FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

[Georgeconna]

The principle thing that made FRIAT still worth it was the grandstand on Mondays.

Everything else (showday grandstand, members area etc) was convenient but not necessarily a dealbreaker.

Now the background is cluttered by the new hangars, I’m sorely tempted to just pay separately for P&V each day, maybe do a day inside, and the rest at Totterdown or elsewhere.

Came to that conclusion many years ago after being bum rushed out the gate on yeaer.

[Georgeconna]

Cannot believe it really, certainly with what’s going on in the world at the moment and the cost of living. Having attended as a FRIAT member since the mid 90s il certainly be thinking twice about it for next year and will consider other options. It will be interesting to gauge other members opinions at the show this year as well as asking staff members how the reception to this price hike has been received.

Plenty of Excellent free shows in Europe.

[Tommy]

I’ve spoken to the helpful people at DBH who’ve asked for any concerns to be put into an email, for them to provide clarity/responses.

Red = anything added to my original list

I’ll cover:

- what do the “Bands” mean (in specific numbered row terms not just “priority seats”)?
- is direct debit payment available?
- if DD is not available, what other purchasing methods are there, for example PayPal.
- how will the renewal process be administered. As this is first come first served, where do we access it and how do we purchase?
- will there be similar increases to general ticket prices, too?
- why was this not raised at the FRIAT Forum?
- what sort of consulting process did RAFCTE go through to assess whether “this is what we wanted” as it appears to run contrary to the survey feedback reported at the FRIAT Forum.
- if this is because the show needs to recover costs during the pandemic, can the RAFCTE commit to reducing costs across the board once they’re back on an even keel?
- how will it work on Thursday morning, and what does it mean for FRIATers who cannot or are unable to commit then, and wait for general release?
- what are FRIATers who formally used to prefer the MACH2 package going to do in the alternative?
- has RAFCTE put any thought, or will they offer, anything additional as part of the package? Catering, photobus, static walk etc.
- how is the “the short packages aren’t selling” narrative squared with the fact that all levels of FRIAT sold out this year?
- the wording of the email is ambiguous as regards FRIAT access to P&V. In 2023, will FRIAT members have access to P&V on Thursday as well as Wednesday as per usual?
-What are the band rates applied to the disabled seats (row X), are we able to request these as opposed to being allocated a seat per the e-mail? Can we do this from Friday onwards as that's when we usually first use the grandstand?
- The numbered ticket system worked well at blue gate - why change this? Having picked up the form there was no rush to renew straight away with the various payment options available. So we now have to visit the enclosure on Thursday to renew if we want a better seat because it’s on a first come first served basis?

Anything else?

I daresay asking “how can you justify it” will be met with a vague and probably unsatisfying response, so I’m tempted not to ask it.

Give it until 4.00pm and I’ll send the email.

Easy enough for us to moan into the ether, but at the very least I’m hoping we can get some clarity out of this.

[rdchawk]

I’ve spoken to the helpful people at DBH who’ve asked for any concerns to be put into an email, for them to provide clarity/responses.

I’ll cover:

- what do the “Bands” mean (in specific terms not just “seats”)?
- is direct debit payment available?
- will there be similar increases to general ticket prices, too?
- why was this not raised at the FRIAT Forum?
- what sort of consulting process did RAFCTE go through to assess whether “this is what we wanted” as it appears to run contrary to the survey feedback reported at the FRIAT Forum.
- if this is because the show needs to recover costs during the pandemic, can the RAFCTE commit to reducing costs across the board once they’re back on an even keel?
- how will it work on Thursday morning, and what does it mean for FRIATers who cannot or are unable to commit then, and wait for general release?
- what are FRIATers who formally used to prefer the MACH2 package going to do in the alternative?

Anything else?

I daresay asking “how can you justify it” will be met with a vague and probably unsatisfying response, so I’m tempted not to ask it.

Give it until 4.00pm and I’ll send the email.

They've specifically suggested that it was lack of demand for the shorter packages for the change, yet all friat packages are sold out, how can they suggest no demand and still be sold out?? Is this just a lame excuse?

[Wrexham Mackem]

- how will the renewal process be administered. As this is first come first served, where do we access it and how do we purchase?

[Foggy32]

I’ve spoken to the helpful people at DBH who’ve asked for any concerns to be put into an email, for them to provide clarity/responses.

