Where has XH558 thread gone?

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Xm657 on Wed 06 Sep 2017, 1:03 am

I've just managed to look at that photo properly. Two things occur to me:-

The hard standing appears to be just big enough for a Vulcan sized hangar but not big enough for a Canberra and Swift (and all the spares and tools aswell).

The optics of this photo reflect very badly on the VttST. Doncaster was hailed as the etopia retirement location better than all others, yet here we see 558 banished round the back next to the sewage and other bits and bobs. She looks like she's been thrown on the junk heap from this photo.
Xm657

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Saleemrama on Wed 06 Sep 2017, 3:11 pm

Xm657 wrote:I've just managed to look at that photo properly. Two things occur to me:-

The hard standing appears to be just big enough for a Vulcan sized hangar but not big enough for a Canberra and Swift (and all the spares and tools aswell).

The optics of this photo reflect very badly on the VttST. Doncaster was hailed as the etopia retirement location better than all others, yet here we see 558 banished round the back next to the sewage and other bits and bobs. She looks like she's been thrown on the junk heap from this photo.

It looks like it's about the same size as the ones in this article:
http://www.vulcantothesky.org/history/articles-of-interest/cold-war-memories/bawtry-hall-radio.html
I would think with the corners filled in on the concrete slab there would be loads of room for the Canberra etc.
Look on the bright side - because you don't need a torch to do it!

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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Xm657 on Wed 06 Sep 2017, 3:48 pm

Yes I suppose so, assuming the curreng grass areas are intended to be concreted aswell.
Xm657

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby FarnboroJohn on Wed 06 Sep 2017, 3:58 pm

Brevet Cable wrote:Again as posted on the VTTS forum, the grey 'circles' on that 'patch of ground' ( as you call it ) are bore-holes which were drilled to test the condition of the concrete below the tarmac surface.
And despite your claims of 'stumbling on' things, any & all pipework will already be on any plans of the area....it's not as if they stuck pipework & cabling underground without marking it when they built the tank farm & sewage works.


Not necessarily.... a significant building I was involved in locally had a developer who declared confidently that he'd done all the relevant searches and looked at every plan in history, and on the first day found gas and electric the hard way so had to proceed as if there was no information on any of the site! Stumbling on things does happen.

John
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby steveb23 on Wed 06 Sep 2017, 4:32 pm

FarnboroJohn wrote:
Brevet Cable wrote:Again as posted on the VTTS forum, the grey 'circles' on that 'patch of ground' ( as you call it ) are bore-holes which were drilled to test the condition of the concrete below the tarmac surface.
And despite your claims of 'stumbling on' things, any & all pipework will already be on any plans of the area....it's not as if they stuck pipework & cabling underground without marking it when they built the tank farm & sewage works.


Not necessarily.... a significant building I was involved in locally had a developer who declared confidently that he'd done all the relevant searches and looked at every plan in history, and on the first day found gas and electric the hard way so had to proceed as if there was no information on any of the site! Stumbling on things does happen.

John


More regularly than you'd think!
steveb23

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby aviodromefriend on Wed 06 Sep 2017, 5:54 pm

steveb23 wrote:
FarnboroJohn wrote:
Brevet Cable wrote:Again as posted on the VTTS forum, the grey 'circles' on that 'patch of ground' ( as you call it ) are bore-holes which were drilled to test the condition of the concrete below the tarmac surface.
And despite your claims of 'stumbling on' things, any & all pipework will already be on any plans of the area....it's not as if they stuck pipework & cabling underground without marking it when they built the tank farm & sewage works.


Not necessarily.... a significant building I was involved in locally had a developer who declared confidently that he'd done all the relevant searches and looked at every plan in history, and on the first day found gas and electric the hard way so had to proceed as if there was no information on any of the site! Stumbling on things does happen.

John


More regularly than you'd think!
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 07 Sep 2017, 8:13 am

Latest annual accounts have now been published on the Charity Commission website : http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Showcharity/RegisterOfCharities/DocumentList.aspx?RegisteredCharityNumber=1101948&SubsidiaryNumber=0&DocType=AccountList

( It's down as the 31 Oct 2016 Accounts )
As I've posted on the VTTS forum....
From the accounts :
The Vulcan Operating Company Limited
The Vulcan Operating Company Limited is the subsidiary of the Trust responsible for engineering activities on the Trust's aircraft, and has employed the Trust's aircraft trade technicians, fitters and quality specialists.
It holds CAA approvals for maintenance and continuing airworthiness management, and has the potential for offering aircraft maintenance services to 3rd parties.


