NavyWings - News and Updates

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Tommy
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NavyWings - News and Updates

Post by Tommy »

I thought it was probably worth creating an actual thread for the NavyWings fleet (apols if there is one, I did search but couldn’t find anything)

I don’t think it’ll show because it’s a private Facebook Group, but the Shropshire Aviation Group has a picture supposedly from today of the Sea Hawk outside noting that she’s shortly to depart from RAF Shawbury on a lorry.

I presume to Yeovilton as NavyWings announced earlier this year that they will be returning her to flight.

Keep an eye out on the M5!

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cometguymk1
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Re: NavyWings - News and Updates

Post by cometguymk1 »

I remember seeing her fly at a Duxford airshow many years ago. Would be a welcome addition to the scene after so many jets leaving.

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Cole
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Re: NavyWings - News and Updates

Post by Cole »

Anyone know if the swordfishes have flown recently, not seem them about for a while and i vaugely remember some problem regarding engines?
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Re: NavyWings - News and Updates

Post by Wyvernfan »

cometguymk1 wrote:
Wed 25 May 2022, 9:27 am
I remember seeing her fly at a Duxford airshow many years ago. Would be a welcome addition to the scene after so many jets leaving.
I’ll second that. After losing both the Sea Vixen and Sea Fury from the airshow scene, getting the Sea Hawk flying again really is the best way forward for Navy Wings IMO (Nene spares availability allowing)!

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Re: NavyWings - News and Updates

Post by centaurus18 »

Cole wrote:
Wed 25 May 2022, 10:30 am
Anyone know if the swordfishes have flown recently, not seem them about for a while and i vaugely remember some problem regarding engines?
No............ although one on overhaul is close to the installation/test stage...all being well W5856 will fly before the end of the season.

Sea Hawk is to be surveyed to see if it can be feasibly flown again economically..... Anyone know of any RR Nenes in India/Germany?
Mark
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Re: NavyWings - News and Updates

Post by GeeRam »

centaurus18 wrote:
Wed 25 May 2022, 1:38 pm
Cole wrote:
Wed 25 May 2022, 10:30 am
Anyone know if the swordfishes have flown recently, not seem them about for a while and i vaugely remember some problem regarding engines?
Sea Hawk is to be surveyed to see if it can be feasibly flown again economically..... Anyone know of any RR Nenes in India/Germany?
I can't see it ever flying again myself...and hadn't a long worldwide search for another suitable engine already turned up blank.
I thought the only chance it had of flying again was the proposal to use the almost identical version that was used in the T-33, but that didn't pass approval....for reasons that now escape me.

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Tommy
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Re: NavyWings - News and Updates

Post by Tommy »

Navy Wings have got two Nenes - a (correct) Mk103, and a Mk10. The ‘103 has 150 hours on it, and the 10 is zero-houred. They commissioned a feasibility study Last year on its return to flight which, notwithstanding the engines, was favourable. I presume they’ve already travelled to SHY to inspect the airframe, rather than pay for the costs of transporting it all the way down to Yeovilton for the same.

They’re sending both engines away for strip down and to see if parts from one can be used in the other (or they may have already been sent), and the aspiration is very much to get her flying again in the next few years.

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Re: NavyWings - News and Updates

Post by centaurus18 »

Navy Wings probably had no choice but to take it out of Shawbury, given its a civilian aircraft now.

I can't remember when it was moved there in the first place, I presume before RNHF (as was) moved into the large hangar Navy Wings now occupies.

It last flew in 2010 so coming up to 12 years now of inactivity.
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Re: NavyWings - News and Updates

Post by centaurus18 »

Mark
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Re: NavyWings - News and Updates

Post by GeeRam »

centaurus18 wrote:
Thu 26 May 2022, 1:04 pm
Navy Wings probably had no choice but to take it out of Shawbury, given its a civilian aircraft now.
Very likely the main reason they have to move it.
They were probably told "Move it, or loose it"

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Re: NavyWings - News and Updates

Post by Domvickery »

GeeRam wrote:
Fri 27 May 2022, 1:40 pm
centaurus18 wrote:
Thu 26 May 2022, 1:04 pm
Navy Wings probably had no choice but to take it out of Shawbury, given its a civilian aircraft now.
Very likely the main reason they have to move it.
They were probably told "Move it, or loose it"
You dont know that, the relationship with Shawbury could be tight
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Re: NavyWings - News and Updates

