Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Discussions regarding historic aircraft, restoration and preservation etc
davski
Posts: 212
Joined: Mon 01 Sep 2008, 7:30 am
Contact:

Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by davski »

Blue_2 wrote:
Tue 06 Oct 2020, 8:01 am
In addition he has been trying to get free volunteer labour from the museum sector to help in the dismantling/reassembly process, and indeed approached the RAF with the attitude he was doing them a favour offering them a training opportunity for the Chinook force.

He's a cheeky bugger, right enough...
Wow, a sudden change of wind direction...! I say good luck to them.

GertrudetheMerciless
Posts: 919
Joined: Mon 08 Sep 2008, 7:25 pm

Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by GertrudetheMerciless »

HeyfordDave111 wrote:
Mon 05 Oct 2020, 5:12 pm
So we pay via a crowdfunding excercise to move and re assemble the aircraft, so that someone can make money by renting it as an air BnB?

Apart from 'saving' (and i use that word carefully) the aircraft on a field with presumably limited access, what do the crowdfunders get?

It aint exactly Tom Moore is it?
Missed the crowdfunding bit.

Good luck with that!

Volunteers he may get help with but inevitably there will be hurdles and costs to make that work.

No chance of getting RAF involved though.

User avatar
TonyC
Posts: 107
Joined: Sat 02 Nov 2019, 3:01 pm
Location: Lost, if you find me, please let me know...

Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by TonyC »

OK, I'm going to show my ignorance here, what's air BnB?
...and pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in Space cos there's bugger all down here on Earth!

User avatar
NAM Updater
Posts: 2868
Joined: Mon 01 Sep 2008, 7:06 am
Location: Notts / Lincs border
Contact:

Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by NAM Updater »

TonyC wrote:
Tue 06 Oct 2020, 2:58 pm
OK, I'm going to show my ignorance here, what's air BnB?
It's a way of booking holiday accommodation https://www.airbnb.co.uk/

Interesting re the Chinook option, the RAF's 'drop clause' for any loads that become unstable, tends to focus minds at the planning stage!!
Howard Heeley - Newark Air Museum Trustee
http://newarkairmuseum.org

User avatar
Andover
Posts: 545
Joined: Sat 20 Feb 2010, 8:53 pm
Location: Oxfordshire

Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by Andover »

'Chinooking' a Bev would take several expensive trips:

Main fuselage
Boom
Wing centre section
2 x outer wings
Tail section

And then there's Engines, rear doors and undercarriage by road.

User avatar
NAM Updater
Posts: 2868
Joined: Mon 01 Sep 2008, 7:06 am
Location: Notts / Lincs border
Contact:

Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by NAM Updater »

The Beverley situation seems to have taken another turn!

https://www.scramble.nl/military-news/d ... a-beverley
Howard Heeley - Newark Air Museum Trustee
http://newarkairmuseum.org

GertrudetheMerciless
Posts: 919
Joined: Mon 08 Sep 2008, 7:25 pm

Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by GertrudetheMerciless »

I’d be interested to see the make up of the CIC.

Either way, what planet are they on? If the other bidder was reportedly a scrap merchant I think they’ve done very well getting it made into an AirBNB! It was hardly pulling visitors to Fort Paull and it’s rather telling that no museum seemed willing to take the project on (because most museums live in the real world?)

Nah, we’d rather have it scrapped ‘guv.

User avatar
JJC
Posts: 2171
Joined: Mon 19 Apr 2010, 7:14 pm
Location: North England

Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by JJC »

I’d stay there!
''Time to dive into the fireworks!''

User avatar
Archer
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed 06 May 2009, 10:02 am
Contact:

Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by Archer »

They can protest all they want, but they didn't cough up the £34,000 so they don't own it. As the new owner, it's up to mr. Wiseman to decide what to do with it. Personally, I think it's a smart scheme and if it will keep the aircraft intact, why not. Keeping this large chunk of aluminium intact and in the UK is a major step already, let's start by cheering that achievement.

User avatar
HeyfordDave111
Posts: 1275
Joined: Sat 21 Feb 2015, 5:30 pm
Location: In my minds eye, Greenham Common for 'that' show.

Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by HeyfordDave111 »

Totally agree, the guy paid for it, it's his to do with what he wants......however....

There is no doubt that it will have to leave its current position to another of the owners choosing, but the owner will need to pay for its removal in kit form and re assembly.

