RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

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FarnboroJohn
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by FarnboroJohn »

Skylinerworld wrote:
Thu 19 May 2022, 4:49 pm
Red Arrows and Silver Swallows formation to celebrate the Irish Air Corps' anniversary? :thinking:
Where are you going to put the border between the two teams?

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pako-2008
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by pako-2008 »

Do people really expect each and every update to be packed full of front line fighters, headline acts and rarity we haven't seen for years? Honestly, each week after every update the same people are making the same comments and it's getting a bit tiresome. By all means have an opinion and share it, but to keep banging the drum when the event hasn't happened yet plus 8 weeks to run lacks basic perspective.

As it stands in the flying, we have eight fast jet solo's or role demo's, six display teams, six helicopters and four trainer solo's or role demo's (24 display slots). On top of that based on self/semi confirmations, we have one further fast jet (Czech Gripen), one further display team (Frecce), one further helicopter (RAF CH-47) and one further trainer role demo (Czech Alca's)... in what world is that not the level we've come to expect from RIAT which has delivered for us time and time again? That doesn't even touch on a surprise here or there (RokAF Black Eagles), some semi regulars or undeclared nations either.

These updates also need to fill the static park, something a few here clearly forget given each week they only pine for flying items. Even in the static we have some absolute gems such as the Portuguese and Romanian (for me seeing a P-3 from the Germans has become a star with the type rapidly disappearing from service across the world - side note of a CP140 pretty please Canada). I suspect the quantity of static additions will inevitably rise as the weeks draw closer and air arms can confirm availability once operational commitments are considered.

Someone also commented they don't want to see an aircraft from the Polish Navy or the Irish... seriously? Let's tell them to leave those at home shall we? There's only three types the Polish Navy could send, with two rarely if ever seen outside of Poland so this comment is actually mind blowing.

It's easy to make flippant comments because a couple of weeks haven't delivered for your own tastes, but the quality and quantity is already there with more clearly to come. This all in an uncertain world operationally and the show coming off a two year hiatus. I'm not sat here championing RIAT, but Christ the show isn't forecast anywhere near as bad as some are portraying.
Cheers
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Spotty_Jag »

Andyph wrote:
Thu 19 May 2022, 9:29 pm
Donate some or perhaps all of the following to Cosford

DENMARK - ROYAL DANISH AIR FORCE
SAAB T-17 Supporter (x6) - Baby Blue Display Team / Flyveskolen

FINLAND - FINNISH AIR FORCE
British Aerospace Hawk Mk.51 Solo

FRANCE - FRENCH AIR AND SPACE FORCE
Pilatus PC-21 (x2) Mustang X-Ray Tactical Display

HASHEMITE KINGDOM OF JORDAN - ROYAL JORDANIAN AIR FORCE
Extra 330LX (x4) Royal Jordanian Falcons

IRELAND - IRISH AIR CORPS
Pilatus PC-9M (x4) Silver Swallows Display Team

SLOVENIA - SLOVENIAN AIR FORCE
Pilatus PC-9M Solo

SWITZERLAND - SWISS AIR FORCE
Pilatus PC-7 (x9) Swiss Air Force PC-7 Team

Might improve both shows!

Actually can we swap them with Cosford’s Rafale :)
Great idea, get rid of the unique display items that most enthusiasts are keen to see at RIAT, and replace it with a mundane fast jet which we see regularly. Brilliant. You really don’t get the ethos of the Air Tattoo do you?!

I appreciate some people’s opinion that there’s too many training aircraft, but people seem to forgot the line-up already has two Gripens, two Fighting Falcons, two Typhoons and two Hornets, so RIAT is hardly lacking in fast jet action! In previous years the forum has complained when there’s multiple displays from the same fast jet types?!

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Bodz156
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Bodz156 »

pako-2008 wrote:
Thu 19 May 2022, 11:00 pm
Do people really expect each and every update to be packed full of front line fighters, headline acts and rarity we haven't seen for years? Honestly, each week after every update the same people are making the same comments and it's getting a bit tiresome. By all means have an opinion and share it, but to keep banging the drum when the event hasn't happened yet plus 8 weeks to run lacks basic perspective.

