RIAT 2018 discussion

All you'll ever need to know about the UK's biggest airshow
Post Reply
User avatar
speedbird2639
Posts: 1349
Joined: Wed 13 Jul 2011, 11:35 am

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by speedbird2639 »

Last years was £12 on the day - that’s a 25% price increase for 2018.


A lot of money for what is basically a glossy collection of adverts or adverts masquerading as articles for BAe, Airbus and the like. I haven't bothered with one for years not since they were £5 on the day and I thought they were poor value at that price. The only page anyone is interested on the day is the running order of the display and given print schedules and aircraft availability it is usually well out of date by the time the show opens.

Berf
Posts: 1242
Joined: Thu 24 Aug 2017, 7:12 pm

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by Berf »

boff180 wrote:From an email this morning advertising pre-order of the 2018 programme...

The 2018 programme is going to be priced at £15 - and can be preordered for £12.

Last years was £12 on the day - that’s a 25% price increase for 2018.


For an item that costs less than 50p to print that's appalling.

User avatar
Cole
Posts: 897
Joined: Sat 09 Apr 2016, 2:43 pm
Location: Dudley, West Midlands

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by Cole »

Berf wrote:
boff180 wrote:From an email this morning advertising pre-order of the 2018 programme...

The 2018 programme is going to be priced at £15 - and can be preordered for £12.

Last years was £12 on the day - that’s a 25% price increase for 2018.


For an item that costs less than 50p to print that's appalling.


Soon it will be cheaper for us to book the acts ourselves... Back garden anyone :wall: :lol: :lmao:
Canon 800D & Sigma 150-600 C
Dudley, West Midlands

Shows I'm Attending in 2020:

Well Um..

User avatar
aviodromefriend
Posts: 2555
Joined: Sat 26 Jun 2010, 2:22 pm

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by aviodromefriend »

ColeTheDemolisher wrote:
Berf wrote:For an item that costs less than 50p to print that's appalling.


Soon it will be cheaper for us to book the acts ourselves... Back garden anyone :wall: :lol: :lmao:
I think Berf is referring to the inlay with the flying display that is coming with the program since a few years, not the complete book.
A weather forecast is a forecast and just that

Mike Moses, Launch Integration Manager Space Shuttle Program

User avatar
Dan O'Hagan
Posts: 2279
Joined: Wed 13 Apr 2016, 6:05 pm

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

£15 for a book of adverts. Anyone who buys one frankly deserves no sympathy at all. The programme's costs are heavily subsidised by the likes of BAE Systems and Lockheed-Martin, I'd be amazed if it cost RAFCTE much over a pound per copy, if that.

Let's be frank, the cost of a trip to RIAT, unless you are on a Mach 3 pass (or have blagged free access) is now spiralling to the realms of insanity, and all for diminishing returns in terms of the flying display.

£15! Well, that's one way to claw back Scampton's losses...

User avatar
captainfurious
Posts: 206
Joined: Mon 01 Sep 2008, 7:26 pm

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by captainfurious »

I'm a sucker for the programme. I don't even read it but it's the only bit of merchandise I buy every year. And yes it is absolutely as you describe but I can't break the tradition! Still it is scandalous. Interesting flicking through my first 90s ones though. Better times in the aviation world from all perspectives.

Witchcraft24
Posts: 134
Joined: Mon 24 Oct 2016, 7:29 pm

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by Witchcraft24 »

Dan O'Hagan wrote:£15 for a book of adverts. Anyone who buys one frankly deserves no sympathy at all. The programme's costs are heavily subsidised by the likes of BAE Systems and Lockheed-Martin, I'd be amazed if it cost RAFCTE much over a pound per copy, if that.

Let's be frank, the cost of a trip to RIAT, unless you are on a Mach 3 pass (or have blagged free access) is now spiralling to the realms of insanity, and all for diminishing returns in terms of the flying display.

£15! Well, that's one way to claw back Scampton's losses...



More hyperbolic nonsense - I reckon it still represents excellent value, especially for a family with a couple of young children. I know it gets quoted all the time but, if you want "insanity", look at West End shows or Premier league football matches.