So even if anyone else would have purchased it the bill would still be 'up there' and not the 38k or whatever it was just for the purchase.

It's going to be expensive and possibly, as it is being touted as a crowdfunder, the move if beyond the new owners reserves?
Got to love Russianhardware

Gt5500
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue 09 Jul 2019, 4:40 pm

Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by Gt5500 »

It's the same rubbish that comes out everytime some rich person buys a dilapidated castle or something and turns it into a hotel. People simply don't understand that if the only way to preserve something is to make money out of it then that is better than it being lost forever.
I never understood the outrage about the red bull liveried aircraft, if that's the only way to keep them flying then so what, unless you are going to stump up the cash you don't really have a say.

User avatar
NAM Updater
Posts: 2868
Joined: Mon 01 Sep 2008, 7:06 am
Location: Notts / Lincs border
Contact:

Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by NAM Updater »

Blue_2 wrote:
Tue 06 Oct 2020, 8:01 am
In addition he has been trying to get free volunteer labour from the museum sector to help in the dismantling/reassembly process, and indeed approached the RAF with the attitude he was doing them a favour offering them a training opportunity for the Chinook force.

He's a cheeky bugger, right enough...
I suspect the information in this post from earlier in the thread, illustrates how the situation has developed, and perhaps why the volunteers were surprised (and disappointed) by the decision to turn it into a B&B.

However it all turns out, I personally believe that it's a challenging and potentially risky project.
Howard Heeley - Newark Air Museum Trustee
http://newarkairmuseum.org

User avatar
capercaillie
Posts: 8107
Joined: Mon 01 Sep 2008, 3:04 pm
Location: Leominster

Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by capercaillie »

Gt5500 wrote:
Fri 09 Oct 2020, 8:34 am
I never understood the outrage about the red bull liveried aircraft, if that's the only way to keep them flying then so what, unless you are going to stump up the cash you don't really have a say.
You couldn't understand that some people had the opinion that they looked utter sh!te and have the perfect right to air that view? It doesn't mean anyone is telling them what to do with it.
"The surrogate voice of st24"

Ant.H
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed 15 Jan 2020, 2:21 am

Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by Ant.H »

It's good that someone came up with the cash to enable '259 to dodge the scrapper, at least for a few more years. I wish them all the best with the plan, an aircraft this large that's been outdoors for decades is bound to present challenges when it comes to dismantling and roading.

It is a bit of a disappointment that this commercial avenue has proved to be the only way to save it, it really is sad that it hasn't been saved by a group/museum purely as a historic aircraft, but that's the world we live in. It really needs bringing indoors if it's going to stand any chance of long term survival, but truth be told there is probably nowhere in the preservation scene that could house it.

I hope the politics can get sorted out and that the glamping mods are subtle.

Gt5500
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue 09 Jul 2019, 4:40 pm

Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by Gt5500 »

capercaillie wrote:
Fri 09 Oct 2020, 9:21 am
Gt5500 wrote:
Fri 09 Oct 2020, 8:34 am
I never understood the outrage about the red bull liveried aircraft, if that's the only way to keep them flying then so what, unless you are going to stump up the cash you don't really have a say.
You couldn't understand that some people had the opinion that they looked utter sh!te and have the perfect right to air that view? It doesn't mean anyone is telling them what to do with it.
I get what you are saying but there's a big difference between me saying 'ooh that scheme is nasty' and people more or less suggesting that the owners have somehow defaced a public monument or something.
People are absolutely entitled to air their opinions but people do often do as you have said and tell the operators what to do with it.
The thing that I don't get is even if you dislike the look of something surely you can see the bigger picture that it's either that or nothing?

Ken Shabby
Posts: 527
Joined: Mon 29 Sep 2008, 12:23 pm
Location: Romford, Essex
Contact:

Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by Ken Shabby »

We don’t have much of a track record in the UK for preserving the really big aircraft, so the fact that the Beverley has been saved (hopefully) at all should be seen as a positive. Hendon and Southend got shot of theirs and I was fearing the worst for this, the last one. As a previous poster has said, we can only hope the conversion to ‘residential’ is done sympathetically.
Ken

GeeRam
Posts: 189
Joined: Sat 13 Jun 2020, 3:54 pm

Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by GeeRam »

NAM Updater wrote:
Fri 09 Oct 2020, 8:57 am
Blue_2 wrote:
Tue 06 Oct 2020, 8:01 am
In addition he has been trying to get free volunteer labour from the museum sector to help in the dismantling/reassembly process, and indeed approached the RAF with the attitude he was doing them a favour offering them a training opportunity for the Chinook force.

