Shutterplane's Friday at RIAT

Airshow Photography from the UK and around the world
ShutterPlane
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Shutterplane's Friday at RIAT

Post by ShutterPlane »

I didn't get many good ones of the Red Arrows, I didn't have my camera out for the fly past with t' Thunderbirds.

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Osprey

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Things get more excitable with the Belgian Air Force and their F16

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Last edited by ShutterPlane on Tue 01 Aug 2017, 9:56 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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ShutterPlane
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Re: Shutterplane's Friday at RIAT

Post by ShutterPlane »

RAF Typhoon from 29 Squadron

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Airbus Military deomonstrating the A400M. Superb aircraft

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Last edited by ShutterPlane on Tue 01 Aug 2017, 9:48 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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ShutterPlane
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Re: Shutterplane's Friday at RIAT

Post by ShutterPlane »

RAF Chinook

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Mirage

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ShutterPlane
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Re: Shutterplane's Friday at RIAT

Post by ShutterPlane »

USAF Flypast

under edit
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ShutterPlane
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Re: Shutterplane's Friday at RIAT

Post by ShutterPlane »

USAF F22

under edit

Thunderbirds

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Last edited by ShutterPlane on Tue 01 Aug 2017, 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ShutterPlane
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Re: Shutterplane's Friday at RIAT

Post by ShutterPlane »

That's it from the flying display.

Thanks for looking.
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p2philip
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Re: Shutterplane's Friday at RIAT

Post by p2philip »

Some decent shots there thanks for posting! Maybe try being more selective, instead of showing a whole sequence pick just the best shots for the forum. This way it won't get repetitive!

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Re: Shutterplane's Friday at RIAT

Post by Stagger2 »

+1 for the above comment. I can confirm my screen shows all other posted pictures as 'normal', therefore you need to know these are mostly all toooo bright! I suspect in an attempt to rescue some colour from a dull day you have turned them-up a bit too far? You could also achieve a better result on the 'prop' shots by using a lower shutter-speed. These comments are in an attempt to help you present the best set from your images, 'Quality not Quantity' should be your mantra. HTH.

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Re: Shutterplane's Friday at RIAT

Post by Hatstand »

Agree with the above posts...

Some very nice shots there, but they get a bit "lost" among the shots that are not quite so good?

If you pick out the just your best shots, your gallery should look much more interesting, and have more impact?
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Re: Shutterplane's Friday at RIAT

Post by ShutterPlane »

Hatstand wrote:Agree with the above posts...

Some very nice shots there, but they get a bit "lost" among the shots that are not quite so good?

If you pick out the just your best shots, your gallery should look much more interesting, and have more impact?


I get so many photos which no one gets to see, I like to show as many as I can.


p2philip wrote:Some decent shots there thanks for posting! Maybe try being more selective, instead of showing a whole sequence pick just the best shots for the forum. This way it won't get repetitive!


I thought it was a small selection :biggrin:

Stagger2 wrote:+1 for the above comment. I can confirm my screen shows all other posted pictures as 'normal', therefore you need to know these are mostly all toooo bright! I suspect in an attempt to rescue some colour from a dull day you have turned them-up a bit too far? You could also achieve a better result on the 'prop' shots by using a lower shutter-speed. These comments are in an attempt to help you present the best set from your images, 'Quality not Quantity' should be your mantra. HTH.


Interesting. As all of my screens show my shots as normal (normal to me) as well as other peoples shots, but some other peoples shots do look dark. The sky may look a bit bright in some, as the sky is overcast, but the aircraft are grey, dark grey or contain other colours not as bright, so I like to expose the aircraft and not the sky. I tend to find a good exposure setting and leave it at that for a time before readjusting.

I haven't brightened up any to rescue colour from a dull day as the colour appeared to me at least to come out okay. You can tell when someone has done that though as the colour saturation can look over concentrated and grainy.

I like to post more than a few photos as there are so many aircraft and particularly with the jets, so many interesting angles to see them from.


