First North Korean air show

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Dan O'Hagan
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Re: First North Korean air show

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

Aviamil wrote:Hi all,

I can confirm all went fairly well,Sam had a great time......He will miss it for sure!

At times access was a bit controlled but we have all got some great shots, unique shots and I can certainly say we are fed some rubbish about the country too from our own media.

So, great weather, great hosts, good beer.

Tired but safe to say we all enjoyed it

Cheers
Marc


I believe they call it "Stockholm Syndrome".

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DanH
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Re: First North Korean air show

Post by DanH »

Dan O'Hagan wrote:
Aviamil wrote:Hi all,

I can confirm all went fairly well,Sam had a great time......He will miss it for sure!

At times access was a bit controlled but we have all got some great shots, unique shots and I can certainly say we are fed some rubbish about the country too from our own media.

So, great weather, great hosts, good beer.

Tired but safe to say we all enjoyed it

Cheers
Marc


I believe they call it "Stockholm Syndrome".


More likely that what they have seen of the country has been controlled in order to present it in a good light. Bet they weren't shown any prison camps or inflammatory nuclear tests.
Always seeking to lower the tone...

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Russ
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Re: First North Korean air show

Post by Russ »

Aviamil wrote:I can certainly say we are fed some rubbish about the country too from our own media.

Would be interested to hear if you can expand on this one?

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st24
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Re: First North Korean air show

Post by st24 »

DanH wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:
Aviamil wrote:Hi all,

I can confirm all went fairly well,Sam had a great time......He will miss it for sure!

At times access was a bit controlled but we have all got some great shots, unique shots and I can certainly say we are fed some rubbish about the country too from our own media.

So, great weather, great hosts, good beer.

Tired but safe to say we all enjoyed it

Cheers
Marc


I believe they call it "Stockholm Syndrome".


More likely that what they have seen of the country has been controlled in order to present it in a good light. Bet they weren't shown any prison camps or inflammatory nuclear tests.

In the same way visitors to the Dubai air show don't see public stoning to death of women, beheadings of non believers or whipping of school kids who mess up their lines of a certain book... Sounds like a great experience - beer too!!
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King Cobra
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Re: First North Korean air show

Post by King Cobra »

Aviamil wrote:Hi all,

I can confirm all went fairly well,Sam had a great time......He will miss it for sure!

At times access was a bit controlled but we have all got some great shots, unique shots and I can certainly say we are fed some rubbish about the country too from our own media.

So, great weather, great hosts, good beer.

Tired but safe to say we all enjoyed it

Cheers
Marc


No doubt you were given full and free access to the whole country to enable you to verify this.

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Brevet Cable
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Re: First North Korean air show

Post by Brevet Cable »

st24 wrote:In the same way visitors to the Dubai air show don't see public stoning to death of women, beheadings of non believers or whipping of school kids who mess up their lines of a certain book..
Or those who went to the football World Cup or the Olympics in Brazil who didn't see ( or chose to ignore ) the privation & corruption there ... and the press who saw it but - with the exception of a few individuals - chose not to report on it.
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Spiny Norman
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Re: First North Korean air show

Post by Spiny Norman »

Dan O'Hagan wrote:
Aviamil wrote:Hi all,

I can confirm all went fairly well,Sam had a great time......He will miss it for sure!

At times access was a bit controlled but we have all got some great shots, unique shots and I can certainly say we are fed some rubbish about the country too from our own media.

So, great weather, great hosts, good beer.

Tired but safe to say we all enjoyed it

Cheers
Marc


I believe they call it "Stockholm Syndrome".


Or "personal experience". Journalists do it all the time.

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Russ
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Re: First North Korean air show

Post by Russ »

It's alright, Sam seemed to be enjoying himself over there in fine company...

Image

Dragon Rapide
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Re: First North Korean air show

Post by Dragon Rapide »

I am less interested in the "rubbish" fed by the media than by the first hand "rubbish" told to us first hand by those few who have escaped the dictatorship.

There have been several filmed and audio reports from North Korea and they have all been clearly stage managed to leave the visitors with the best possible impression. All very reminiscent of Brezhnev's Soviet Union, where I spent about a month in the mid-sixties. The difference is probably that we actually had slightly more opportunity to travel within very strict limits than visitors to North Korea whose every move is monitored, overtly and covertly.
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Aviamil
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Re: First North Korean air show

Post by Aviamil »

Wow... what an expected UKAR response.
Last edited by Domvickery on Tue 27 Sep 2016, 12:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Rule 5; foul language removed.

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boff180
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Re: First North Korean air show

Post by boff180 »

They may disagree with your view (even though they haven't experienced it first hand and are being armchair experts on the matter :butt: ) Aviamil but that doesn't give you the right to throw abuse at them.

Traveller
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Re: First North Korean air show

Post by Traveller »

If anyone has problems then don't go. The only reason I didn't was because I ran out of leave. I heard from previous trips that everyone is treated superbly (provided you don't put a newspaper with Kim on the front face down). And if that were me having paid £2k then I'd be happy to be treated superbly, in fact expect it.

I suspect the airshow didnt fill the day but having the chance to fly on IL62, TU134, IL18 and just say you had been to NK sways it for me next time. And the IA trip went via the big Beijing museum also.

Aviamil
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Re: First North Korean air show

Post by Aviamil »

OK, so you post me a smiley that also shows your arse, do I put a pink wafer ???

