john001 wrote:Stars of the show will be August 1st
Heard that but they will renamed to April the 1st.
john001 wrote:Stars of the show will be August 1st
boff180 wrote:The yardstick has to be Payerne 2014 for the RAF 100th - a two week show put on by a smaller Air Force and military.
- nearly every fast jet and display team in Europe
- middle eastern display teams
- dedicated celebration consisting of...
A) early flight - bleriot
B) World War One - biplane
C) World War Two - Mustang of MS
D) Cold War - Numerous Cold War warbirds
E) Cold War flypast - aircraft in D in formation
F) heritage flight
G) Modern solo displays - (puma and Hornet)
H) modern solo pairs display
I) modern solo pairs flypast with national teams
J) mass flypast of all elements involved in B through I
K) national teams display
Oh and... a celebratory pop song released in to the charts sang by a fighter pilot...
[youtube]http://youtu.be/6HZLb7Py5qk[/youtube]
JJC wrote:Better off using it as a chance for foreign air arms to help the RAF celebrate in style, than focus largely on RAF assets. As pointed out above, their really isn't the variety/quantity of airframes available to the make the RAF the centrepiece of the show.
Get as many 'Royal' Air Forces as possible to the show?
How about some nations who have exchange programmes with RAF squadrons?
Focus on the vast plethora of nations who have had their nationals serve in RAF (a good chance for some excellent and rare contributions from across the globe - Commonwealth nations etc.)
Would be surprised if we don't see a decent contribution from the USA again, special relationship and all that.
MC hammer wrote:
My main hope is that they send more of it down to park and view west on arrival next year, 2016 was much better in this respect. Maybe a discussion for nearer the time.
Gonzo230 wrote:MC hammer wrote:
My main hope is that they send more of it down to park and view west on arrival next year, 2016 was much better in this respect. Maybe a discussion for nearer the time.
We already do it when we can and it works operationally. Believe me, the first thing we think of when we get the pre-note from Brize is 'can we roll this?'.
tu16 wrote:Out of interest, how much money did the Swiss throw at their event?
MC hammer wrote:
Thanks for the reply, your good intentions is all that I can ask for.
I appreciate that there is the potential for an aircraft to get stuck on the west loop for a while waiting for a backtrack, especially if a rehearsal is about to take place. It just hurts when gems like the Israeli C-130 and some special schemes turn off at the Charlies, without there seeming to be too much happening at the time, although via the radio, I know we are only hearing part of the bigger picture. (The Ukranians were unfortunate I know.)
My comment wasn't meant as a criticism of this year, just that presumably things were easier last year when it mattered, hence not too much missed.
My real problem is that I can normally only do the arrivals days, so if I don't get them then, that's it.
I will have every faith in the tower guys for next year, thanks for all the hard work.
Gonzo230 wrote:MC hammer wrote:
Thanks for the reply, your good intentions is all that I can ask for.
I appreciate that there is the potential for an aircraft to get stuck on the west loop for a while waiting for a backtrack, especially if a rehearsal is about to take place. It just hurts when gems like the Israeli C-130 and some special schemes turn off at the Charlies, without there seeming to be too much happening at the time, although via the radio, I know we are only hearing part of the bigger picture. (The Ukranians were unfortunate I know.)
My comment wasn't meant as a criticism of this year, just that presumably things were easier last year when it mattered, hence not too much missed.
My real problem is that I can normally only do the arrivals days, so if I don't get them then, that's it.
I will have every faith in the tower guys for next year, thanks for all the hard work.
No problem, and I wasn't taking it as criticism.
As you say, there are lots of issues that would cause aircraft not to roll, that aren't obvious even on the RT.#
There may be aircraft that have pre briefed us they want to park up ASAP because they might have a short turnaround time before rehearsal, or their support aircraft is already on the ground and needs to depart.
There may be aircraft that have extra security concerns that want to park up ASAP and be re-united with their ground security.
There may be aircraft that we could roll down to the loop but Brize have given us pre-notes on quite a few inbounds so we decide not to. We can only hold a limited number of aircraft in the loop, and they do take quite a while to backtrack. However, because we have no radar screens in the tower, there may turn out to be room after all as we don't know how Brize will vector them, or they might suddenly decide to go off for an air to air photo shoot at the last minute. The next call from Brize is a 10 mile check which by that time it's tight if we've committed to roll/backtrack.
There might be aircraft inbound that we need to get down ASAP because there's a display rehearsal/validation coming up and the pilot of that aircraft has said he needs a sterile runway (which then might not actually be quite ready for display at the scheduled time so it looks like there was plenty of time to get thing to roll).
We are all enthusiasts in the tower, and many of us are photographers (although sadly more use Canon than Nikon...........) .