Thanks for the comments so far. Always good to get someone else's perspective.
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Dan O'Hagan
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Re: Shutterplane's Friday at RIAT

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

ShutterPlane wrote:
Hatstand wrote:Agree with the above posts...

Some very nice shots there, but they get a bit "lost" among the shots that are not quite so good?

If you pick out the just your best shots, your gallery should look much more interesting, and have more impact?


I get so many photos which no one gets to see, I like to show as many as I can.


p2philip wrote:Some decent shots there thanks for posting! Maybe try being more selective, instead of showing a whole sequence pick just the best shots for the forum. This way it won't get repetitive!


I thought it was a small selection :biggrin:

Stagger2 wrote:+1 for the above comment. I can confirm my screen shows all other posted pictures as 'normal', therefore you need to know these are mostly all toooo bright! I suspect in an attempt to rescue some colour from a dull day you have turned them-up a bit too far? You could also achieve a better result on the 'prop' shots by using a lower shutter-speed. These comments are in an attempt to help you present the best set from your images, 'Quality not Quantity' should be your mantra. HTH.


Interesting. As all of my screens show my shots as normal (normal to me) as well as other peoples shots, but some other peoples shots do look dark. The sky may look a bit bright in some, as the sky is overcast, but the aircraft are grey, dark grey or contain other colours not as bright, so I like to expose the aircraft and not the sky. I tend to find a good exposure setting and leave it at that for a time before readjusting.

I haven't brightened up any to rescue colour from a dull day as the colour appeared to me at least to come out okay. You can tell when someone has done that though as the colour saturation can look over concentrated and grainy.

I like to post more than a few photos as there are so many aircraft and particularly with the jets, so many interesting angles to see them from.


Thanks for the comments so far. Always good to get someone else's perspective.


Sorry, but you need to learn a lot about the art of photography and certainly how to edit and do post-production.

These, almost without exception are massively over-exposed, to the point that they're almost difficult to look at. I don't see how on earth you can't see this from your own monitor, or indeed by using the histogram on your camera?

And people are right about there simply being too many. Discriminate. Choose the single best shot from a pass, not the whole lot you machine-gunned. Look for interesting angles, and shots that stand out from the norm.

I'll be honest, this was a very difficult set to look at. Once it had finished loading...

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Re: Shutterplane's Friday at RIAT

Post by Canon »

Some decent shots. Most of them are overexposed though. Also lacking blurred propellers.

Try this:
propeller aircraft = 1/320th or slower (shutter priority)
jets = f/9 (or your lenses 'sweet spot'), at least 1/500th (manual or aperture priority with camera set to minimum shutter speed 1/500th {one of the many great features of the Canon 80D})
helicopters = 1/160th or slower (shutter priority)
panning shots (take off/ landing) = anywhere between 1/100- to 1/250th (shutter priority)

If its an overcast day I either use +1/3 or +2/3 exposure compensation (Can do that even in manual mode on the 80D :cool: ), followed by a load of post processing in Lightroom to tone down the highlights a bit and keep the detail in the aircraft. In any other weather conditions I just leave the camera to do the exposure as its normally right.
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Re: Shutterplane's Friday at RIAT

Post by Blackbird »

Dan's comments are spot-on.

Andy

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Re: Shutterplane's Friday at RIAT

Post by ShutterPlane »

Which ones are over exposed? I've been looking and comparing to others and I can't see anything difficult to look at.

Haven't machine gunned and posted them all. I thought people like seeing lots of photos. I took around 1500 photos and posted some of each aircraft.

I just don't like dull dark aircraft which are post processed so much to the extent that they become grainy and obviously over colour saturated by post processing, which I see in a lot of other threads.

Don't worry I'm not offended, I'm taking constructive comments on board. You can help me nail this if I know which ones are considered over exposed.
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Re: Shutterplane's Friday at RIAT

Post by ShutterPlane »

I wonder, should I send someone some RAWs and let you have a go at post processing some to demonstrate?
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Re: Shutterplane's Friday at RIAT

Post by CJS »

There are some nice shots hidden in here, but (and I really am no expert) I have to agree about the over exposure. As an example, compare your Thunderbirds shots with the first one on this post - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=78093 (hope you don't mind Tommy) - and see the difference in contrast and detail on the fuselage of the jet. Likewise your Typhoon shots - it's a grey jet, yours are nearly white.

