RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

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DeanW
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by DeanW »

Tommy wrote:
Thu 21 Jul 2022, 2:48 pm
iainpeden wrote:
Thu 21 Jul 2022, 8:48 am

The very fact that theE-4B turned up suggests no misunderstandings because that would have been the easiest of the lot to withdraw for "operational causes."
This.

And, additionally, if some sort of misunderstanding re the Thunderbirds really was the case, then surely the B-52s would never have been approved and confirmed in the first place. We know how DBH are sticklers for getting the full and proper approvals before announcing anything.

Regardless - it’s done now, and the show was what it was (for me, a belter!)
Exactly. Additionally a pair of B-52s cancelled from Thunder Over Michigan (also 16th-17th July) at relatively late notice last week, suggesting it's a fleet or finance issue.

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DerekGM6
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by DerekGM6 »

This year's show was outstanding. I was there camping from Wednesday evening to Monday lunchtime yet departed with great reluctance.

I am hugely impressed by the organisation of RIAT. To me as an outsider it all seemed to go like clockwork. I'm sure there were things that went wrong but if so they were not obvious. I am in awe of the team that puts this show together. A huge vote of thanks from me. One little detail that impressed me: I am told by a former air cadet that at the crack of dawn on departures day, a thousand of them are scouring the tarmac for foreign objects that could be ingested by the departing aircraft. It is not something that really crosses anybody's mind yet it is so important, and executed so well. Also, As pointed out by an earlier poster from beyond our UK shores, we are exceptionally lucky to have this amazing air show put on for us.

I agree with some earlier posts about the Red Arrows though. Maybe it's because I have seen them multiple times over the last twenty years, but they just don't seem to have the wow factor these days. A complete rethink is necessary, as I was much more impressed by the Black Eagles and Frecce Tricolori.
That is not meant as a criticism as they are always technically superb, it's just that sometimes one just needs to reboot the brand, as it were.

bobby 1211
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by bobby 1211 »

DerekGM6 wrote:
Thu 21 Jul 2022, 5:33 pm
That is not meant as a criticism as they are always technically superb, it's just that sometimes one just needs to reboot the brand, as it were.
Next year they will probably go back to their usual 9-ship display, add/change a few manoeuvres and that's it. People will still love them, they will be the main attraction to seaside shows etc. I have to say I am bored with the red arrows. I wish they will at least upgrade to the Hawk T2 which would change their display massively. And I've seen a few say they should fly the typhoons instead 😂 that would be great but the cost of fuel, maintenance etc would be filthy.

melodrama
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by melodrama »

Yes, agree with the previous comment about the Reds. Back to a 9-ship and with Hawk T2s, they would again be outstanding. I've seen some wonderful displays from them over the years and never get 'bored' with them. But the interesting thing here is perception: I also thought the Frecce Tricolori were amazing this time, but what did they do differently to previous years? Not a lot, I'd say, yet we all thought they were magnificent. The Black Eagles, however ... on Sunday I'd say that was the best formation aerobatics display by a jet team I've ever seen - and I've seen them all. I may be forgetting about Ray Hanna's Reds back in the day however. The Patrouille let's not forget are top drawer too, but again may be suffering from having an aged aeroplane, beautiful thought the Alpha Jet is.

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pbeardmore
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by pbeardmore »

IMHO, with any display team, you have the technical content and then you have the way it is presented. You can take the same tech content and add drama and passion with music, exciting commentary etc. The Reds seem to just "go through the motions"
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BrawlerO
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by BrawlerO »

In terms of entertainment, the Reds are just boring..the others are more fun/interesting.

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Bodz156
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Bodz156 »

DerekGM6 wrote:
Thu 21 Jul 2022, 5:33 pm
One little detail that impressed me: I am told by a former air cadet that at the crack of dawn on departures day, a thousand of them are scouring the tarmac for foreign objects that could be ingested by the departing aircraft. It is not something that really crosses anybody's mind yet it is so important,
It crosses my mind, I made extra effort this year to make sure we left 0 rubbish lying around - given the weather forecast for the Monday I knew I wouldn't want to be the person trekking around that huge airfield picking rubbish up in that heat. It always slightly annoys me the way people leave all sorts of stuff lying around, saw the usual food detritus & even sunglasses discarded this year....other years it's been broken umbrellas just left by the fence or on the grass!

