UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Discussions regarding historic aircraft, restoration and preservation etc
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Mike
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by Mike »

Does this have any connection with UKHAT?
tache3 wrote:
Sun 16 Jan 2022, 6:16 pm
From the Wrecks And Relics Facebook page-

"Hope this is OK to post otherwise admins please delete.
Would anyone in the group be interested in acquiring a fully restored de Havilland Venom DH112 FB MK1 Cockpit
Asking price is £8,000 - reasonable offers considered. Genuine enquiries only please - photos can be made available to serious bidders.

Fully intact cockpit with everything inside in its correct place. Including original and modern radios, bomb release and gun sights.
Built for Swiss Airforce in 1955 as the squadron leaders aircraft carrying the squadron insignia on the nose. Mounted on a trailer with steps, platform and guard rails allowing access to the cockpit. Ready to tow away and display. Can be towed with most mid size cars / vans.

Comes with original panels for the gun tubes and ammunition bay.Has been repainted at some stage in RAF colours. Available for shipping to customers in the UK and mainland Europe only. This item is free from explosives (FFE). This item contains no explosive elements or parts thereof".

This is an affordable and sensible way into aviation heritage. A cockpit section that is display ready is an ideal way to promote yourselves, raise funds and establish credibility. Can be easily towed and stored in a reasonable sized building/garage. This is where you should be starting, with a project like this.

NOTE- I have nothing to do with this sale. Just passing it on.

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tache3
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by tache3 »

Mike wrote:
Sun 16 Jan 2022, 9:35 pm
Does this have any connection with UKHAT?
tache3 wrote:
Sun 16 Jan 2022, 6:16 pm
From the Wrecks And Relics Facebook page-

"Hope this is OK to post otherwise admins please delete.
Would anyone in the group be interested in acquiring a fully restored de Havilland Venom DH112 FB MK1 Cockpit
Asking price is £8,000 - reasonable offers considered. Genuine enquiries only please - photos can be made available to serious bidders.

Fully intact cockpit with everything inside in its correct place. Including original and modern radios, bomb release and gun sights.
Built for Swiss Airforce in 1955 as the squadron leaders aircraft carrying the squadron insignia on the nose. Mounted on a trailer with steps, platform and guard rails allowing access to the cockpit. Ready to tow away and display. Can be towed with most mid size cars / vans.

Comes with original panels for the gun tubes and ammunition bay.Has been repainted at some stage in RAF colours. Available for shipping to customers in the UK and mainland Europe only. This item is free from explosives (FFE). This item contains no explosive elements or parts thereof".

This is an affordable and sensible way into aviation heritage. A cockpit section that is display ready is an ideal way to promote yourselves, raise funds and establish credibility. Can be easily towed and stored in a reasonable sized building/garage. This is where you should be starting, with a project like this.

NOTE- I have nothing to do with this sale. Just passing it on.
I have nothing to do with UKHAT. This item was advertised as for sale on social media. I was merely pointing out that this is the kind of project that an organisation like UKHAT should be starting out on. I understand representatives use this forum, so this was a heads up.

purple_95
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by purple_95 »

I note UKHAT are now announcing the Herald must be removed from Gatwick by the end of October or it risks being and I quote "cut up". As per usual it says 60k needed in the new announcement yet says nothing of how the money shall be raised and by whom, cant help but thinking this is just not going to happen.

Domvickery
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by Domvickery »

Free straws available to clutch at - PM me. Inventor of the baguette scale

RAF4EVER
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by RAF4EVER »

Domvickery wrote:
Sun 05 Jun 2022, 6:41 pm
???

cg_341
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by cg_341 »

purple_95 wrote:
Sun 05 Jun 2022, 6:21 pm
I note UKHAT are now announcing the Herald must be removed from Gatwick by the end of October or it risks being and I quote "cut up". As per usual it says 60k needed in the new announcement yet says nothing of how the money shall be raised and by whom, cant help but thinking this is just not going to happen.
Apparently they've just received a £10k donation from the Chairman of Jet2.com, Philip Meeson!