I’ll cover:

- what do the “Bands” mean (in specific numbered row terms not just “priority seats”)?
- is direct debit payment available?
- will there be similar increases to general ticket prices, too?
- why was this not raised at the FRIAT Forum?
- what sort of consulting process did RAFCTE go through to assess whether “this is what we wanted” as it appears to run contrary to the survey feedback reported at the FRIAT Forum.
- if this is because the show needs to recover costs during the pandemic, can the RAFCTE commit to reducing costs across the board once they’re back on an even keel?
- how will it work on Thursday morning, and what does it mean for FRIATers who cannot or are unable to commit then, and wait for general release?
- what are FRIATers who formally used to prefer the MACH2 package going to do in the alternative?
- has RAFCTE put any thought, or will they offer, anything additional as part of the package? Catering, photobus, static walk etc.

Anything else?

I daresay asking “how can you justify it” will be met with a vague and probably unsatisfying response, so I’m tempted not to ask it.

Give it until 4.00pm and I’ll send the email.

Easy enough for us to moan into the ether, but at the very least I’m hoping we can get some clarity out of this.

Tommy

Could you ask if, no DD option are they able to consider different payment options for example Paypal

Thanks
Karl

[Tommy]

[Domvickery]

What else can/will be offered to offset the increase in ticket prices

FRIAT only static walks, photo bus, one off photoshoots

[MingtheMerciless]

Anything else?

Thanks for doing this Tommy.

It would be good to know if FRIAT 2023 gives access to P&V on Thursday. The email seems to suggest P&V access on Wednesday and the other five days in the grandstand. but that might be my misunderstanding.

As P&V is often 'sold out' and me being a cynic, I suspect they want to shunt the FRIATers into the grandstand on Thursday, thus freeing up capacity in P&V to sell more tickets.

I was at the first IAT and have been to numerous shows in the last 50 years in various capacities; this might be now my last FRIAT as I don't really want to spend another £350/375 on the second day of this show, adding to all this year's expenditure. Might just do 1 or 2 days there in future.

[verreli]

If what I'm reading in this thread is actual sentiment and not just bluster there's a possibility the price has been set too high. This being the case, it would be natural that as supply exceeds demand the price will come down at some point. If I were you, I'd be looking for some guarantee that this future (lower) price is matched for those prepared to pay early. Of course if the price has been set in line with demand there's a risk that by not buying now you may miss out. Either way, come 2023 I expect the FRIAT stand to be full.

Personally I feel it's nuts what some people are prepared to pay for some entertainment products. There must be far more disposable income sloshing around than I think. Usually the price isn't worth it to me so I miss out but there are always alternatives.

[capercaillie]

Hi Tommy,

What are the band rates applied to the disabled seats (row X), unfortunately have to use those due to my brother's fused spine, are we able to request these as opposed to being allocated a seat per the e-mail? Can we do this from Friday onwards as that's when we usually first use the grandstand?

rest seems to cover main points

[JohnF]

Much appreciated putting questions to FRIAT to hopefully get clarification before RIAT starts.

I have been Mach 3 but the rest of the family have always been Mach 1 & more than happy with this. It’s a massive price increase for all & will need to think hard about whether it is going to be worth renewing.

I would be interested to know more about the renewal process. Thought the numbered ticket system worked well at blue gate - why change this? Having picked up the form there was no rush to renew straight away with the various payment options available. So we now have to visit the enclosure on Thursday to renew if we want a better seat because it’s on a first come first served basis?

[Tommy]

Cheers guys - final call, and I’ll get the email sent (hopefully before CoP but I don’t envisage much of a response before the weekend

[Berf]

I’ve spoken to the helpful people at DBH who’ve asked for any concerns to be put into an email, for them to provide clarity/responses.

I’ll cover:

- what do the “Bands” mean (in specific terms not just “seats”)?
- is direct debit payment available?
- will there be similar increases to general ticket prices, too?
- why was this not raised at the FRIAT Forum?
- what sort of consulting process did RAFCTE go through to assess whether “this is what we wanted” as it appears to run contrary to the survey feedback reported at the FRIAT Forum.
- if this is because the show needs to recover costs during the pandemic, can the RAFCTE commit to reducing costs across the board once they’re back on an even keel?
- how will it work on Thursday morning, and what does it mean for FRIATers who cannot or are unable to commit then, and wait for general release?
- what are FRIATers who formally used to prefer the MACH2 package going to do in the alternative?

Anything else?

I daresay asking “how can you justify it” will be met with a vague and probably unsatisfying response, so I’m tempted not to ask it.

Give it until 4.00pm and I’ll send the email.

They've specifically suggested that it was lack of demand for the shorter packages for the change, yet all friat packages are sold out, how can they suggest no demand and still be sold out?? Is this just a lame excuse?

People wanting mach 3 but they were sold out and settling for the lesser packages ... hence more Mach3 in future...