Luke28
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Luke28 »

Bodz156 wrote:
Fri 22 Jul 2022, 7:38 am
DerekGM6 wrote:
Thu 21 Jul 2022, 5:33 pm
One little detail that impressed me: I am told by a former air cadet that at the crack of dawn on departures day, a thousand of them are scouring the tarmac for foreign objects that could be ingested by the departing aircraft. It is not something that really crosses anybody's mind yet it is so important,
other years it's been broken umbrellas just left by the fence or on the grass!
I've got a broken golf umbrella in my boot from Thursdays P&V East thanks to Frecce's jet wash when they turned and held for a while towards the crowd. Its not quite up there with Couteau Delta having a vandetta against DSLR's in 2019(?) but its a nice little story and memory for me :)

JMC
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by JMC »

Does anyone have any footage of the Zeus incident?

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DerekF
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by DerekF »

No footage but these were taken as he roared overhead the Cotswold Club. Surprised he was allowed to carry on to be honest.

ImageaaD750_02_DSC_3714 -1 by Derek N.Ferguson, on Flickr

ImageaaD750_02_DSC_3715 -1 by Derek N.Ferguson, on Flickr

To say it took me a bit by surprise would be an understatement.

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G-CVIX
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by G-CVIX »

JMC wrote:
Fri 22 Jul 2022, 8:01 am
Does anyone have any footage of the Zeus incident?
I haven't seen any footage but IMO it wasn't so bad. He definitely busted the crowdline but it seemed pretty high up to me to be honest. I was a little surprised he wasn't told to stop but I imagine he was spoken to and technically wasn't it a rehearsal, not a display? (I may be wrong on that point - it was a long week)
Last edited by G-CVIX on Fri 22 Jul 2022, 9:12 am, edited 3 times in total.

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capercaillie
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by capercaillie »

He came over our heads, he was low, not dangerous, but he just screwed his postioning up from the previous descending turn, rest of the display was fine.
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JMC
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by JMC »

One thing I noticed is on the Friday he done two rolls before turning and ending up over the crowd and then on Saturday it was just the one.

Me thinks the pilot was a little pumped up.

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Bodz156
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Bodz156 »

The 'Zeus' demo was supposed to be rehearsing on the Thursday afternoon, but ended up binning the attempt as he was sat holding at the 'Foxtrot North' for ages waiting for approval to start. Imagine the Friday morning rehearse wouldn't have occurred at all had he been slotted in as planned on Thursday....

Just one amongst a number of 'interesting' timing issues on the Thursday arrivals this year :grin:

JMC
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by JMC »

Credit where due though, as they've certainly beefed up the display. I remember 2016 it displayed somewhere over Brize!

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Pat Murphy
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Pat Murphy »

My Thoughts for Wednesday to Friday.

Wednesday: Occasionally slow but there were 3 years to catch up on with people not seen in ages, so it wasn't noticed that much. Minor gripe, why have they stopped using the carpark right outside the entry tent for P&V East? Carrying a whole load of tackle from Red Carpark to the fence was an unnecessary pain as the disabled parking area was hardly brimming with cars??

Thursday: Fantastic, a vintage arrivals day with rehearsals thrown in.

Friday: Outstanding!!! I'd have paid the entrance ticket for the last 45 minutes alone!! :100: :100:

Credit to the team at DBH for a great list of rarities, The Swedes, The E4, The A4!!! Austrian Demo team (really impressed by this)

On to 2023. Does anyone know how sales went on FRIAT passes for next year...asking for a friend :wink:

The only downside from the week away was I brought home a nasty little thing called Covid :mask: Two and half years I've dodged this little sod.....

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Bodz156
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Bodz156 »

Think Wednesday suffered quite badly with the cancellations, which made it seem slower than it should have been really. Had 2 B-52s turned up, the 3 Swedish Gripens & SK60s and the 2nd German NH-90 that was listed for that day, it would have been a good day. Some of these moving to Thursday made an already busy day manic at times..

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capercaillie
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by capercaillie »

I thought Wednesday was reasonably normal to be honest and had more movements than the last couple of RIATs. I think what was perhaps noticeable is more display aircraft waited until Thursday to arrive, meaning few practices on Wednesday causing a delay which pushed through to Friday morning and indeed the Spanish Hornet and Irish team didn't get a rehearsal in at all.

By the time the show started we only lost the Swedish Sk60s, Polish Bryza (reached Marham apparently) and the US Navy P-8 (one still made Farnborough) of note that were extra. The second Puma was withdrawn for operational back up for another that had gone sick, why they kept the special back and not the one they sent I've no idea.
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grant_w
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by grant_w »

I really enjoyed Friday and Saturday.
Arrived around 7 on Friday, straight into the car park and joined the queue. We were inside the airfield at about 7:40.
Saturday we arrived in the car park at about 6:00 and parked in the 2nd row, but the queue was about 3 times the length of the day before, with far fewer cars in the car park, I can only assume it was people from the camp site next door.
Glad they had people stopping people joining in the queue half way when coming from the campsite, a few years ago they just merged in and held everyone else up who had been queueing much earlier. Top marks to all parking and RIAT staff for the way the car parks and queues were done.