"Diminishing returns".... were you there this year? The flying was diverse and excellent (IMHO).

Berf
Posts: 1242
Joined: Thu 24 Aug 2017, 7:12 pm

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by Berf »

aviodromefriend wrote:
ColeTheDemolisher wrote:
Berf wrote:For an item that costs less than 50p to print that's appalling.


Soon it will be cheaper for us to book the acts ourselves... Back garden anyone :wall: :lol: :lmao:
I think Berf is referring to the inlay with the flying display that is coming with the program since a few years, not the complete book.



No I am not - the whole publication would cost less than 50p to print.

User avatar
speedbird2639
Posts: 1349
Joined: Wed 13 Jul 2011, 11:35 am

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by speedbird2639 »

Berf wrote:No I am not - the whole publication would cost less than 50p to print.


RIAT 'publications' have always been appalling value - don't they charge something like £5 for a 1 side of A4 photocopied sheet with all the registrations of the aircraft attending. I appreciate that the money all goes in the charity pot but surely there has to be some measure of providing the public with value for money.

Berf
Posts: 1242
Joined: Thu 24 Aug 2017, 7:12 pm

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by Berf »

I really have no issue with the cost of RIAT especially compared to other events and get a bit irritated when people moan about it but for the programme to cost virtually a third of the admission cost I find dreadful and milking those attending especially when there is nothing of substance in it. The RAF yearbook with a few additions would be better.

Dan213
Posts: 483
Joined: Thu 30 May 2013, 12:15 pm

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by Dan213 »

Berf wrote:
aviodromefriend wrote:
ColeTheDemolisher wrote:
Berf wrote:For an item that costs less than 50p to print that's appalling.


Soon it will be cheaper for us to book the acts ourselves... Back garden anyone :wall: :lol: :lmao:
I think Berf is referring to the inlay with the flying display that is coming with the program since a few years, not the complete book.



No I am not - the whole publication would cost less than 50p to print.


Multiply that by 3 or 4 and you’re getting there. Still a very large profit margin but not quite as exaggerated as you make it out to be

Berf
Posts: 1242
Joined: Thu 24 Aug 2017, 7:12 pm

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by Berf »

Dan213 wrote:
Berf wrote:
aviodromefriend wrote:
ColeTheDemolisher wrote:
Berf wrote:For an item that costs less than 50p to print that's appalling.


Soon it will be cheaper for us to book the acts ourselves... Back garden anyone :wall: :lol: :lmao:
I think Berf is referring to the inlay with the flying display that is coming with the program since a few years, not the complete book.



No I am not - the whole publication would cost less than 50p to print.


Multiply that by 3 or 4 and you’re getting there. Still a very large profit margin but not quite as exaggerated as you make it out to be



Well I assume you are in business and will know that it will depend on the number printed and pages which I do not know but assume it is over 10,000 copies at 72 pages. If it is costing them anything more than one pound and not the 1.50 or 2.00 you suggest then I suggest they look for another printer.

User avatar
Dan O'Hagan
Posts: 2279
Joined: Wed 13 Apr 2016, 6:05 pm

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

By way of comparison, clubs in the Bundesliga produce A4-sized programmes not unlike RIAT's in terms of number of pages. I think Bayern Munich's is under €2 this season, and the same sort of price at Dortmund and Schalke. They might get discounts for producing them for 17 home games a year as opposed to RIAT's annual order, but there is no way on Earth a £15 magazine can be justified, especially when the content is wafer-thin and heavily subsidised.

When UKAR next cosy up to Armstrong, perhaps the programme rip-off can be addressed.

User avatar
speedbird2639
Posts: 1349
Joined: Wed 13 Jul 2011, 11:35 am

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by speedbird2639 »

When UKAR next cosy up to Armstrong, perhaps the programme rip-off can be addressed.


I'm sure their response would be something along the lines of "All the profits got to the charity so what is the problem. And if it is so overpriced then why do we sell out each year?"