The other thing to bear in mind is that we all have day jobs in completely different environments to Fairford. At LHR, LGW, Stansted, Manchester and Guernsey we are used to controlling civil IFR (well apart from Guernsey ) traffic that basically all do the same thing, with very standardised procedures, with lots of electronic tolls to support us. In the tower at Fairford there's a few paper strips, a few pens, and a radio.
On the first day of arrivals there might be an element of us all 'getting our eye in'. For me from LHR, it does take a while just to get used to using paper strips and writing on them, coming from electronic touch screen strip displays.
Hopefully that might give an idea of some of the challenges we face in the tower.
Gonzo230 wrote:MC hammer wrote:
Thanks for the reply, your good intentions is all that I can ask for.
I appreciate that there is the potential for an aircraft to get stuck on the west loop for a while waiting for a backtrack, especially if a rehearsal is about to take place. It just hurts when gems like the Israeli C-130 and some special schemes turn off at the Charlies, without there seeming to be too much happening at the time, although via the radio, I know we are only hearing part of the bigger picture. (The Ukranians were unfortunate I know.)
My comment wasn't meant as a criticism of this year, just that presumably things were easier last year when it mattered, hence not too much missed.
My real problem is that I can normally only do the arrivals days, so if I don't get them then, that's it.
I will have every faith in the tower guys for next year, thanks for all the hard work.
We are all enthusiasts in the tower, and many of us are photographers (although sadly more use Canon than Nikon...........) .
Which would mean there is nowhere to put the aircraft that arrive during the Friday. Better have aircraft for two days then aircraft not showing up at all.john001 wrote:I hope 2018 sees the end of the restricted static display on Friday. People spend a lot of money travelling from abroad and the Uk and want to maximise the opportunities of seeing aircraft in good light.
aviodromefriend wrote:Which would mean there is nowhere to put the aircraft that arrive during the Friday. Better have aircraft for two days then aircraft not showing up at all.john001 wrote:I hope 2018 sees the end of the restricted static display on Friday. People spend a lot of money travelling from abroad and the Uk and want to maximise the opportunities of seeing aircraft in good light.
The no-green deal was very well communicated since the Friday became a showday, so people do know (or better, should know) that Friday is not a full area day. Those that choose to attend and don't know that: well that is their fault.
I don't think the airfield closes earlier on Friday, the flying display ends earlier. That is something different. Still you don't say where RIAT should put the aircraft that arrives on Friday if they don't have green as an active part of the airfield, perform a FOD check after the airdield closes on Friday and put all those participants in place before the USAF kicks the RIAT volunteers out?john001 wrote:Is it beyond RIAT to add a few more aircraft to the static park or even leave space for 'the F16' that's due in on Friday - I don't think so especially when the airfield closes earlier than on other days.
A saga that goes around every year. Don't be surprised if Friday in '18 is affected by a visit from a woman that has long passed the age at which normal people retire, effecttively creating one long gap in the flying display that won't be repeated during the rest of the show.speedbird2639 wrote:I'm sure I heard the commentary team say that with effect from 2018 Friday is going to be a full show they the same as Saturday and Sunday.
aviodromefriend wrote:[quote="john001"Still you don't say where RIAT should put the aircraft that arrives on Friday if they don't have green as an active part of the airfield, perform a FOD check after the airdield closes on Friday and put all those participants in place before the USAF kicks the RIAT volunteers out?
farnboroughrob wrote:aviodromefriend wrote:[quote="john001"Still you don't say where RIAT should put the aircraft that arrives on Friday if they don't have green as an active part of the airfield, perform a FOD check after the airdield closes on Friday and put all those participants in place before the USAF kicks the RIAT volunteers out?
Simple everything has to arrive on Thursday and you open on Monday for arrivals. I would be tempted by Friday if it meant I didn't have to get there at stupid o'clock, about 9 would be great, like Yeovilton. Quite happy with a reduced display. Just make Friday fast jets only!
aviodromefriend wrote:I don't think the airfield closes earlier on Friday, the flying display ends earlier. That is something different. Still you don't say where RIAT should put the aircraft that arrives on Friday if they don't have green as an active part of the airfield, perform a FOD check after the airdield closes on Friday and put all those participants in place before the USAF kicks the RIAT volunteers out?john001 wrote:Is it beyond RIAT to add a few more aircraft to the static park or even leave space for 'the F16' that's due in on Friday - I don't think so especially when the airfield closes earlier than on other days.A saga that goes around every year. Don't be surprised if Friday in '18 is affected by a visit from a woman that has long passed the age at which normal people retire, effecttively creating one long gap in the flying display that won't be repeated during the rest of the show.speedbird2639 wrote:I'm sure I heard the commentary team say that with effect from 2018 Friday is going to be a full show they the same as Saturday and Sunday.