Quite surprising, but actually finally some decent fundraising might begin?

purple_95
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by purple_95 »

A step in the right direction with the 10 grand donation, but my worry is while the said donation is very kind a large amount still needs to be found and quickly, yet I have seen little from UKHAT suggesting how the money will be raised. A further point is who is actually going to move and restore the Herald if the money is eventually found. I asked that question ages ago and the reply was "well people have moved Vulcans and VC-10 by road so it can be done" a fair point but those people were trained in the task of moving such airframes around and had the backing and money of the MOD behind them, a somewhat different situation to the one UKHAT face.

DOUGHNUT
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by DOUGHNUT »

Difficult to decide about moving the Gatwick Herald. I would prefer to understand the UKHAT long term plan and hope they could direct their enthusiasm / funds to other worthwhile projects ?
Yes Heralds can be moved, DAS did it Duxford to Scotland they are obviously the best people to talk to about costs and the "engineering" required.
But remember DAS had time and equipment on site to dismantle, no way Gatwick Airport are going to allow a team of volunteers to visit at weekends to slowly work on the Herald.
Contractor will need to need in / out quickly possibly only moving at night if runway access is required.

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NAM Updater
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by NAM Updater »

Interestingly back in July 2016, it was someone from the Airside Operations Team at Gatwick that offered the airframe to Newark - I dealt with the offer and the assessment back then, was that it was already too far gone to warrant an attempt to save it.

On a personal basis I would worry about how much it has deteriorated since that time, and where the missing parts will be sourced from to reverse the significant fuselage door modifications that had been made to the airframe.
Howard Heeley - Newark Air Museum Trustee
Every museum visit counts!
http://newarkairmuseum.org


Binbrook 01
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by Binbrook 01 »

They got a mention on Scrambles Facebook page....

It descended into a bun fight

One wonders if they have listened to anybody

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speedbird2639
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by speedbird2639 »

For those not following them on Facey UK Heritage Aviation Trust have been advised by Gatwick that time has run out and Handley Page Dart Herald G-CEXP will shortly be no more.

Their announcement is below:
Dear Supporters
It is with a heavy heart that we have been informed by Gatwick Airport that we have run out of time to rescue Handley Page Dart Herald G-CEXP. Due to operational reasons and the fact that she is on a live airfield plus funding (which has always been an issue) XP - one of only a few left, will no longer be saved and restored by UK Heritage Aviation Trust. It is now most likely to be cut up. We tried our best and even with TV interviews and vast amounts of social media coverage, we were not able to raise the funds needed to remove her from Gatwick Airport.
Following this devastating news, as a trust we will spend the coming months deciding our future direction. We will not be rushing into any future project without a lot of thought and planning. In terms of money raised through our Go-Fund-Me Page we will be contacting donors individually, offering a full refund.

Binbrook 01
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by Binbrook 01 »

Not before time.


It amazes me how other groups and museums have sorted themselves and acquired, moved or disposed to others airframes since 2017. Even in the few years since then, SWAM, and Morayavia have appeared and done well. Jet Art and GJD have helped others in that time as well...

Stick to sponsored walks an lighting and leave it to them that know what they are doing....

Only a few weeks till Guy Fawkes night

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Tommy
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by Tommy »

A great shame to lose the aircraft.

UKHAT, despite I’m sure very good and noble intentions, is an exercise in the difficulty of pub-chat pipe dreams.

It’s one thing to lament the lack of preservation in the U.K. (which I disagree with, but each to their own), it’s another thing entirely to form an organisation with incredibly ambitious aims and goals, but no expertise/plan with how to get there.

It also shows how badly a rocky start affects these organisations - first impressions count, and despite fixing some of the initial problems, people still saw the name and thought (fairly or unfairly) “chancers”, or worse, didn’t bother paying them heed at all.

Kudos to them to put the effort in to do something at least, and a shame it didn’t work out, but it’s also a really lesson in the importance of front-end planning, good branding, relevant expertise, and not having a meltdown on social media at your target audience.

An excellent point by Binbrook 01 re other enterprises coming along since 2017 and quietly achieving far more in that time.