And less (much less) is more - there are only so many Belgian F-16 shots anyone (including I would imagine Gizmo himself) can bear to look at!

Why not have a go at re-processing a few and post them up again? But thanks for posting and sharing, hopefully you take some of the advice on board, some of those who have replied are extremely good photographers.
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Re: Shutterplane's Friday at RIAT

Post by ShutterPlane »

Dan O'Hagan wrote:
Sorry, but you need to learn a lot about the art of photography and certainly how to edit and do post-production....


What you, I, anyone else needs to learn about the art of photography is that, it's just that - an art.

To quote someone else on this matter

"Many guides will say that a certain histogram shows a proper exposure. “Proper” is subjective and photography is art. Art is subjective. If your artistic vision is a photo that is overexposed or one that is underexposed, and you intentionally cause that effect for your image, then “proper” is what you have achieved"

So, if you don't like it, or other people, it doesn't mean the art is lost on someone else. Photography is subjective. Other people might think we've all gone mad taking photos of aircraft, because they think the art should be in landscapes.
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Re: Shutterplane's Friday at RIAT

Post by ShutterPlane »

CJS wrote:There are some nice shots hidden in here, but (and I really am no expert) I have to agree about the over exposure. As an example, compare your Thunderbirds shots with the first one on this post - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=78093 (hope you don't mind Tommy) - and see the difference in contrast and detail on the fuselage of the jet. Likewise your Typhoon shots - it's a grey jet, yours are nearly white.

And less (much less) is more - there are only so many Belgian F-16 shots anyone (including I would imagine Gizmo himself) can bear to look at!

Why not have a go at re-processing a few and post them up again? But thanks for posting and sharing, hopefully you take some of the advice on board, some of those who have replied are extremely good photographers.


Hmm. Yes.

This is where art becomes subjective. No offence at all to the author of the thread (or anyone else for that matter) you posted, but to me, those images are dark and dull - but that's my take, it's a subjective matter.

My Typhoon shots for example, I'll agree and admit that a grey aircraft against an overcast sky is always a difficult one for me. If I take the sky down a bit, the aircraft just becomes dull in appearance.

I'll have a go at darkening them and re posting.

I notice that in Canon's DPP, darkening the exposure works entirely different to Adobe Photoshop CS5, which I have, not sure if there's a better version.

Photoshop doesn't appear to attack the darker areas all at once unlike DPP, so perhaps I'll play with that and re post some. But which ones, all of them, or certain ones? Shall I start on the Typhoon?
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Re: Shutterplane's Friday at RIAT

Post by Jumbo »

yes, art is subjective, but that being said if Van Gogh did a painting so with a sky bright you could hardly see the subject from the background it would probably not go down well. This is not an abstract painting, its a photo of an aircraft. Im guessing you are aiming to recreate the conditions on the day and if so it is much to bright. Tommy's photos are a little dark but its much better for them to look gloomy, as it was on the day he took his, and be able to see the subject clearly than have a hugely over-exposed image. Also its far easier to brighten up a dark image than darken a bright image.

With the typhoon maybe try to lighten up the shadows. This will make it look less boring and grey. Also try darkening the highlights rather than the whole image.

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Re: Shutterplane's Friday at RIAT

Post by Jakub.Zurek »

Jumbo wrote:Also its far easier to brighten up a dark image than darken a bright image.


I have to disagree, as exposing to the right is a very useful and known technique in photography. Simply - brightening a dark image will create a lot of noise in the shadows, whilst darkening a bright image will not. It looks like exposing to the right is what the OP has done perhaps without realising. All that is needed now is to edit the RAW files to get a nice dynamic range in them, otherwise they are just plain RAW files like you see here.

