Save "Black Mike" Group

[FGR2]

Not sure whether anyone has seen this.

They are aiming to raise money and get it to Bruntingthorpe.

http://www.xv582blackmike.co.uk/#

[Unknown74]

Why Bruntingthorpe? Surely there are other Air Museums in the UK she could go to? Why not East Fortune that US Marine Phantom somehow looks out of place. Others I could think of are Yorkshire Elvington, Coventry, Sunderland or Cosford. I would have said Duxford but they already have a perfectly suitable RAF Phantom in their collection.

Just my opinion.

[ALAN L]

Why not Brunty ?
It is home to the Cold war jets collection and has a useable runway and a history of preserving and operating jets that are regularly run ?

Maybe the organisers are local..

[boff180]

Why Bruntingthorpe? Surely there are other Air Museums in the UK she could go to? Why not East Fortune that US Marine Phantom somehow looks out of place. Others I could think of are Yorkshire Elvington, Coventry, Sunderland or Cosford. I would have said Duxford but they already have a perfectly suitable RAF Phantom in their collection.

Just my opinion.

There can be a variety of possible reasons for Brunty being cited, I've listed three below.

1. For the project to be viable the group may need confirmation of interest from a museum or a location to house the aircraft. It could be that Bruntingthorpe is the only museum that has provided that interest.
2. A number of museums operate a policy for which aircraft they acquire as exhibits, these policies can range from only exhibiting one example of a type to only acquiring aircraft of historical significance. It may be that what an enthusiast may consider as a viable museum for its display may not want the aircraft in the first place due to its policies.
3. It could be that a group member has contacts with Brunty and can easily arrange for the aircraft to moved there.

End of the day, who cares where the aircraft is displayed as long as it is saved, maintained in good condition, in the UK and on public display.

Andy

[ArabJazzie]

Hi all,
I would doubt(or hope!) that this or the Lightning will end up at Brunters. I also have it on good authority that BM will never be a runner again. There was something done to it(cant remember what!) that was a condition of its survival when other Phantoms were scrapped at the time.
Arabest,
Geoff.

[Buzz]

I hope they're successful! Is it fairly complete and in a good condition???

[boff180]

Hi all,
I would doubt(or hope!) that this or the Lightning will end up at Brunters. I also have it on good authority that BM will never be a runner again. There was something done to it(cant remember what!) that was a condition of its survival when other Phantoms were scrapped at the time.
Arabest,
Geoff.

I understand a number of the (if not all) preserved F-4's in the States have had their wing spar cut so that they cannot fly again as part of post cold war treaties, perhaps BM also fell victim to this?

[ArabJazzie]

I understand a number of the (if not all) preserved F-4's in the States have had their wing spar cut so that they cannot fly again as part of post cold war treaties, perhaps BM also fell victim to this?

Dont think its that Boff,
It was more to do with inside the fuselage, but the conversation took place nearly 20 years ago!

Erm! Hang on a wee minute! 20 YEARS!!!!

Dont time fly when yir havin fun watching Tornados and Typhoons!!!
Arabest,
Geoff.

[vulcan558]

I understand a number of the (if not all) preserved F-4's in the States have had their wing spar cut so that they cannot fly again as part of post cold war treaties, perhaps BM also fell victim to this?

Dont think its that Boff,
It was more to do with inside the fuselage, but the conversation took place nearly 20 years ago!

Erm! Hang on a wee minute! 20 YEARS!!!!

Dont time fly when yir havin fun watching Tornados and Typhoons!!!
Arabest,
Geoff.

would have thought that it could be a ground runner again, plenty of Knowledge at Brunty on how to run Spey engines.

[Unknown74]

I have always thought that Black Mike has already had it's engines removed after it's last flight. Also would have thought that the deal with the Americans would have been to remove the engines so they couldn't be flown again. If that had been the case there would be more on Museum Display.

[T_J]

Is there a ready supply of Mk202 Speys around? No problem the Chinese make the Spey under license and we supplied them with 90 Mk202s from the Phantom fleet back in 2001.

The following from edisposals.

Spey Mk202 Engines. The contract to supply 90 Spey Mk 202 engines to an overseas customer, which started in 2000, was successfully completed on schedule in June 2001. The engines, which were sold through Rolls Royce plc and also included a large package of ex-RAF spares supplied by Military Aircraft Spares Limited, were originally fitted to the RAF’s Phantom aircraft until they were retired from service.