As it stands in the flying, we have eight fast jet solo's or role demo's, six display teams, six helicopters and four trainer solo's or role demo's (24 display slots). On top of that based on self/semi confirmations, we have one further fast jet (Czech Gripen), one further display team (Frecce), one further helicopter (RAF CH-47) and one further trainer role demo (Czech Alca's)... in what world is that not the level we've come to expect from RIAT which has delivered for us time and time again? That doesn't even touch on a surprise here or there (RokAF Black Eagles), some semi regulars or undeclared nations either.

These updates also need to fill the static park, something a few here clearly forget given each week they only pine for flying items. Even in the static we have some absolute gems such as the Portuguese and Romanian (for me seeing a P-3 from the Germans has become a star with the type rapidly disappearing from service across the world - side note of a CP140 pretty please Canada). I suspect the quantity of static additions will inevitably rise as the weeks draw closer and air arms can confirm availability once operational commitments are considered.

Someone also commented they don't want to see an aircraft from the Polish Navy or the Irish... seriously? Let's tell them to leave those at home shall we? There's only three types the Polish Navy could send, with two rarely if ever seen outside of Poland so this comment is actually mind blowing.

It's easy to make flippant comments because a couple of weeks haven't delivered for your own tastes, but the quality and quantity is already there with more clearly to come. This all in an uncertain world operationally and the show coming off a two year hiatus. I'm not sat here championing RIAT, but Christ the show isn't forecast anywhere near as bad as some are portraying.
Agree with all this! 👍👏

I really think, if you're a military aviation fan, RIAT is delivering as well as it could be expected to given the times we live in....better even. I honestly didn't expect a line-up as good as this one when it all kicked off in Ukraine. And with maybe a month & a half of updates to come I look forward to seeing what else DBH can get. It shows how good the line-up is that there isn't much on the list that I wouldn't be sad about cancelling!

Fingers crossed for good weather, July can't come soon enough.

knoxy17
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by knoxy17 »

You just cannot please some people. Just for the show to go ahead after what is going on in the world is enough for me . Dbh are doing an amazing job , for all the pathetic moaners , don't attend if your not happy with whats on offer .

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Tommy
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Tommy »

Andyph wrote:
Thu 19 May 2022, 9:29 pm
I wonder if this might well be the most padding ever seen at a RIAT ?
This is so stupid.

By my count there’s nine fast jets solo/pairs in the flying display, ten if you count the red arrows, eleven if you count Frecce. Against seven prop trainer aircraft. Even if they were “padding”, they’re not the majority anyway.

FastJetBros, man. They act like nothing else matters. They’d take a show full of fast jets we see every year over actual debuts and rarities.

I, genuinely, am more excited to see the French PC-21 pair debut than I am to see yet another Rafale display, cool as that might be, and yet, the fast jets confirmed, such as the Swiss and Spanish Hornet displays are some of the best on the European circuit.

Realistically - what else is out there? Swap in the Finnish Hornet and Danish F-16 demos, perhaps (and then the criticisms of “muhhhh four F-16s and four Typhoons are boring” start coming).

And “trainers” isn’t a rubbish theme - you might not like it, but it’s not a rubbish theme. In fact, given that a lot of nations are keeping their fighters on standby for obvious reasons, and much of their heavy lift transport aircraft are working overtime in the European theatre, I’d say it was a hell of decent theme to have gone with.

I’m not saying that you have to like turboprops - if they’re not for you, they’re not for you, but you, and others, need to stop declaring things as facts just because you personally don’t like them.

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boff180
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by boff180 »

Right now.... and this was a very very quick glance so I've probably missed some...

Flying
3 RIAT debut
4 UK debut

Static
1 RIAT debut
8 UK debut

I can't remember a show with so many debut visitors for a very long time, there's 7 weeks of updates to go too....

RIAT isn't all about fast jets - it's an Air Tattoo - it's the worlds largest military airshow - it's a gathering. Some years that will mean more fast jets than others, others large transports. This year it's trainers - and that theme has been nailed.

Variety is the spice of life.

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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Andyph »

Tommy wrote:
Fri 20 May 2022, 6:51 am

I’m not saying that you have to like turboprops - if they’re not for you, they’re not for you, but you, and others, need to stop s just because you personally don’t like them.
Well we obvious disagree - thats fine and a bit fun - But I'm none plussed by this line (above) ?
Where did I state anything as fact? And I'm sure you read my last line that said "I jest"!