I look forward to seeing the OP repost some of these pictures as there is potential there for some genuinely very nice photos :smile:

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Re: Shutterplane's Friday at RIAT

Post by ShutterPlane »

Jakub.Zurek wrote:
Jumbo wrote:Also its far easier to brighten up a dark image than darken a bright image.


I have to disagree, as exposing to the right is a very useful and known technique in photography. Simply - brightening a dark image will create a lot of noise in the shadows, whilst darkening a bright image will not. It looks like exposing to the right is what the OP has done perhaps without realising. All that is needed now is to edit the RAW files to get a nice dynamic range in them, otherwise they are just plain RAW files like you see here.

I look forward to seeing the OP repost some of these pictures as there is potential there for some genuinely very nice photos :smile:


I too have found that darkening an image retains information rather than brightening a dark one, creating noise, grain and loss of colours.

I intentionally expose to the right for airshows, as the aircraft is darker than the sky - so that's what the result is, a brighter sky as it's a very contrasting image.
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Re: Shutterplane's Friday at RIAT

Post by CJS »

ShutterPlane wrote:
CJS wrote:There are some nice shots hidden in here, but (and I really am no expert) I have to agree about the over exposure. As an example, compare your Thunderbirds shots with the first one on this post - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=78093 (hope you don't mind Tommy) - and see the difference in contrast and detail on the fuselage of the jet. Likewise your Typhoon shots - it's a grey jet, yours are nearly white.

And less (much less) is more - there are only so many Belgian F-16 shots anyone (including I would imagine Gizmo himself) can bear to look at!

Why not have a go at re-processing a few and post them up again? But thanks for posting and sharing, hopefully you take some of the advice on board, some of those who have replied are extremely good photographers.


Hmm. Yes.

This is where art becomes subjective. No offence at all to the author of the thread (or anyone else for that matter) you posted, but to me, those images are dark and dull - but that's my take, it's a subjective matter.

My Typhoon shots for example, I'll agree and admit that a grey aircraft against an overcast sky is always a difficult one for me. If I take the sky down a bit, the aircraft just becomes dull in appearance.

I'll have a go at darkening them and re posting.

I notice that in Canon's DPP, darkening the exposure works entirely different to Adobe Photoshop CS5, which I have, not sure if there's a better version.

Photoshop doesn't appear to attack the darker areas all at once unlike DPP, so perhaps I'll play with that and re post some. But which ones, all of them, or certain ones? Shall I start on the Typhoon?


It will make the Typhoon look like the colour it actually is would be my bet. The Typhoon would be a good one to start with as it is a pretty long way off the colour it is in real life (whatever real life is... :hypno: ). Enjoy playin' with them and look forward to seeing the results. :up:
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Re: Shutterplane's Friday at RIAT

Post by LN Strike Eagle »

I'm not really sure how you retain more detail by blowing the highlights? Take the first image of the Thunderbirds F-16 taking off as an example - the flags are half missing it's so overdone. Compare to the image mentioned in Tommy's thread, where each panel line, the rivets and weathering etc are all clearly visible.

Canopies are a good guide too - personally, I can't stand an image where the outline of the canopy isn't clearly defined against the sky, and if I have to use an image where that is the case on the original I shot, I'll burn the canopy to make the demarcation more apparent. F-16s have smoked canopies and in some of these photos they still blend with the blown skies.

As mentioned, shutter speeds for prop types could do with being slowed down to capture some movement, and I'd agree about thinning down what gets posted a little - lots of repetition and some of the less-good images detract from the better ones when they're "drowned out", as it were.
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Re: Shutterplane's Friday at RIAT

Post by ShutterPlane »

before and after image removed to trim up the thread
Last edited by ShutterPlane on Tue 01 Aug 2017, 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shutterplane's Friday at RIAT

Post by Jumbo »

both are much better. The F16 looks good to me and i think the typhoon needs the whites darkening a little bit to get rid of the white area on the fuselage but overall a great improvement. In fact i now rather like the F16 shot :smile: I use Lightroom and it is a little more user freindly than photoshop as well as having built in raw to jpeg conversion.

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