[jasonT1981]

Cheers guys - final call, and I’ll get the email sent (hopefully before CoP but I don’t envisage much of a response before the weekend

Pretty much a no, but with tickets now being non optional for selecting days, and can only buy for all 6 days, will there be shuttle buses for those extra days, or still weekend only?

[Tommy]

Apologies to JasonT, missed the boat but I’ve also directed them to this thread in case there’s anything missed.

The full email, for full disclosure (you all have a right to know):

Hi [redacted],

Thanks for your time on the phone earlier today. As discussed, on behalf of some users of the U.K. Airshow Review forums/community, there are some questions following the FRIAT email below.

- what do the “bands” mean in exact terms? Exactly which seats/rows are allocated to each band?
- is direct debit payment still available?
- if direct debit is not available, what other payment options are there, for example PayPal?
- how will the renewal process be administered? Is it still first come first served, where do we access it, and how do we purchase?
- how will it work on Thursday morning, and what do FRIATers who are unable to commit to purchasing tickets then and there do?
- The numbered ticket system worked well at blue gate on Thursday morning - why change this? Having picked up the form there was no rush to renew straight away with the various payment options available. So do we now have to visit the enclosure on Thursday to renew if we want a better seat because it’s on a first come first served basis?
- why was this not raised at the FRIAT Forum earlier in the year? Even if it wasn’t finalised, surely some information could have been provided?
- the email below notes feedback - what sort of consulting process did RAFCTE go through to get to that conclusion, as it appears contrary to the satisfaction survey and feedback quoted at the FRIAT Forum, and again, why wasn’t this feedback information noted at the FRIAT Forum?
- how does the “decline in demand for shorter packages” narrative square itself with the fact that all FRIAT packages have sold out, and what research led to this conclusion?
- what alternatives are there FRIAT members who use MACH 2 (ie are unable to commit to the full six day package, but do more than the two day package). Will they be able to purchase shorter-duration tickets, and still be able to access the FRIAT stand on Monday?
- the wording of the email is ambiguous as regards FRIAT access to P&V. In 2023, will FRIAT members have access to P&V on Thursday as well as Wednesday as per usual?
-What are the band rates applied to the disabled seats (row X), are we able to request these as opposed to being allocated a seat per the e-mail? Can we do this from Friday onwards as that's when we usually first use the grandstand?
- has the RAFCTE put any thought into additional FRIAT benefits, such as free catering, a photobus, exclusive photographic opportunities etc to offset some of the increased cost?
- will there be proportionately similar increases to general ticket prices and enclosures?
- if the price increases are because the show needs to recover costs suffered during the pandemic, can RAFCTE commit to reducing prices once the show is on an even keel post-2023?

Many of our concerns (and a lot of frustration, it must be said) are contained in the following thread: viewtopic.php?t=87659

Do you have anything to say (beyond the above) that will offer further clarity or comfort to our forum members?

Thank you so much in advance - in short, with not long to go before the show, our users need a bit more clarity on the proposals in the email below before they can commit to FRIAT 2023.

Kind regards,

Tom Jones

U.K. Airshow Review Staff

I hope that addresses most things - cheers to everyone for contributing. Let it not be said that we do try and make our concerns known, rather than ranting into the ether.

[Foggy32]

Apologies to JasonT, missed the boat but I’ve also directed them to this thread in case there’s anything missed.

The full email, for full disclosure (you all have a right to know):

Hi [redacted],

Thanks for your time on the phone earlier today. As discussed, on behalf of some users of the U.K. Airshow Review forums/community, there are some questions following the FRIAT email below.

- what do the “bands” mean in exact terms? Exactly which seats/rows are allocated to each band?
- is direct debit payment still available?
- if direct debit is not available, what other payment options are there, for example PayPal?
- how will the renewal process be administered? Is it still first come first served, where do we access it, and how do we purchase?
- how will it work on Thursday morning, and what do FRIATers who are unable to commit to purchasing tickets then and there do?
- The numbered ticket system worked well at blue gate on Thursday morning - why change this? Having picked up the form there was no rush to renew straight away with the various payment options available. So do we now have to visit the enclosure on Thursday to renew if we want a better seat because it’s on a first come first served basis?
- why was this not raised at the FRIAT Forum earlier in the year? Even if it wasn’t finalised, surely some information could have been provided?
- the email below notes feedback - what sort of consulting process did RAFCTE go through to get to that conclusion, as it appears contrary to the satisfaction survey and feedback quoted at the FRIAT Forum, and again, why wasn’t this feedback information noted at the FRIAT Forum?
- how does the “decline in demand for shorter packages” narrative square itself with the fact that all FRIAT packages have sold out, and what research led to this conclusion?
- what alternatives are there FRIAT members who use MACH 2 (ie are unable to commit to the full six day package, but do more than the two day package). Will they be able to purchase shorter-duration tickets, and still be able to access the FRIAT stand on Monday?
- the wording of the email is ambiguous as regards FRIAT access to P&V. In 2023, will FRIAT members have access to P&V on Thursday as well as Wednesday as per usual?
-What are the band rates applied to the disabled seats (row X), are we able to request these as opposed to being allocated a seat per the e-mail? Can we do this from Friday onwards as that's when we usually first use the grandstand?
- has the RAFCTE put any thought into additional FRIAT benefits, such as free catering, a photobus, exclusive photographic opportunities etc to offset some of the increased cost?
- will there be proportionately similar increases to general ticket prices and enclosures?
- if the price increases are because the show needs to recover costs suffered during the pandemic, can RAFCTE commit to reducing prices once the show is on an even keel post-2023?