I just wonder, if you had time while you were jumping on the outrage bus, to have you read your own post WRT declaring things as facts?

cg_341
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by cg_341 »

Everything you said before and after the "I jest but" line is complete "Kris Kris Tofferson!" though...

You clearly said that
Andyph wrote:
Thu 19 May 2022, 9:55 pm
But, apart from I want to see a PC-9 in XYZ colours nerds, most people agree that they are padding.

And as discussed above they are lost in the skies at Fairford.

It is a poor choice of a theme - nobody forces IAT to pick it!- I started going in 77 so I remember many good themes
And that's demonstrably untrue. It's your opinion, but it is factually incorrect.

They are not padding, they are acts directly relating to the theme. If anything, they are the main acts.

Most people don't agree with you, or if they do they are being strangely silent on the matter.

They are not lost in the skies above Fairford, you're just remembering the past when display lines were lower and closer. It's 2022 now, catch up.

Noone forces RIAT to pick themes, but they've picked a fantastic one. If the theme this year was "heavy airlift" the show would have been knackered. If it was "air defence", it would have been knackered.

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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Andyph »

cg_341 wrote:
Fri 20 May 2022, 8:18 am
Everything you said before and after the "I jest but" line is complete "Kris Kris Tofferson!" though...

You clearly said that
Andyph wrote:
Thu 19 May 2022, 9:55 pm
But, apart from I want to see a PC-9 in XYZ colours nerds, most people agree that they are padding.

And as discussed above they are lost in the skies at Fairford.

It is a poor choice of a theme - nobody forces IAT to pick it!- I started going in 77 so I remember many good themes
And that's demonstrably untrue. It's your opinion, but it is factually incorrect.
Thanks - Its obviously my opinion.

I’d love you to show how it’s demonstrably untrue though? :)

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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Luke28 »

This thread has been way too civilized this year, I was beginning to worry that FC was taking over the well built reputation. Its so good to see UKAR back on form!

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Tommy
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Tommy »

Andyph wrote:
Fri 20 May 2022, 8:06 am
Where did I state anything as fact?
Here:
Andyph wrote:
Thu 19 May 2022, 9:55 pm
Yes Yes Yawn Yawn.

But, apart from I want to see a PC-9 in XYZ colours nerds, most people agree that they are padding.

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Tommy
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Tommy »

Luke28 wrote:
Fri 20 May 2022, 8:28 am
This thread has been way too civilized this year, I was beginning to worry that FC was taking over the well built reputation. Its so good to see UKAR back on form!
Bring on the anarchy! Eh, robust debate is fine - it’s never personal.

Andyph and I agreed over a lot in other threads and (I hope!) we get on fine. As I always say, I’ll happily have a roaring discussion with someone on here and then go for pints with them the next day.

Just to preempt some of the usual comments - a reminder that people are perfectly entitled to their opinions, but others are just as entitled to respond to those opinions. If someone says something stupid, it’s just as much a right for anyone else to say “that’s stupid”.

The “right to an opinion” is not a right to say what you like without consequence.

There’s nothing wrong with saying turboprops are not for you, or for not thinking every single RIAT update is amazing. Nor even, that it’s a shame a certain nation can’t attend. But don’t speak as though the stuff you don’t like is similarly disliked by everyone else, or that a theme a “poor choice” just because you personally don’t like it.

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tankbuster81
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by tankbuster81 »

For me personally im very happy with the line up. Nice to see some more Helicopters, and a few things ive not seen before, maybe we've all been spoilt in the past. Can't wait for the whole Fairford experience again, and if the A10 confirms, my life will be complete.
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Andyph
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Andyph »

Tommy wrote:
Fri 20 May 2022, 8:40 am
Andyph wrote:
Fri 20 May 2022, 8:06 am
Where did I state anything as fact?
Here:
Andyph wrote:
Thu 19 May 2022, 9:55 pm
Yes Yes Yawn Yawn.

But, apart from I want to see a PC-9 in XYZ colours nerds, most people agree that they are padding.
OK Lets rewrite it – I’m sure most people agree they are padding!
It’s the opinion of everyone I watch aeroplanes with.
Never once do I remember anyone I know saying “lets go to Linton and watch Tucanos ”
And I bet If you held a poll on the day at the crowd line - is a PC-9 a highlight or padding?– Trainers would be padding!
Just not on UKAR it appears!