Post by GeeRam »

Domvickery wrote:
Fri 27 May 2022, 4:48 pm
GeeRam wrote:
Fri 27 May 2022, 1:40 pm
centaurus18 wrote:
Thu 26 May 2022, 1:04 pm
Navy Wings probably had no choice but to take it out of Shawbury, given its a civilian aircraft now.
Very likely the main reason they have to move it.
They were probably told "Move it, or loose it"
You dont know that, the relationship with Shawbury could be tight
You don't know that.
It could be anything but.

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Re: NavyWings - News and Updates

Post by DOUGHNUT »

The Sea Hawk is a "Navy Wings" aircraft why not have back a Yeovilton, even if it only goes back into storage ?
Surely easier to look after within their own hangar and it might even become an interesting attraction on any future open day.

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Re: NavyWings - News and Updates

Post by Tommy »

I guess SHY have better facilities for proper long term storage, given that that’s part of the station’s job.

I don’t think it’s a “move it or lose it” scenario - especially given it’s been ten years. If it was going to happen, one would have thought it would have happened a while ago.

I think the simplest solution is the most logical one - Navy Wings are returning it to flight, and have brought it out of storage to do so.

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Re: NavyWings - News and Updates

Post by Flare Path »

They have previously spoken about the viability - post Sea Vixen - to return the Sea Hawk to flight. I don't know about the relationship with Shawbury, but I understand the desire to have the Sea Hawk airworthy is something that has been under discussion (how serious, I don't know) for a while.

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Re: NavyWings - News and Updates

Post by GeeRam »

Tommy wrote:
Wed 01 Jun 2022, 1:43 pm
I don’t think it’s a “move it or lose it” scenario - especially given it’s been ten years. If it was going to happen, one would have thought it would have happened a while ago.
You're forgetting that it went there when it was MOD owned, when RNHF was still FAA.
It's only in past couple of years that the aircraft have been removed from the military register, and the flight aircraft moved to Navy Wings as a civilian operation. It was just a matter of time before they would have had to remove the aircraft from Shawbury and out of a MOD storage facility, whether they are were intending to try and return it to flight or not.

I still think the chances of getting the Sea Hawk in the air again, under CAA rules is ultimately very unlikely to happen, especially given the almost complete collapse of vintage jet operations in the post-Shoreham world.

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Re: NavyWings - News and Updates

Post by centaurus18 »

GeeRam wrote:
Wed 01 Jun 2022, 5:28 pm
You're forgetting that it went there when it was MOD owned, when RNHF was still FAA.
It's only in past couple of years that the aircraft have been removed from the military register, and the flight aircraft moved to Navy Wings as a civilian operation. It was just a matter of time before they would have had to remove the aircraft from Shawbury and out of a MOD storage facility, whether they are were intending to try and return it to flight or not.
Correct Shawbury will need the space with all the Hawk T.1A going into store up there, and as the SHAWK is civilian-owned... see you later.
Of course, Navy Wings has, at the moment at least, the space to take it back with comfort, even though with wings folded it could fit into a shoebox.

Will it fly again..... I don't know. RNHF wanted a jet in the collection but with the doubts over its engine life the SHAWK was withdrawn when the Sea Fury T.20 was ready to join the collection. Of course, I'd hoped Navy Wings would have taken on the Hunter PR.11 but Shoreham saw to that.
Perhaps the SHAR under rebuild in St Athan will become an associated aircraft in time?
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Re: NavyWings - News and Updates

Post by Tommy »

centaurus18 wrote:
Thu 02 Jun 2022, 10:55 am
GeeRam wrote:
Wed 01 Jun 2022, 5:28 pm
You're forgetting that it went there when it was MOD owned, when RNHF was still FAA.
It's only in past couple of years that the aircraft have been removed from the military register, and the flight aircraft moved to Navy Wings as a civilian operation. It was just a matter of time before they would have had to remove the aircraft from Shawbury and out of a MOD storage facility, whether they are were intending to try and return it to flight or not.
Correct Shawbury will need the space with all the Hawk T.1A going into store up there, and as the SHAWK is civilian-owned... see you later.
Of course, Navy Wings has, at the moment at least, the space to take it back with comfort, even though with wings folded it could fit into a shoebox.
You’ve sort of undone yourself a bit? If the Sea Hawk can “fit in a shoebox”, then presumably it wasn’t taking a tremendous amount of space in the hangars such that it was pressing for it to go? If Shawbury are really that desperate for space, then, to me at least, an aircraft with folding wings that can fit in a shoebox wouldn’t be the most amazing place to start.