If I had 1 minor gripe, and I realise this is a "moon on a stick" thing, I wish there was a way of having a First-in, First-out system in the car parks. We arrive in the blue car park, get right to the front of car park 1, then when you leave you are literally at the back of the queue and have to wait for car parks 2-7 to empty before you get a look in.
Saying that, I left the showground at 7:30 on Saturday and we were on the M4 within 30-40 minutes, so it wasn't bad at all.

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Manxman
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Manxman »

My thoughts from RIAT this year. Usually have done Saturday-Monday in the past; and Saturday 2019 felt like a hard one to top. This year by the time I decided this year was worthwhile Departures was already sold out for advance tickets, so decided to go for Thursday-Saturday instead; and that ended up being a great choice - really enjoyed doing things a little differently this year!

Arrivals: first time doing an arrivals day rather than departures and was hoping it wouldn't be a slow day, and it certainly wasn't with almost continuous activity for 10 hours- plus getting to see the majority of the statics I was after in the air. Well worthwhile and probably will be doing arrivals over departures next time round. Queueing and entry just like departures so knew what to expect, but pleasingly the runway facing fence line wasn't too densely packed so second row worked well. I was pleased not to hear others being told to get down from small steps when they were set back from the fence - a normal feature of departures in previous years. Glad I knew what to expect when to Chinook landed right in front of us - turned my back to it and held onto my cap; a lot of people seemed to loose hats and think a couple of umbrellas were wrecked!

Friday/Saturday:
Flying - Some may love it to be fast jet packed, personally really enjoyed the variety of this years display. Yes probably more Pilatus aircraft than ever featured before but otherwise a fair balance of fast jets, teams, rotary's and a couple of heavies (in flypasts at least).
Black Eagles - Great display with a mix of both formation work but also an element of putting the T-50 through its paces. Thoroughly impressed by the Tornado break-to-land from the high display, not a manoeuvre I've seen a team perform before. Also liked the subtlety of changing white smoke to blue/red in some manoeuvres on Friday to make them more visible against the cloud - nice touch showing they're conscious of what the crowd sees.
Red Arrows - echo what others have said, technically very well flown but to me it's much of same old, same old. The commentary sounded very much read from the script, certainly some of Mike Ling's passion missing.
Irish and French Pilatus's - Two new displays and two slightly different reactions. French PC-21s were tight and flown fast, but felt quite distant and a slower paced display. The Irish was a nice neat display, flown slower but compensated by being closer to the crowd.
Czech and Hungarian Helo's - Three displays I've never seen before and a big selling point that got me sold on this years show. Czech Hip/Hind; really enjoyed seeing two large helicopters of different types perform a joint display. Liked seeing the almost role demo element of Hip dropping to the ground and Hind doing top cover. With two Hinds in the display had wondered if it would end up being a bit samey but no - two very different displays with the Hungarians slinging theirs around a bit more a showing what the aircraft is capable of where the Czech was more about two-ship flying. As for the Sokol - lovely to see. Slinging the winchman round on the rope was impressive - rather them than me! Glad I got as close to crowd centre as I did for this display - small helicopter on a long display line.
Flypasts - 727 with spray arms out, nice touch, didn't expect. P8 and Arrows ; would have been nice if the P8 could have done a solo pass while the Reds formed up to start their display, doubt fuel would have been an issue as the P8 went for some circuit bashing at Doncaster afterward. Unannounced ZZ336 and Arrows, another nice to see. I'm guessing the high commitments of the Voyagers meant it was an on-the-day operational decision whether the Voyager would be available. Beluga XL, wow! Great to see, and as contrasting an aircraft from much of the display I can imagine. The banked turn at the end of the pass was pretty tight too.
Fast jets - Austrian Typhoon QRA was great, just the sort of thing that gets me returning to RIAT year after year. May not have been technical flying but some high power chasing plus some demonstration of real world practices, very nice! Hungarian Gripen spitting flames was a bit of a surprise.

Statics - Just like the flying a great variety, with some gems among it. Got on board the Canadian A310, being there as they opened up was perfect, this being an aircraft I've been wanting to attend since 2010! Likewise a look over the Clank was a treat too. A lot of comments have been made about USAF but little mention of the layout of the static element - personally loved the layout of warbird and current firepower side-by-side. Equally posing the Birdog and C337 next to CV22 and MC130 as two very different generations of special operations aircraft. I know backdrops are a gripe for a lot so I won't repeat that, but for the most part the fences/cones were set back enough for clear views where at time in they have been too close in. This was especially true for the E4B and A340 - big aircraft which could have been obstructed from every angle but pleasingly weren't.
The tribute to Colonel Oksanchenko was truly touching - credit to whoever though of it and set it up. I'm not sure quite why but the placing of chocks for the missing aircraft struck me.

