UPDATED 07.02 - Flying Legends retrospective - *1997*

Discussions regarding historic aircraft, restoration and preservation etc
DaveBr
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun 31 Aug 2008, 6:08 pm

Re: UPDATED 07.02 - Flying Legends retrospective - *1997*

Post by DaveBr »

Thanks.

Again, on the B-25 I will have picked up that designation from a Flying Legends programme. I have 2004 in front of me on the desk now and that's how it's listed there.

(I see on its current official web site:
https://kluhv.nl/home-eng/nieuws/de-vli ... -mitchell/
it is listed as both a B-25N and then at the bottom of the page a B-25J ... :dizzy: )

User avatar
Archer
Posts: 49
Joined: Wed 06 May 2009, 10:02 am
Contact:

Re: UPDATED 07.02 - Flying Legends retrospective - *1997*

Post by Archer »

These things can get complex. As the aircraft still has the Hayes-modified engine installations, along with some other small changes, I'd say that B-25N is the best fit. On the other hand, it was flown to represent a B-25J but is currently in the colours of a B-25D, so take your pick. It was originally built as part of a batch of B-25J-20/22-NC Mitchells, so that's where that build lot number came from.

Back to Legends! :wink:

(edited, forgot that it currently represents a different model)

DaveBr
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun 31 Aug 2008, 6:08 pm

Re: UPDATED 07.02 - Flying Legends retrospective - *1997*

Post by DaveBr »

I have moved on to 1998. I don't have any personal recollections - you'll have to wait until 2002 for those so I have, again, been watching the official video. This is one from the 'Red Admiral Years' so leaves something to be desired on the production front, but let's brush over that...

The French were back in 1998 after an enforced absence in 1997 apparently due to some disagreement between the French and British authorities over portability of certification. We touched on this in the 1997 discussion and it is covered extensively in the 1998 video.

A strong lineup again, with over 30 aircraft in the Balbo (I counted 31 plus Joker, video commentary claims 34). I was particularly struck by the strength of the Naval contingent - 4 Grumman Cats, 3 Corsairs, 3 Skyraiders, 2 Fury/Sea Furies, 2 Avengers, 2 Swordfish(!).

Notable individual items were the MATS Connie (operating from Cranfield for the weekend), 3 Lysanders together and both RNHF Swordfish. How often did this happen away from Yeovilton?

Display sequences were as follows. Keep in mind this is based on the video, which may not necessarily present them in the original order. There might also be items missing - the Grumman Goose is seen on the flightline but not mentioned in the display, for instance.

Spitfire sequence:
9x Spitfires, with the only Legends debutant being HAC's Mk.V BM597, which I believe just missed the previous years show, having it's first post-restoration flight later in July 1997. The video features some fantastic close, low level passes by the pair of Mk.XIVs - SM832 & MV293.

Mercury Flight:
Lysanders x3
Blenheim
Gladiator

Allison Duo:
TFC P-40 & P-63. The P-40 back with TFC again having been exchanged for SM832?

MATS Constellation

USAF segment:
A-26
B-25
P-47

BBMF:
Lancaster, Spit XIX PM631, Hurricane PZ865

Grumman Cats:
All 4 together then
Bearcat/Tigercat and Wildcat/Hellcat pairs

Navy:
RNHF Swordfish x2

3x Corsair

2x Avenger
Catalina
including 3 ship formation

3x Skyraiders

Diamond Nine Tigermoths

Hawkers:
Hurricanes x2 bounced by OFMC Buchon then tail chase
Hurricane & Hind flypast then Hind solo

Ultimate Pistons:
2x Furies & Bearcat

Mustangs:
Believe 6 P-51s (video commentary claims 8, but no evidence for more than 6)

Mustangs remained in the air to join straight to Balbo(?)

Balbo:
31 aircraft + Bearcat Joker
(possibly a couple more if the B-25 and A-26 were trailing behind(?) but I couldn't be sure)

It was notable on the video how close together (and low!) the Balbo segments were as they came through on the breaks to land. Certainly more 'exciting' than today, but I don't think anyone could argue with the need for safety on that one...

I have also been working on the detailed participants spreadsheet, which I'll share in due course. Just need to check and confirm a few things first.

DaveBr
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun 31 Aug 2008, 6:08 pm

Re: UPDATED 07.02 - Flying Legends retrospective - *1997*

Post by DaveBr »

1998 Participants list.

I don't have many pilots and not sure of the exact balbo content...

Image

Image

Ben Dunnell
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon 01 Sep 2008, 9:45 pm

Re: UPDATED 07.02 - Flying Legends retrospective - *1997*

Post by Ben Dunnell »

DaveBr wrote:
Mon 09 Mar 2020, 9:46 am
1998 Participants list.

I don't have many pilots and not sure of the exact balbo content...