He's a cheeky bugger, right enough...
I suspect the information in this post from earlier in the thread, illustrates how the situation has developed, and perhaps why the volunteers were surprised (and disappointed) by the decision to turn it into a B&B.

However it all turns out, I personally believe that it's a challenging and potentially risky project.
I agree, I suspect they feel they've had the wool pulled over their eyes in terms of volunteer support to help save it, when in actual fact, how much of it will be saved?
The changes that will be required to turn it into accommodation in terms of planning and local authority regulations will mean it will have to be significantly and permanently altered and modified in a way that means it's effectively not being 'preserved' from a 'museum POV'. It will no longer be a Bev.

Is it better than being scrapped, yes, but that's not what's pissed the museum staff off.

GeeRam
Posts: 189
Joined: Sat 13 Jun 2020, 3:54 pm

Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by GeeRam »

NAM Updater wrote:
Wed 07 Oct 2020, 6:11 pm
The Beverley situation seems to have taken another turn!

https://www.scramble.nl/military-news/d ... a-beverley
From that article..... :thinking:
In RAF service, XB259 served operationally with several squadrons, including 47, 30, 34 and 53, with home bases at Abingdon and Dishforth, but it also deployed overseas to Aden (now Yemen), where two were lost to land mines during operations, Bahrain, Kenya and in Singapore during the Indonesian Confrontation in the mid- 1960s.
I didn't think XB259 ever saw RAF squadron service?
It was retained by Blackburn for its own use and registered as G-AOAI and later on transferred to the RAE and allocated mil serial XB259 where it served with RAE for testing up until sold off by the MOD and bought by Court Line in the early 70's and eventually flown to Paull Airfield.
So, who's trying to pull the wool over who's eyes now?

User avatar
G-CVIX
Posts: 2020
Joined: Mon 01 Sep 2008, 7:39 pm
Location: SW/UK
Contact:

Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by G-CVIX »

I just thought I'd post this section of the above link as I found it interesting:
In the months prior to the auction, volunteers of the Fort Paull Battery Heritage Site CIC (FPBHS CIC) have done their utmost to guarantee the future of the Beverley as a museum object. They were completely smashed by the news that the Beverley will be converted into a luxurious B&B. In an official announcement the Fort Paull Battery Heritage Site CIC states: “In the last couple of days, the CIC learnt of Martin Wiseman’s plan to convert the Beverley into holiday accommodation via a news article. He did not contact or inform us of any information prior to the press release (an additional grievance to the hard work so many have committed). The Fort Paull Battery Heritage Site CIC does not support this decision in any manner, and we will not facilitate this to take place. Over the past months our team has been working exceptionally hard meticulously planning the movement, restoration and archival process of the Beverley.” And: “FPBHS CIC cannot assist as it fundamentally goes against our moral, ethical, and historical stance. Therefore, as of the 6th of October 2020 at 10.00 hrs LT we, the FPBHS CIC, remove all our assistance, financial and otherwise from this now personal business venture.”
Is it better that scrapping? I suppose so, but I don't like deception. If he has led volunteers on to thinking it will be a museum piece, only to turn around and make it a B&B, that's appalling. I probably would have looked to stay there once to be fair, if it was done well. It's a novel idea and there's a 747 hotel somewhere in Europe that looks great. Some of the helicopters that have become "glamping" pods don't look like much though, IMO.

User avatar
NAM Updater
Posts: 2868
Joined: Mon 01 Sep 2008, 7:06 am
Location: Notts / Lincs border
Contact:

Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by NAM Updater »

XB259 history details can be found in here http://www.beverley-association.org.uk/html/259/259.htm

NAM provided quite a few parts to the original project when it was with the Army Transport museum in Beverley, most of which was recovered from the airframe that was scrapped at RAF Finningley in 1977, when NAM was moving the Shackleton. At that time they also saved the cockpit, which is now in the SYAM at Doncaster.
Howard Heeley - Newark Air Museum Trustee
http://newarkairmuseum.org

User avatar
Andover
Posts: 545
Joined: Sat 20 Feb 2010, 8:53 pm
Location: Oxfordshire

Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by Andover »

XB259 represents the breed, regardless of its personal history.