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tache3
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by tache3 »

And they STILL don't get it. Here is the reply they have posted to a user comment-

"We have also suffered badly from sustained and unwarranted attacks from a number of trolls who it would seem did not want to project or the charity to succeed. Where ever we posted they followed with more negative comments. We truly believe that without this we may well have succeed".

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pbeardmore
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by pbeardmore »

If a project is so weak,it can be defeated by some negative comments on social media, it clearly has some issues.
“The best computer is a man, and it’s the only one that can be mass-produced by unskilled labour.”

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Tommy
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by Tommy »

tache3 wrote:
Thu 06 Oct 2022, 2:13 pm
And they STILL don't get it. Here is the reply they have posted to a user comment-

"We have also suffered badly from sustained and unwarranted attacks from a number of trolls who it would seem did not want to project or the charity to succeed. Where ever we posted they followed with more negative comments. We truly believe that without this we may well have succeed".
Oh, well. Screw that. If they are *still* behaving in that way like playground politics, then they obviously weren’t right for the job. I thought they’d gotten over that. If they can’t handle criticism (in their case, absolutely justified, and entirely because of their own actions), then they shouldn’t be in that business.

No one *wanted* them to fail. Jesus H. Do they really think that? Do they really think that there are significant numbers of people who were positively hoping for the Herald to be cut up? Why? Just ‘cause? How childish.

Perhaps if they had listened to the criticism, they wouldn’t have failed.

Binbrook 01
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by Binbrook 01 »

Its all very good selling mygs and t shirts, although I doubt that raised a lot... But I don't recall GJD, Jet Art or anyone else doing sponsored walks to raise funds to buy airframes.

Nice try..

Stick to paper aeroplanes maybe ...

Binbrook 01
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by Binbrook 01 »

Sadly they just wouldn't listen. And knowing HH at NAM and the guys that started LPG at Bruntingthorpe as we all sat around at Binbrook in 1988 bemoaning the loss of the Lightning fleet and at the time the airfield...

Ok Binbrook got a brief stay of execution

thunderbird167
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by thunderbird167 »

I have to say I have been accused of being a UKHAT troll

I pointed out on Twitter that a photograph was the same as the one on their fund raiser when it was stated to have been taken that day. After a few abusive tweets they finally agreed it was the same. Would have been simpler to just say sorry posted the wrong picture and post the correct one.

Standard response was if you did not agree or questioned them you were a troll. They would never answer simple questions like are you selling tee shirts or take on board any advice

At least some of them got to go to a few shows to promote their venture

Hopefully there won't be another UKHAT project
Chair North East Land Sea and Air Museum

Ken Shabby
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by Ken Shabby »

thunderbird167 wrote:
Thu 06 Oct 2022, 8:13 pm
I have to say I have been accused of being a UKHAT troll

I pointed out on Twitter that a photograph was the same as the one on their fund raiser when it was stated to have been taken that day. After a few abusive tweets they finally agreed it was the same. Would have been simpler to just say sorry posted the wrong picture and post the correct one.

Standard response was if you did not agree or questioned them you were a troll. They would never answer simple questions like are you selling tee shirts or take on board any advice

At least some of them got to go to a few shows to promote their venture

Hopefully there won't be another UKHAT project
Ah, so you’ll be one of the Nelsam “scum” referred to on their Facebook page. 😊
Ken

thunderbird167
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by thunderbird167 »

I guess so

Preserving aircraft for nearly 50 years and nearly 20 moved without a single fundraiser or sponsored walk, including ones to five different museums, in the time UKHAT have been around

Obviously I had nothing to offer in terms of knowledge, experience or contacts so I had to be a troll
Chair North East Land Sea and Air Museum

5944
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by 5944 »

https://register-of-charities.charityco ... 41&subid=0

The trust is just one bloke isn't it? Someone with good intentions but with virtually no ability to raise serious amounts of cash, at least not without spending more than than they earn. £15,000 raised (£10k donation from one person) but still £45k short of what was required.

thunderbird167
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by thunderbird167 »

The trust was far more than one person but fronted by Duncan Halford
Chair North East Land Sea and Air Museum

Binbrook 01
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by Binbrook 01 »

Ah Dunkin Donuts and and his other clowns. Was it Eggman. ?

Where is Dan O H these days.

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