RRR1263 - G-MOAL - 231017

[Comet102]

Does anyone have any information regarding G-MOAL (AW109SP) being used for military purposes?

I picked it up on 23th October using a military call sign and a RAF Brize Norton squawk using my FlightAware.

[Graf Zeppelin]

Its the loan aircraft that 32Sqn use when their AW109 GZ100 is in for servicing.

[keithjs]

Its the loan aircraft that 32Sqn use when their AW109 GZ100 is in for servicing.

Wasn't that the one that landed and was towed into the hanger during last weeks nightshoot...?

[Ruislip Rustler]

Said state of affairs when the RAF doesn't have replacement aircraft on its books to support regular servicing and maintenance....

If the bean-counters feel that one is enough, why have a spare hanging around collecting dust when it'll only be needed on rare occasions?

[Comet102]

Its the loan aircraft that 32Sqn use when their AW109 GZ100 is in for servicing.

Thank you very much.

[Ruislip Rustler]

Sorry Ruislip rustler are you espousing a theory that people have done empirical financial modelling that deals with all the unplanned contingencies and worked out its cheaper to continual rely on paying commercial providers to bail out the lack of capacity in the British forces... Sorry I do t buy into that premise.

Eh?

[Ruislip Rustler]

... And 32squadron were noticeable by their absence at their local photoshoot which also suggests to me that their fleet are being very hard worked. I'm intrigues to know if anyone has thought to look t the second hand market for 146s and buy them for the RAF there is obviously a history of this being done in the past with the vc10 and as airlines don't seem to be keen on the 146 anymore it could be hoped that someone in the mod might have the foresight to pick up on this opportunity..

Because there comes a time when when pouring good money after bad doesn't give the return a Department that's continually strapped for cash can support.

Why buy airframes that have been flogged to within an inch of their life commercially and then spend more money on getting them up to spec than it cost to buy them?

I'm sure that whatever replaces the 146s in whatever timescale the MoD has in mind will be a marked improvement on the current fleet both in terms of reliability and cost effectiveness.

And yes, 32 and its assets are worked hard and do the best job they can with the equipment they have - especially with the political wranglings going on over the country's future. If the majority of the fleet was present at the nightshoot people would be asking questions as to why they're not flying and disband the unit.

It's unfortunate that GZ100 hasn't yet popped its cherry at an event but as I can testify, any 'Army of One' is fully occupied for long periods of time with a few moments of downtime.

[Ruislip Rustler]

Evening Ruislip interesting assumption being made that the mod would buy aircraft that needed to be refurbished to get any value out of them, surely the bean counters are smarter than that...
What I don't know is what the state o the original vc10 were that were bought from commercial operators not those that eventually ended up being k4s
I might be reading more into your response but perceive a view that you think 32 squadron are not happy with their 146s or am I reading more into what you have written?
I have absolutely no doubt that the squadron are working exceptionally hard and would never cast any aspersions on any members of the squadrons it is more the bean counters who I have my doubts about I'm afraid.

The two grey 146s underwent a major refurbishment before their entry into service - ultimately a little later than planned as TNT had certainly got their money's worth out of them... Ironic really when they bought as an Urgent Operational requirement to take some pressure off the Hercs when we were in Afghanistan and Iraq!

The rules and regs about providing value for money are much more strictly applied than 50-odd years ago when the secondhand VC10s were acquired. Today's bean counters, they are what they are... Cheapest option first and if that's the best choice it's a miracle! Cheapest now, normally means higher costs further down the line when its too late to cancel.

As for 32 and their 146s, they have to work with what they have. Like most things that are getting on in life, the aircraft are probably less reliable than they were 20 years ago but, like most people in the RAF, they'll make it work as best they can.

[Gonzo230]

Don’t the RAF lease the 109? In which case it’s pretty safe to assume they contract for a number of flying hours from the service provider per year. When the primary airframe is out of service, then it’s the responsibility of the provider to still provide resource, and they do this by supplying a different airframe.

[Graf Zeppelin]

Don’t the RAF lease the 109? In which case it’s pretty safe to assume they contract for a number of flying hours from the service provider per year. When the primary airframe is out of service, then it’s the responsibility of the provider to still provide resource, and they do this by supplying a different airframe.

Spot on!

[cg_341]

Interestingly I've read articles that the Islanders/Defenders from the Army may be released in budget cuts (obviously loads of rumours flying around and nothing that I've seen which is concrete about this) would these be aircraft that could perform a useful function for 32 squadron do you think.

I'm sure senior MOD personnel, VIPs, families of those injured on operations, etc. would be absolutely love to fly in a noisy, cramped, often broken twin-piston liaison aircraft to get to where they need to be (or at least to an airport near to where they need to be) rather than an A109 - taking them to the door.

[Craig]

Cg341 not quite sure why the need for such a sarcastic reply it was an honest question this sort of attitude is what is wrong with this forum and why I'm sure people are posting less and less to this forum due to this level of non warranted attack. So are you in a position to confirm that there are no missions currently performed by any of the current fleet couldn't be undertaken by islanders or defenders.

The point is nontheless valid, while the Islander has many strengths as anyone who's flown on one will confirm comfort isn't one. For a unit predominantly involved in VIP transport I can't see them being much use. That's before you start looking at the flexibility rotary aircraft bring which is an extra benefit of something like the A109. It really is perfect for the job.

[Joe Spares]

Does 32 just have the one 109 now then? What about the two/three ZRxxx serialled ones?

[SCARECROW 451]

They have been disposed off

ZR321 To G-CDVB 20-4-11
ZR322 To G-CDVC 12-4-16
ZR323 To G-CDVE 26-4-13
Thanks to ukserials.com