Dragon Rapide
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Re: First North Korean air show

Post by Dragon Rapide »

Boff -that's quite right, of course, and most of the world's population comprises armchair experts simply because very very few are allowed access.

But there is sufficient information from those who have been and reported objectively together with its citizens who have escaped to tell us of their lives there to enable us to make a reasonably informed opinion.
Last edited by Dragon Rapide on Tue 27 Sep 2016, 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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boff180
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Re: First North Korean air show

Post by boff180 »

Aviamil wrote:OK, so you post me a smiley that also shows your arse, do I put a pink wafer ???

It's inside a bracket aimed at the other posters in a light hearted manner, not you.

Dragon Rapide
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Re: First North Korean air show

Post by Dragon Rapide »

Traveller - of course visitors are treated superbly!! How else would they conceivably be treated??!! And if visitors return home to tell what a marvellous place it is and how wonderful everyone is then they have done their job.
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DerekF
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Re: First North Korean air show

Post by DerekF »

Spiny Norman wrote:Looked quite a short show, but with some interesting types.

https://youtu.be/VpwdxXGbv_o



Look what you've started....

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CJS
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Re: First North Korean air show

Post by CJS »

No-one is suggesting that NK is a hotbed of democracy or civil liberties (at least I hope they're not!). Likewise, I very much doubt anyone really believes that the country Sam, Aviamil and others were shown is very close to the reality. The key point perhaps is that they were shown.

Many, if not most, countries have issues that they would rather tourists didn't know or find out about. It wouldn't be very hard to unearth extremely serious issues in many countries that we all happily visit for our holidays. The point is, we are generally speaking allowed to move unhindered around them, speak to whomever we so please and read whatever we like about the country. Then of course, we are more able to form a considered opinion.

You cannot do that in North Korea.

As for the nuclear issue - well you could argue that putting a mildly unhinged leader in charge of a nuclear arsenal is a bad idea, but it's not as if that hasn't happened in the past (or could, whisper it, again in the near future). This isn't a nuclear debate, I realise that, but why should the US, India and Pakistan (for example) be allowed them but not North Korea or Iran?

Just my tuppence worth - as others have said, you have the choice to not go if you don't agree with the country's approach to human rights, freedom of speech etc.... I personally wouldn't go, nor would I go to Saudi Arabia, Russia or the US, for similar reasons. Hypocritically however, I have visited both Iceland and Japan, despite being appalled by their continuing whaling practices. Make of that what you will.

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Russ
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Re: First North Korean air show

Post by Russ »

Aviamil wrote:Wow... what an expected UKAR response.

Err... all people have asked is that you elaborate on your claim a bit, which isn't too much to ask? As I said before I'm intrigued to hear about it.

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Re: First North Korean air show

Post by Dragon Rapide »

CJS wrote:
Hypocritically however, I have visited both Iceland and Japan, despite being appalled by their continuing whaling practices. Make of that what you will.

Chris


Don't worry, Chris - I think you'll sleep easily. I don't think you can compare whaling by two democratic nations with the lack of free speech, lack of free association and assembly, lack of rights for the individual under a democratic rule of law for that individual, forced labour camps, summary execution and the absolute and unwavering obedience and loyalty to the dictator, which is 21st century North Korea. But depends how much you like whales I guess...... :smile:
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Re: First North Korean air show

Post by capercaillie »

I like whales a lot. They don't seem to have any choice in the matter if they get barbarically hunted and killed or not either.
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DanH
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Re: First North Korean air show

Post by DanH »

Aviamil wrote:Wow... what an expected UKAR response.


Surely you would accept that the limited amount of North Korea that you were allowed to see would not be anywhere near enough for you to have gained an insight into the state of the country as a whole Secondly i would suggest that what you were allowed to see would most likely have been very carefully stage managed in order to send yourself and other visitors away with the opinion that the country has been misrepresented.
Always seeking to lower the tone...

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Dragon Rapide
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Re: First North Korean air show

Post by Dragon Rapide »

capercaillie wrote:I like whales a lot. They don't seem to have any choice in the matter if they get barbarically hunted and killed or not either.


No they don't but then neither do the thousands of human beings in North Korea. And pace any Ukarians who equate human and animal life, but I think I know which nation I'd feel more comfortable in. :smile:
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Re: First North Korean air show

Post by JBartlett »

Aviamil wrote:Hi all,

I can confirm all went fairly well,Sam had a great time......He will miss it for sure!

At times access was a bit controlled but we have all got some great shots, unique shots and I can certainly say we are fed some rubbish about the country too from our own media.

So, great weather, great hosts, good beer.

Tired but safe to say we all enjoyed it

Cheers
Marc


Hi Marc, I heard that you had to show your shots and if requested you would had to delete some?

https://theaviationist.com/?p=39934%3Fp%3D39934
http://www.combataircraft.net/2016/09/2 ... g-airshow/

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Spiny Norman
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Re: First North Korean air show

Post by Spiny Norman »

DanH wrote:
Aviamil wrote:Wow... what an expected UKAR response.


Surely you would accept that the limited amount of North Korea that you were allowed to see would not be anywhere near enough for you to have gained an insight into the state of the country as a whole Secondly i would suggest that what you were allowed to see would most likely have been very carefully stage managed in order to send yourself and other visitors away with the opinion that the country has been misrepresented.


They did get to see North Korean fighter jets which is what matters here, in my humble opinion.

Personally, I'm as interested in how the West depicts North Korea, because if it's a closed world, how do we get our information?