Many of our concerns (and a lot of frustration, it must be said) are contained in the following thread: viewtopic.php?t=87659

Do you have anything to say (beyond the above) that will offer further clarity or comfort to our forum members?

Thank you so much in advance - in short, with not long to go before the show, our users need a bit more clarity on the proposals in the email below before they can commit to FRIAT 2023.

Kind regards,

Tom Jones

U.K. Airshow Review Staff

I hope that addresses most things - cheers to everyone for contributing. Let it not be said that we do try and make our concerns known, rather than ranting into the ether.

Thanks for taking the time to do this Tommy

[jasonT1981]

Apologies to JasonT, missed the boat but I’ve also directed them to this thread in case there’s anything missed.

No worries, I was late with my reply.

Thank you for taking the time to do this

[frank]

Just in case FRIAT do read this thread. I would ask if Mach package include any day at P&V i.e. Wednesday, Thursday, Monday.

[IP1960]

Cheers guys - final call, and I’ll get the email sent (hopefully before CoP but I don’t envisage much of a response before the weekend

Thank you for doing this, will be interesting to see the response.

Have seen various suggestions elsewhere about the changes, for example that Band A is the 30 aisle seats in Row A, so it will be good to hear direct from DBH.

[G-CVIX]

Thanks for doing this Tommy! I hope that they get back to you soon.

I was thinking about this last night - if DD isn't an option, couldn't a deposit scheme be another option? £100 now to secure your seat, with the rest due by a particular date, a common model used at other large scale events? Granted I know some people might secure a seat, and then not follow through with the booking but making the deposit non-refundable could deter this. I wonder if they are trying to reduce the workload on the FRIAT team by doing it this way?

[rockfordstone]

missed the email, but it covers things i wanted to ask.

thanks tommy for giving the forum a central point of contact

[Berf]

Regards RIAT income -surely it is unusual these days at any type of event for U18s to go free? I get the free for a certain age but isn't 18 a bit old these days?

[Adam the gardener]

My biggest issue is the removal of the numbered ticket (application form) system at the blue gate.

In my opinion this is a totally retrograde step, taking us back to the bad old days - 21 years ago when who got the best seat(s) was not decided by who was first in the queue at the gate, but by who could sprint the fastest across the airfield to the FRIAT tent, pick up and fill in a form and hand it over at the desk with a cheque.

I last witnessed this at RAF Cottesmore back in 2001. At the gate I met an elderly gentleman with angina and bad knees who was unable to run across. I carried his bag for him and we went across as fast as was possible but at the end he was totally fatigued. This angered me so much I wrote to FRIAT - even offering to hand out numbered raffle tickets at the gate to be attached to the application forms. Lo and behold, the next year the numbered ticket system was introduced on the return to Fairford in 2002. Ever since then myself and my now long time friend have joined the queue at 0X.00hrs to ensure we got seats together, above the aisle.

Thanks for all your work Tommy and I do hope we can have a quick about turn on this unequal/unfair policy and a last minute reintroduction of the numbered ticket system at the blue gate.

[iainpeden]

I can't help thinking so much angst could have been avoided by some simple cost benefit explanation.
"of the £600,000 we will get from FRIAT (2000 x £300) (the minimum), A = the cost of tickets for 4 days, B is the cost of the stand, C is the cost of the marquee, D is the cost of the dedicated toilets, E is the cost of special ticketing arrangements, F is the cost of programmes and daily flying lists, G is the cost of the FRIAT related communications gear and H is the cost of the FRIAT staff costs for the year.
If that had been given and the resulting individual fee/cost been close to the £300 then we all would have blamed inflation, Covid, Boris and Putin and had little to grumble at.