Image

Image
Sorry — only just seen that this had moved on to 1998. Again, I have a full flying programme, so here's what it says, with all the usual provisos about last-minute changes:

TFC Spitfire V EP120 — Nick Grey
TFC Spitfire IX ML417 — Dave Southwood
OFMC Spitfire IX MH434 — Brian Smith
HAC Spitfire IX TE566 — John Romain
HAC Spitfire V BM597 — Charlie Brown
Rick Roberts Spitfire IXT PV202 — Alan Walker
Grace Spitfire IXT ML407 — Carolyn Grace
Lamplough Spitfire VIII MV154 — Robs Lamplough
TFC Spitfire XIV MV293 — Jack Brown
Jacquard Spitfire XIV SM832 — Christophe Jacquard

ARC Blenheim — John Webb
Shuttleworth Gladiator — Gordon McClymont
ARC Lysander — Lee Proudfoot
Sabena Lysander — Jean-Michel Legrand
Shuttleworth Lysander — 'Dodge' Bailey

TFC P-40M — Steve Johnson
TFC P-63 — Guy Bancroft-Wilson

C-121A — Frank Lang

BBMF Lancaster — Dave Thomas
BBMF Spitfire — Harrison (can't recall the first name)
BBMF Hurricane — 'Shiney' Simmonds

Diamond Nine — led by Ken Whitehead

Goose — Bob Swainston (it was definitely in the display)

TFC Tigercat — Steve Hinton
TFC Bearcat — Stephen Grey
TFC Hellcat — Howard Pardue
TFC Wildcat — Pete Kynsey

RNHF Swordfish pair — Greaves and Dean (can't recall the first names)

Catalina — Paul Warren Wilson
Haig-Thomas Avenger — Dan Griffith
AMPAA Avenger — Didier Chable
TFC Corsair — Keith Skilling
Jacquard Corsair — Eric Goujon
OFMC Corsair — Rolf Meum
TFC Skyraider — Carl Schofield
Aérorétro Skyraider — Maurice Etcheto
AMPAA Skyraider — Jean-Renaud Guillemot

Shuttleworth Hind — don't know
TFC Hurricane — Steve Privett
OFMC Buchón — Mark Hanna

OFMC Fury — Ray Hanna
Morgan Sea Fury — Steve Noujaim
TFC Bearcat — Stephen Grey

SHF A-26 — Anders Saether
TFC B-25 — Pete Ford
TFC P-47M — Stu Goldspink
TFC P-51D — Paul Bonhomme
Davies P-51D — Cliff Spink
Morgan P-51D — don't know
Lamplough P-51D — Pete John
Intrepid P-51D — Norman Lees
Aérorétro P-51D — Maffre (don't know first name)
Air B P-51D — Gonnet (don't know first name)

Balbo pilots not listed separately. Jack Brown led in TFC's Spitfire XIV.

On the programme but not in the show, as far as I know — I was only there on Saturday, and don't have my notes to hand — were TFC's Harvard (due to be piloted by Warwick Brady), Eric Vormezeele's Skyraider (Eric Vormezeele), the Shuttleworth Sea Hurricane (Gordon McClymont) and the SHF P-51D (Lars Ness). Maybe the Sea Hurricane turned up on Sunday. Of the Shuttleworth aircraft, only the Lysander operated from Duxford; all the rest flew to and from Old Warden.

Hope that helps!

Elliott Marsh
Posts: 305
Joined: Fri 19 Aug 2016, 11:02 am

Re: UPDATED 07.02 - Flying Legends retrospective - *1997*

Post by Elliott Marsh »

Great to see this continue! I've been flat out on other things and haven't had a chance to add anything myself, but will give it a go this weekend. It's largely been covered by Dave and Ben, though.

In the home video, Jerry Mead identifies the Air B Mustang pilot as Francois Gonnet.

User avatar
WG655
UKAR Staff
Posts: 1297
Joined: Mon 31 May 2010, 1:15 pm

Re: UPDATED 07.02 - Flying Legends retrospective - *1997*

Post by WG655 »

Ended up watching the home video myself recently, one of the small perks of lockdown!

In said P-51 sequence, it looked like Dave Southwood was in the cockpit of a 'Memphis Belle film' green Mustang so presumably he was the pilot of Paul Morgan's example?

Mike
Posts: 1733
Joined: Sun 31 Aug 2008, 5:08 pm

Re: UPDATED 07.02 - Flying Legends retrospective - *1997*

Post by Mike »

One correction - the ‘Paul Morgan’ P-51D was in fact owned by Charles Church at the time. Dave Southwold and Reg Hallam, as well as Church himself, flew his aircraft.

Ben Dunnell
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon 01 Sep 2008, 9:45 pm

Re: UPDATED 07.02 - Flying Legends retrospective - *1997*

Post by Ben Dunnell »

Mike wrote:
Sat 02 May 2020, 7:58 pm
One correction - the ‘Paul Morgan’ P-51D was in fact owned by Charles Church at the time. Dave Southwold and Reg Hallam, as well as Church himself, flew his aircraft.
According to the CAA register, Paul Morgan acquired G-SUSY in 1991.

Fargo Boyle
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun 17 Nov 2019, 2:13 pm

Re: UPDATED 07.02 - Flying Legends retrospective - *1997*

Post by Fargo Boyle »

Yes, Charles Church tragically died in 1989. Perhaps we would have had a Lancaster and Battle on the flying programme if he'd still been alive...