As for the retirement of the Hawk T1s, the bulk of them were retired and stored years ago with no issue. The Reds have just expanded their fleet at Scampton to take on more jets because of their increased duties, and if Shawbury really were that desperate for space they either would (or perhaps already have) shifted all those Tucanos for a start (and soon the Gazelles, too).

Of course, you may both be right, but as I said, the simplest solution is probably the most logical one. Navy Wings have said it’s their first btw toon to restore it to flight, and bringing it out of storage is a natural part of that, surely? Unless either of you have seen anything official to the contrary, of course.

It’s probably moot anyway, no ill will is meant in my post, I add. It just strikes me as quite speculative.

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Re: NavyWings - News and Updates

Post by centaurus18 »

Tommy wrote:
Thu 02 Jun 2022, 8:25 pm
You’ve sort of undone yourself a bit? If the Sea Hawk can “fit in a shoebox”, then presumably it wasn’t taking a tremendous amount of space in the hangars such that it was pressing for it to go? If Shawbury are really that desperate for space, then, to me at least, an aircraft with folding wings that can fit in a shoebox wouldn’t be the most amazing place to start.

As for the retirement of the Hawk T1s, the bulk of them were retired and stored years ago with no issue. The Reds have just expanded their fleet at Scampton to take on more jets because of their increased duties, and if Shawbury really were that desperate for space they either would (or perhaps already have) shifted all those Tucanos for a start (and soon the Gazelles, too).

Of course, you may both be right, but as I said, the simplest solution is probably the most logical one. Navy Wings have said it’s their first btw toon to restore it to flight, and bringing it out of storage is a natural part of that, surely? Unless either of you have seen anything official to the contrary, of course.

It’s probably moot anyway, no ill will is meant in my post, I add. It just strikes me as quite speculative.
The shoebox comment related to the decision to put it into Shawbury in the first place. There was potentially enough space at Yeovilton to store it but for whatever (plausible) reason it went into Shawbury.
It had sat quite quietly in the RNHF hangar for years in the 80s and 90s dormant, wings folded. RNHF also had a small adjacent building that held the 'spares' Sea Fury T.20 in it for instance (which left for Duxford a few years before '908 went to Shawbury).
At the time of the SHAWK's move out, many thought it's flying days were over due to the engine issues. RNHF did undertake a survey checking out the possibility of using RR Nenes from Canadian T-33s, but it was deemed a no go by those that did the investigation on its behalf.

Its recent move out of a military storage facility was inevitable as soon as it was transferred to Navy Wings and the G-register.
it would be like storing your car in someone else's garage, and expecting them to pay the rent, heating and electricity bills for you!

I want it to fly again believe me, but I can equally see it not doing so ever again.
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Re: NavyWings - News and Updates

Post by Mike »

centaurus18 wrote:
Thu 02 Jun 2022, 10:55 am
Perhaps the SHAR under rebuild in St Athan will become an associated aircraft in time?
50 quid says there will never, ever, EVER be a civilian Harrier, of any type, flying in the U.K. under the auspices of the CAA.

Any takers?

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Re: NavyWings - News and Updates

Post by Domvickery »

Mike wrote:
Thu 02 Jun 2022, 9:31 pm
centaurus18 wrote:
Thu 02 Jun 2022, 10:55 am
Perhaps the SHAR under rebuild in St Athan will become an associated aircraft in time?
50 quid says there will never, ever, EVER be a civilian Harrier, of any type, flying in the U.K. under the auspices of the CAA.