Fridays highlight arrivals of A4, Swedes and E4B made the whole three days worth it, just wow! I'm sure the E4B arriving on Friday was for operational reasons, but for the A4 and Swedes I do hope that Friday was chosen to give the maximum number of people to see them in the air. Also credit for allowing all of them to perform a proper pass of the crowd before landing. The Draken afterburner on go-round was stunning.

Aside from the aircraft - arrived on Friday and Saturday through the green car parks and entrance, about 06:30 both days. Friday in particular the road seemed quiet, used to queuing on the roads into the car park but straight in both days. Getting through the entrance was fairly smooth. If the green zone is closed again on Friday next year it may be worth some more notices to make it clear everyone has to get on a bus into the showground, a lot seemed not to expect it. It also meant that while there were enough doubledeck buses to move everyone , people dragging trollies etc were filling the lower deck and blocking access to the the upper deck with plenty of space. Something to consider next time round.
Was also surprised how smooth getting on the road at the end of the day Saturday. Again normally the green car parks are back up by 19:00 but this year it has thinned out massively. Perhaps a greater proportion of people left early in the heat!
Speaking of heat well done to all of the staff, volunteers and aircrew who worked on through such draining heat. Given the forecast temperatures and all the announcements of keeping hydrated there could have been more water bowsers. At about 15:00 on Saturday I had frunk most of the fluids I had brought in with me so went to fill up a bottle. I started out in the crowd behind the KC46, asked a RIAT volunteer where the nearest bowser who recommended one in the green zone would be closer - which turned out to be opposite the Clank. A fair hike in the temperature - only to find it empty and people being recommended to head to the blue zone (where I had come from!). It may have only been 800ish metres walk there and back but in the heat and now without water I could have done without.

If you've read through all that then well done! However a bigger well done to Peter and co., and everyone else who delivered a stunning show. The countdown is once again on and let's see what 2023 will bring!
David K- Manx spotter

p2philip
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by p2philip »

melodrama wrote:
Thu 21 Jul 2022, 10:24 pm
I also thought the Frecce Tricolori were amazing this time, but what did they do differently to previous years?
In terms of RIAT one difference was that the vertical split and following mass crossover were not flown. Would be interesting to know if that’s because of some sort of restriction in UK regulations? It is still part of the 2022 display as seen at other events. Frecce were superb but would have been even better without one of the key manoeuvres missing.

In general there were some minor changes in fairly recent times like replacing the “eagle” formation crossover with the head-on double split and using coloured smoke more often. Otherwise their show has been pretty much the same for a long time. Never change a running system I guess…it is a fantastic choreography flown with passion. The dynamic and solo moves alternating with the formations make it more interesting. I much prefer this sort of display rather than splitting it in two parts like the Reds do.

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Jonnym
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by Jonnym »

Bodz156 wrote:
Fri 22 Jul 2022, 7:38 am

It crosses my mind, I made extra effort this year to make sure we left 0 rubbish lying around - given the weather forecast for the Monday I knew I wouldn't want to be the person trekking around that huge airfield picking rubbish up in that heat. It always slightly annoys me the way people leave all sorts of stuff lying around, saw the usual food detritus & even sunglasses discarded this year....other years it's been broken umbrellas just left by the fence or on the grass!
On returning to my car in Blue after the show on the saturday, someone had left a large bag of leftover food and rubbish on my car roof. Lovely. 🙄

verreli
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by verreli »

Jonnym wrote:
Sat 23 Jul 2022, 7:00 am
On returning to my car in Blue after the show on the saturday, someone had left a large bag of leftover food and rubbish on my car roof. Lovely. 🙄
RIAT really does attract the full range of people from society.

UKTopgun
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by UKTopgun »

While queueing for Red I looked around and tried to sum up the RIAT demographic and the closest comparison I could draw was a Formula 1 / Motorsport crowd.

FarnboroJohn
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Re: RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

Post by FarnboroJohn »

verreli wrote:
Sat 23 Jul 2022, 9:24 am
Jonnym wrote:
Sat 23 Jul 2022, 7:00 am
On returning to my car in Blue after the show on the saturday, someone had left a large bag of leftover food and rubbish on my car roof. Lovely. 🙄
RIAT really does attract the full range of people from society.
I'm still quite surprised because I saw many who seemed to have no concept of leftover food.

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