The Chinse use the Spey in the Xian JH-7 Flounder.

http://www.airliners.net/photo/China--- ... /1424963/L

Further to the above I've just remembered that Black Mike is an FG1 (F4K) and powered by MK201 Speys.

[fg1]

To me, if they could get it taxiing it would mean more than XH558 getting off the ground. Good luck to all those involved.

[stratocaster]

If it spends its time in a museum be it Bruntingthorpe,Duxford,East Fortune or wherever,at least its preservation is assured.Much as we'd all love to see an ex RAF flying example of an F-4, we won't,so the next best thing to that is preservation in a museum.It would still be at Leuchars if the Government hadn't foolishly cut defence budgets and booted the RAF out of Leuchars.

[Spiny Norman]

It should be at East Fortune, it's the national aviation museum in Scotland and Black Mike spent most (all?) of its time in service north of the border. It could still be pulled out at airshow time and the kids can get their picture taken in the cockpit for years to come.

PS - What's happening to the 111 Squadron Lightning?

[Craig]

It should be at East Fortune, it's the national aviation museum in Scotland and Black Mike spent most (all?) of its time in service north of the border. It could still be pulled out at airshow time and the kids can get their picture taken in the cockpit for years to come.

PS - What's happening to the 111 Squadron Lightning?

Plus of course there's the second Phantom and F3 on the gate...

[Davef68]

I'd support a campaign to save Black Mike but one that was keeping it in Scotland, not dragging it 400 miles away never to be seen again.

[rob68]

Morayvia ????

[Unknown74]

I've got a few suggestions about where Black Mike should spend her well earned retirement, how about Montrose or as rob68 has suggested hows about Morayvia or even The Inverness Aviation Museum? Another would be Dumfries and Galloway Aviation Museum.

[boff180]

I'm sorry, am I reading this correctly.

There are people on here actually saying that they would only support Black Mike being saved if she stayed in Scotland.....

... who gives a hoot where she is being kept, the priority has to be to save her first, then argue where she will go....

[Spiny Norman]

It should be at East Fortune, it's the national aviation museum in Scotland and Black Mike spent most (all?) of its time in service north of the border. It could still be pulled out at airshow time and the kids can get their picture taken in the cockpit for years to come.

PS - What's happening to the 111 Squadron Lightning?

Plus of course there's the second Phantom and F3 on the gate...

Maybe there's a cunning plan to distribute them round the country's aviation museums and the details are just being finalised.

[Craig]

It should be at East Fortune, it's the national aviation museum in Scotland and Black Mike spent most (all?) of its time in service north of the border. It could still be pulled out at airshow time and the kids can get their picture taken in the cockpit for years to come.

PS - What's happening to the 111 Squadron Lightning?

Plus of course there's the second Phantom and F3 on the gate...

Maybe there's a cunning plan to distribute them round the country's aviation museums and the details are just being finalised.

I sincerely hope you're right

[Davef68]

I'm sorry, am I reading this correctly.

There are people on here actually saying that they would only support Black Mike being saved if she stayed in Scotland.....

... who gives a hoot where she is being kept, the priority has to be to save her first, then argue where she will go....

T
This one doesn't say that though - it says it's aim is to 'save' her and keep her at Bruntingthorpe - twofold. If it was a campaign just to save BM then I'd support it.

In fact, this one seems less about saving BM than giving themselves a Phantom to play with. Perhaps they don't know just how iconic that Phantom is in Scotland?

[Gregg]

It's more to do with the level of expertise and experience in restoring, maintaining and operating these old aircraft. Not only that Bruntingthorpe has the advantage of free and easy access to 2 miles of runway, plenty of space on the pans and a very enthusiastic owner who bends over backwards to help the various groups based there.

There's other locations that undoubtably offer some of the above but nowhere else can offer all of the above.

[vandal]

I hope they're successful! Is it fairly complete and in a good condition???

Gets wheeled out at the Leuchars Airshow every year for the cockpit photo's.

[Spiny Norman]

It's more to do with the level of expertise and experience in restoring, maintaining and operating these old aircraft. Not only that Bruntingthorpe has the advantage of free and easy access to 2 miles of runway, plenty of space on the pans and a very enthusiastic owner who bends over backwards to help the various groups based there.

There's other locations that undoubtably offer some of the above but nowhere else can offer all of the above.

I'm sure that's true, but Black Mike hasn't moved under its own steam for 20 years and as mentioned there is some affiliation to its neighbourhood.

Does anyone know what 111 Squadron's take on all of this is?