Any takers?
I’ll take that bet
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Re: NavyWings - News and Updates

Post by GeeRam »

Tommy wrote:
Thu 02 Jun 2022, 8:25 pm
centaurus18 wrote:
Thu 02 Jun 2022, 10:55 am
GeeRam wrote:
Wed 01 Jun 2022, 5:28 pm
You're forgetting that it went there when it was MOD owned, when RNHF was still FAA.
It's only in past couple of years that the aircraft have been removed from the military register, and the flight aircraft moved to Navy Wings as a civilian operation. It was just a matter of time before they would have had to remove the aircraft from Shawbury and out of a MOD storage facility, whether they are were intending to try and return it to flight or not.
Correct Shawbury will need the space with all the Hawk T.1A going into store up there, and as the SHAWK is civilian-owned... see you later.
Of course, Navy Wings has, at the moment at least, the space to take it back with comfort, even though with wings folded it could fit into a shoebox.
You’ve sort of undone yourself a bit? If the Sea Hawk can “fit in a shoebox”, then presumably it wasn’t taking a tremendous amount of space in the hangars such that it was pressing for it to go? If Shawbury are really that desperate for space, then, to me at least, an aircraft with folding wings that can fit in a shoebox wouldn’t be the most amazing place to start.
And you keep ignoring the point that Shawbury is a MOD base, and the Sea Hawk is now a civilian owned aircraft. Its not about the space being taken up, small or otherwise, it now no longer has any right to be there, since its no longer MOD property. It was just a matter of time before the MOD bean counters asked for it to be moved out of Shawbury.

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Re: NavyWings - News and Updates

Post by Tommy »

I’m not ignoring it, nor did I forget it. I already dealt with it, but to reiterate - aircraft were transferred to Navy Wings a few years ago. If the above was the case, then i’d have thought that the MoD would have turfed out the Sea Hawk then?

As I’ve said numerous times, the pair of you may be correct, but you’re talking the reason the Sea Hawk has been taken out of storage is because Shawbury didn’t want/couldn’t accommodate it as though it’s a fact, and you haven’t backed it up with anything official.

My view, backed up with an official statement by NavyWings, is that the reason they’ve removed it from storage is to restore it to flight, which is also the simplest explanation for why it has been removed now. If “it had no right to be there”, then surely the MoD would have turfed it out of there three or four years ago? If hangar space is at a premium, then the Sea Hawk would be an odd place to start given it’s acknowledged tiny footprint and you can only remove that particular airframe, rather than a batch of, say, Tucanos.

I’m unsure why this is so controversial? I’ve said numerous times that you two could well be correct but you’ve provided no evidence of it, is all.

I won’t argue this point any further because it’s getting a little tiresome now.

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Re: NavyWings - News and Updates

Post by purple_95 »

Mike wrote:
Thu 02 Jun 2022, 9:31 pm
centaurus18 wrote:
Thu 02 Jun 2022, 10:55 am
Perhaps the SHAR under rebuild in St Athan will become an associated aircraft in time?
50 quid says there will never, ever, EVER be a civilian Harrier, of any type, flying in the U.K. under the auspices of the CAA.

Any takers?
Another good myth the CAA will never allow a Harrier up, a bit like the CAA will never let a Lightning fly under civilian ownership (XR724 final flight was on the civilian register), and the same was said about civilian operation of the Vulcan and Sea Vixen in the 80s.

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Re: NavyWings - News and Updates

Post by Cole »

purple_95 wrote:
Sat 04 Jun 2022, 9:15 pm
Mike wrote:
Thu 02 Jun 2022, 9:31 pm
centaurus18 wrote:
Thu 02 Jun 2022, 10:55 am
Perhaps the SHAR under rebuild in St Athan will become an associated aircraft in time?
50 quid says there will never, ever, EVER be a civilian Harrier, of any type, flying in the U.K. under the auspices of the CAA.

Any takers?
Another good myth the CAA will never allow a Harrier up, a bit like the CAA will never let a Lightning fly under civilian ownership (XR724 final flight was on the civilian register), and the same was said about civilian operation of the Vulcan and Sea Vixen in the 80s.
IIRC A few years ago 2019ish it think, im sure someone looking into a return to flight project said about the CAA allowing it to be on the register and fly but there was a caveat around hovering and vstol flight. Might have read this or might have dreamt it !
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