, and I remember lukewarm tubs filled with bottles that were £5 a piece in 1989, which, with inflation, is about the cost of MacBook Pro in 2022!

Definitely going next year! Sorry for the long first post.

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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Berf »

Riat departures - hotter than the Mojave Desert :grinning: :grinning:

(Today - As of 1224L, Edwards AFB is under a Yellow Flag Heat Stress condition at 86.3°F. Follow work/rest cycles and water-intake guidance.)

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jasonT1981
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by jasonT1981 »

Vaporwave wrote:
Tue 19 Jul 2022, 8:10 pm


Genuine question… Since when have planes been able to fly over the crowd line? I couldn’t believe it when The Red Arrows flew directly over. Then BBMF and the Black Eagles followed suit!

Reds and BBMF have crowd line exception. The only other UK based display allowed to do this is the Blades as they are all former Red Arrows pilots.

Black Eagles surprised me coming over the crowd, but I guess they got it accepted on their validation, I would guess they do it every show so had the experience doing so and was allowed.

Vaporwave
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Vaporwave »

jasonT1981 wrote:
Tue 19 Jul 2022, 8:55 pm
Vaporwave wrote:
Tue 19 Jul 2022, 8:10 pm


Genuine question… Since when have planes been able to fly over the crowd line? I couldn’t believe it when The Red Arrows flew directly over. Then BBMF and the Black Eagles followed suit!

Reds and BBMF have crowd line exception. The only other UK based display allowed to do this is the Blades as they are all former Red Arrows pilots.

Black Eagles surprised me coming over the crowd, but I guess they got it accepted on their validation, I would guess they do it every show so had the experience doing so and was allowed.
Ah, that makes sense. I guess as long as they’re not doing manoeuvres over the crowd!

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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by IP1960 »

Another FRIAT (Mach 2) view of the Tattoo...

Wonderful to be back at Fairford - I've been to a decent number of shows both last year and this, but nothing matches the sheer size of this as an event does it?!

Whist one or two of the displays seemed a little lost along the lengthy crowdline at Fairford, I did enjoy all the pilots expertise, whatever they were flying. Particular highlights were the Black Eagles, the Austrians and Frecce, and any of the fast jets, but as I say I appreciate the skill of all of them. Nice to see the RJF showing what an excellent team they are again, I know lots see them as a time for a "comfort break" but they really do display well.

Loved seeing the Beluga - see them over us from time to time, but at 20,000 feet, so very nice to see one "close" up.

It was a shame about the Buffs, as many have said, and the US display quota was very disappointing, but there's always next year.

I've seen the Reds 8 times ( :scream: ) this year now, and Mr Muscat doesn't seem to be improving his reading skills (I can't say commentary). I'm sure I'd be no better than him, but I'd hoped he would start to get into the role more by now. I feel his delivery doesn't help the Reds 7-ship display, but perhaps with a season under his belt, and 9 pilots next year will herald improvements. Having said that, I'm sure a large percentage of the crowd don't even notice and indeed love seeing them however many aircraft fly ( as seen by the reception at Ragley when only 6 flew the display!).

As someone who has only been in FRIAT for a few years, the movement around the stand did seem a little more this year, but given the weather, the need to keep taking on water etc, and the consequent trips to the loo, perhaps I shouldn't have been surprised. No one caused an issue for me, though clearly other did have one or two problems. Having always sat in rows F, G or H there always seem to be lots of empty seats around, and those of us who are there can spread out, and this was the case again this year.

I spent Sunday out of the stand, after such a long warm day on Saturday, and with the prospect of a scorching departure day - no camera, wandering around the statics, went in a couple of transports etc, catching shade where I could, and enjoyed the different view. I've filled in my form for FRIAT 2023 but not yet returned it - I'm still undecided, though I have a sneaky feeling that I enjoyed the show so much this year that I think I'll be back in the stand next year.

All in all big congratulations to everyone at DBH for the show they gave us - not easy times in the world, creating all sorts of issues no doubt, but back with a bang. Long may it continue.

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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Vaporwave »

What do we think are the chances of a B-1B ever coming back to fly at RIAT? I’m guessing low?

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