Gt5500
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Gt5500 »

Based on some of the recent comments some people either need to adjust their expectations (it's not the 90's anymore no matter how hard you cry about it) or stop going to airshows for their own sanity.
It really must be so bad for ones mental health to constantly live in the past and be perpetually disappointed by what is on offer today.

Gt5500
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Gt5500 »

Andyph wrote:
Fri 20 May 2022, 9:04 am
OK Lets rewrite it – I’m sure most people agree they are padding!
It’s the opinion of everyone I watch aeroplanes with.
!
So not most people then? Just most people you hang around with, confirmation bias much?

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Wissam24
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Wissam24 »

Well, I personally have a thing for trainer aircraft as they're often the much lesser spotted and seen types, so I'm delighted by this year's theme and the stuff that's turning up. They most certainly are not padding, they're the main theme haha.
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Witchcraft24
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Witchcraft24 »

So is that it? Acts are either a highlight or padding ? Not just participants who are part of a wider varied air display?
But these kind of comments have been aired every year since the likes of UKAR started… obviously a 3 year hiatus due Covid hasn’t changed that …
Last edited by Witchcraft24 on Fri 20 May 2022, 9:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by iainpeden »

I have to admit that helicopters and turbo trainers don't light my fire particularly. Having been to every IAT/RIAT since 1977 and been a member of F(R)IAT since 1983 - a quick tally comes to 108 days of my life! - I really miss the days of multiple types of fast jets, a variety of camo schemes, the long lines of Hercs and/or KC-135s and the days when you just could not do the entire static line in one day However, I know that air arms are proportionally much smaller than in the heyday of the show and we will never get back to the days of 400+ a/c on the field.

This year I'm staying in Cirencester and thinking of missing the Friday - maybe do the GWR museum at Swindon or the SS Great Britain and then have a great weekend and flying out day.

I also have every confidence that the team will get any a/c that is available to appear.
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Wrexham Mackem
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Wrexham Mackem »

Andyph wrote:
Fri 20 May 2022, 9:04 am
OK Lets rewrite it – I’m sure most people agree they are padding!
It’s the opinion of everyone I watch aeroplanes with.
Never once do I remember anyone I know saying “lets go to Linton and watch Tucanos ”
And I bet If you held a poll on the day at the crowd line - is a PC-9 a highlight or padding?– Trainers would be padding!
Just not on UKAR it appears!
But they're not just PC-9s - the Silver Swallows are an aerobatic team, an airshow act. Its made up of PC-9s yes, but that's not the point of their display. If you're just looking at the aircraft themselves, and not being entertained by the show, then that's missing the point of airshows.

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Bodz156
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Bodz156 »

I just think, it's been 2 years without any Air Tattoo....I'll watch everything with a new appreciation, yes even the Royal Jordanian Falcons 😁

I can't wait to see Hungarian Mi-24s, the Romanian AN-30(!), the Austrian Typhoon pair, the Portuguese Epsilons....I could go on & on.

For fast jet fans, there's plenty there already plus hopefully another Gripen & every chance of the Italian Typhoon (when did it last not turn up?) & maybe Soloturk....not to mention 8 afterburning Golden Eagle jets should The Black Eagles rumour come true.

The German A340 is being retired this year I believe, so will make the most of that as well!

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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by DeanW »

Andyph wrote:
Fri 20 May 2022, 9:04 am
And I bet If you held a poll on the day at the crowd line - is a PC-9 a highlight or padding?– Trainers would be padding!
Just not on UKAR it appears!
Certainly not 'just UKAR'. The Slovenian PC-9M has been very well received in recent years to the point where it won The Cannestra Trophy in 2015 and The Sir Douglas Bader Trophy in 2017.

cg_341
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by cg_341 »

By my count, not including spares for flying display aircraft, we're up to 151 aircraft for the show.

I think you might be able to add another 15 to that for spares. Not a bad number so far.

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rdchawk
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by rdchawk »

I'm just grateful there's a RIAT happening at all and looking forward to being there after a couple years hiatus.
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