Given the redundancies, is this still correct ?

There is a charge over the aircraft in favour of the National Heritage Memorial Fund in the amount of £427,000 reducing on a straight line basis until 2085.


Vulcan to the Sky Enterprises Ltd (“VTSE”) is the wholly-owned retail trading subsidiary of VTST, and is managed by Andrew Edmondson as its lead Director. VTSE covenants its taxable profits to VTST under the Gift Aid scheme
....
The Vulcan Property Management Company Ltd (“VPMC”) was incorporated on 21 December 2015, and was set up to manage the tenant-occupied hangar space, offices and conference rooms available as the result of the Trust taking over the lease of Hangar 3 at DSA at the beginning of January 2016 from Directions Finningley CIC.
The Trust held the head lease for the 2016 calendar year, and sublet the space not required by the Trust to VPMC, which then licences space to a number of tenants.
Andrew Edmondson is the lead Director for VPMC.
VPMC now provides services to the current Lessee of Hangar 3.
.....
The Vulcan Operating Company Ltd (“VOC”) has been in existence as a dormant company since 1999, but was changed to an active company in first quarter of 2016.
The VOC is the engineering arm of the Trust, and holds the approvals from the Civil Aviation Authority for servicing and airworthiness management for non-EASA aircraft.
Its goal is to generate profits from the sale of its services to other organisations in the business of restoring, conserving or operating heritage aircraft.
Its lead Director is Andrew Edmondson


The charity’s deficit for the year was £214,510 (2015: surplus £121,193).



Wages and salaries : £772,282



( under 'Purchases' ) Canberra : £51,826



Purchase invoices for business services have been received from Greenways Business Services amounting to £36,774 (2015: £17,402).
This is a partnership where Michael Trotter, director of Vulcan to the Sky Enterprises Limited, is a partner
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Brevet Cable

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby steveb23 on Thu 07 Sep 2017, 9:18 am

Brevet Cable wrote:Wages and salaries : £772,282


Wow, just wow! How can they justify that for a non-flying aircraft?
steveb23

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby vulcan558 on Thu 07 Sep 2017, 9:46 am

How they can justify 50k on Consultants and 30k on computors.
Plus the pension pot.
vulcan558

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Thu 07 Sep 2017, 10:06 am

It looks absolutely scandalous. Because it IS absolutely scandalous.

What other non-flying, charitable aircraft needs three-quarters of a million pounds worth of donations just to cover salaries, before a penny reaches the aeroplane? Or the costs for keeping it under cover? Or for building a new pie-in-the-sky building?

And then £50,000 more was spunked, without public consultation, on a Canberra that clearly they can't afford. Where was the due diligence into that purchase? Who was accountable?

And why did the cost of Trotter's rather vague "services" double from the last flying year to the first non-flying period covered in these accounts? I'm sure it is all above board, and VTTS feel they can justify it, but it's how it LOOKS.

One wonders how the dimwits, knuckledraggers and obsessed housewives on the Facebook site who have continued to support and donate would feel if they had the nous to find and read the accounts? I'd wager that most of them won't even know they are available to read online.

There's no doubt that a small cabal of people have done rather well out of the charity of others.
Last edited by Dan O'Hagan on Thu 07 Sep 2017, 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 07 Sep 2017, 10:07 am

This resulted in the Trust making 14 of its staff redundant in February 2017, at a cost of over £110,000.

The Trust had 19 full-time employees and 5 part-time employees (including 9 aircrew) as at 31 October 2016, plus a number of contractors and consultants.
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Thu 07 Sep 2017, 10:09 am

Brevet Cable wrote:
This resulted in the Trust making 14 of its staff redundant in February 2017, at a cost of over £110,000.

The Trust had 19 full-time employees and 5 part-time employees (including 9 aircrew) as at 31 October 2016, plus a number of contractors and consultants.