What if the owner kept it at Elvington, which is just up the road, boosting that museums income, and he charges people a small sum to go on board. Then in the future he uses that money, along with some from the museum for its upkeep? Just a thought.

GertrudetheMerciless
Posts: 919
Joined: Mon 08 Sep 2008, 7:25 pm

Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by GertrudetheMerciless »

Andover wrote:
Sat 10 Oct 2020, 9:46 am
XB259 represents the breed, regardless of its personal history.

What if the owner kept it at Elvington, which is just up the road, boosting that museums income, and he charges people a small sum to go on board. Then in the future he uses that money, along with some from the museum for its upkeep? Just a thought.
That’s assuming there is space.

Then you look at the maths. NAM_Updater may be able to give a better idea, but I doubt the revenue from a weekend of people paying a couple of quid to go on board will get anywhere near the nightly price (and the consequent income) as an Airbnb (depending on how he does it up, well north of £500 for a weekend, obviously potentially looking an serious money in the summer and school holidays).

It’s just not realistic to think the public putting a few coppers in a tin (if you are lucky you might get a note once in a while) make it a viable museum exhibit, considering its location and the costs of moving it.

User avatar
HeyfordDave111
Posts: 1275
Joined: Sat 21 Feb 2015, 5:30 pm
Location: In my minds eye, Greenham Common for 'that' show.

Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by HeyfordDave111 »

Whilst i appreciate all comments for and against, can i just point out that at the moment, it's a big lump of metal sitting on a third parties ground, that needs a large chunk of cash from the public to dismantle, ship, and reassemble.

Until this happens, especially if the previous owner serves eviction notices, its got no future. (my opinion is that maybe the cockpit will be saved by a third party and i hope it does as a bare minimum). Money and previous owner patience will move this along or get it scrapped either way.

Personally unless someone with deep pockets comes in (St. Athan?) and purchases her from the purchaser, i cannot see a future for the aircraft, which would be a tragic shame.
Got to love Russianhardware

GertrudetheMerciless
Posts: 919
Joined: Mon 08 Sep 2008, 7:25 pm

Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by GertrudetheMerciless »

HeyfordDave111 wrote:
Sat 10 Oct 2020, 11:23 am
Wwhilst i appreciate all comments for and against, can i just point out that at the moment, it's a big lump of metal sitting on a third parties ground, that needs a large chunk of cash from the public to dismantle, ship, and reassemble.
Indeed so.
Personally unless someone with deep pockets comes in (St. Athan?) and purchases her from the purchaser, i cannot see a future for the aircraft, which would be a tragic shame.
Didn’t the owner of a collection at St Athan recently have a six-figure crowdfunding campaign to move an aeroplane they already own?

User avatar
Blue_2
Posts: 422
Joined: Thu 13 Jan 2011, 10:29 am

Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by Blue_2 »

GertrudetheMerciless wrote:
Sat 10 Oct 2020, 10:46 am
Andover wrote:
Sat 10 Oct 2020, 9:46 am
XB259 represents the breed, regardless of its personal history.

What if the owner kept it at Elvington, which is just up the road, boosting that museums income, and he charges people a small sum to go on board. Then in the future he uses that money, along with some from the museum for its upkeep? Just a thought.
That’s assuming there is space.
Which there isn't, unfortunately.

As alluded to earlier, the bare faced lies are the main reason so many offers of help have been withdrawn. 259 was supposed to be going to be restored as stock, as the centre piece of her own museum, possibly even under cover. Then, out comes the truth, which I am led to believe came as a very unpleasant surprise to the other major financial contributor, regarding his intentions with the aircraft.

Speaking for myself, I could forgive and understand the AirBnB plan
a) Had he been open about his intentions all along
b) If he didn't intend hacking areas of the aircraft like the cockpit around. It's not like there isn't plenty of space aboard aircraft to put facilities in, to my mind the very nearly complete cockpit should be restored to stock and not hacked into a drinks lounge or whatever it was he described it as.

As ever, if it looks too good to be true... :rolling_eyes:
Meteor WS788 Restoration Project, Yorkshire Air Museum