WOW!

Nineteen full-time employees a full year after the thing landed for the last time.
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 07 Sep 2017, 10:14 am

Not forgetting the 9 aircrew, with no clarification as to how many of those were still full-time ( given that only 5 employees were part-timers, that would mean that a minimum of 4 of the aircrew were full-timers )

And to save anyone looking, Dr Plemming is still shown as the only person who was paid over £60k during that period ( with a rather vague '£70k to £80k' being listed )
Last edited by Brevet Cable on Thu 07 Sep 2017, 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Thu 07 Sep 2017, 10:17 am

Brevet Cable wrote:Not forgetting the 9 aircrew, with no clarification as to how many of those were still full-time ( given that only 5 employees were part-timers, that would mean that a minimum of 4 of the aircrew were full-timers )


What an absolute farce.

And now the aeroplanes sit next to a giant pile of ****, quietly rotting.
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby CJS on Thu 07 Sep 2017, 11:58 am

That's no way to talk about Doncaster. :tongue:

If VTST were a business, it's have gone in to liquidation long ago surely? What a sad and utterly avoidable situation.
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 07 Sep 2017, 12:08 pm

As above :
The charity’s deficit for the year was £214,510


I also note that :
Regular and ad-hoc donations from the Vulcan to the Sky Club amounted to £22,000 (2015: £80,000) over the year 2015-16

Which illustrates just how much Club Member numbership declined ( not that the VTTS Club exists any more, the ones who remained became 'Founding Guardians' )
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Reds Rolling on Thu 07 Sep 2017, 12:08 pm

OH THE OUTRAGE! :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
Reds Rolling

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby vulcan558 on Thu 07 Sep 2017, 12:09 pm

The sad thing about all this money, would be how much since last flight as gone with nothing to show for it.
Add up all the money they have had since last flight,
vulcan558

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 07 Sep 2017, 12:09 pm

Reds Rolling wrote:OH THE OUTRAGE! :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Well done....have a banana.
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Thu 07 Sep 2017, 12:10 pm

Reds Rolling wrote:OH THE OUTRAGE! :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:


The attitude there of someone who has made his money from the project, and thank you very much.

A disgrace.
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Reds Rolling on Thu 07 Sep 2017, 12:14 pm

Dan O'Hagan wrote:
Reds Rolling wrote:OH THE OUTRAGE! :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:


The attitude there of someone who has made his money from the project, and thank you very much.

A disgrace.

The only money I ever made out of VttS was when I got runner up in the flying fund draw, but even that went back into the Vulcan pot in the end. :biggrin:
Reds Rolling

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Gregg on Thu 07 Sep 2017, 12:41 pm

Reds Rolling wrote:OH THE OUTRAGE! :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:


He's out his bed again nurse...
Gregg

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Reds Rolling on Thu 07 Sep 2017, 12:48 pm

Have you finally decided the colour you think the pink Victor is yet? :lol:
Reds Rolling

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Thu 07 Sep 2017, 12:51 pm

The lack of accountability and rank bad decision-making is especially galling.

The same names remain year-in, year-out, answering it seems to no-one but themselves. Pleming. Edmondson. Trotter. Making and compounding mistake after mistake, which began with the madness of landing at Doncaster. And no-one can remove them.

It is a non-flying hulk. Its only significance and way of making money now is by being accessible to the public and earning its keep with the fast taxi runs that were promised. Which the airport they dumped it at refuses to countenance.

An absolute disgrace, with no-one emerging from it with any credit whatsoever.

To think people are still making money for themselves from the situation is the ultimate insult.
Last edited by Dan O'Hagan on Thu 07 Sep 2017, 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby pbeardmore on Thu 07 Sep 2017, 12:52 pm

"The trustee has a legal obligation to carry out the duties conferred upon him by the trust. ... The theme common to all trusts is that the trustee acts in a fiduciary capacity, acting in the best interests of the beneficiaries, in whose sole interests and for whose exclusive benefit the trustee must act."

Interesting that one of the trustees is an MP,

this could get very complicated

The Trotter thing , people can come to their own conclusions, we have discussed this before. How is this not a conflict of interest?
Last edited by pbeardmore on Thu 07 Sep 2017, 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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