Not defending it - the price is clearly robbery with violence but I'm sure these things will have been discuss in their marketing meetings and agreed on by the 'higher ups'.

User avatar
Wissam24
UKAR Staff
Posts: 8270
Joined: Mon 29 Apr 2013, 9:54 am
Location: London

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by Wissam24 »

It is nonsense how much the programme costs given all the "sponsored by"s and "supported by"s all over and inside it. It's a big publication but a not insignificant percentage of it is just advertising.
Twitter: @samwise24 | Flickr: samwise24 | Shamelessly copying LN Strike Eagle's avatar ideas since 2016

User avatar
Dan O'Hagan
Posts: 2279
Joined: Wed 13 Apr 2016, 6:05 pm

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

Wissam24 wrote:It is nonsense how much the programme costs given all the "sponsored by"s and "supported by"s all over and inside it. It's a big publication but a not insignificant percentage of it is just advertising.


£15 is robbery. £12 is an outrage. For what it is, and what is inside, anything over £5 is overcharging.

User avatar
Wrexham Mackem
UKAR Staff
Posts: 2514
Joined: Sun 31 Aug 2008, 4:46 pm
Location: Farndon, Chester

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by Wrexham Mackem »

I have a programme from every airshow I've been to, you can imagine how many pounds worth of tat that has amounted to over the years. The RIAT effort is actually far far from the worst, but I have to agree a £15 airshow programme is bonkers.

I'm happy to allow for a healthy profit margin for fundraising purposes, but a tenner is a line that shouldn't be crossed, and around £7.50 would be where I'd place it myself.

If it sells out though, why would they reduce it? The money's in the bank.

User avatar
Skyflash
UKAR Staff
Posts: 2236
Joined: Sun 31 Aug 2008, 7:51 pm
Location: Edinburgh

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by Skyflash »

Dan O'Hagan wrote:By way of comparison, clubs in the Bundesliga produce A4-sized programmes not unlike RIAT's in terms of number of pages. I think Bayern Munich's is under €2 this season, and the same sort of price at Dortmund and Schalke. They might get discounts for producing them for 17 home games a year as opposed to RIAT's annual order, but there is no way on Earth a £15 magazine can be justified, especially when the content is wafer-thin and heavily subsidised.

When UKAR next cosy up to Armstrong, perhaps the programme rip-off can be addressed.


Everything about the Bundesliga is so cheap that it makes meaningful comparisons tricky. Bayern Munich's cheapest season ticket, for example, starts at around €120 (!) which is just nuts when you consider how much the top EPL clubs charge.

I agree that £15 for the RIAT programme seems absurdly steep; one possible way around this would be to have a two-tier system whereby those who want to purchase the full souvenir thingy can do so (but not for more than a tenner IMO), whilst those who simply want the flying programme can purchase it on its own for (say) £2.50.

In years past the flying programme has been presented in the form of an insert to the main programme, so it shouldn't be too difficult to offer it on its own.
Posting comments on an aviation-related chatroom, are ya? Looks like it an' all...

User avatar
harkins
Posts: 1133
Joined: Tue 11 Jun 2013, 9:17 pm
Location: Stockport

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by harkins »

Maybe RIAT will go the same way as Scampton? Next Christmas they might say that 2018 suffered financially due to not selling a single program and that they will not have an event in 2019 to think about it.

Seriously though, £15 for a program is incredible. I'd expect a hardback book for that.

User avatar
Brevet Cable
Posts: 13725
Joined: Tue 05 Mar 2013, 12:13 pm

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by Brevet Cable »

Just had a look at the last RAF Yearbook I bought back in 2010.....it cost less than £5 ( £4:99 to be precise )
The 2010 RIAT programme ? £9 !!
Tôi chỉ đặt cái này ở đây để giữ cho người điều hành bận rộn
아직도 숨어있다

User avatar
aviodromefriend
Posts: 2555
Joined: Sat 26 Jun 2010, 2:22 pm

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by aviodromefriend »

speedbird2639 wrote:And if it is so overpriced then why do we sell out each year?"
Most years they don't. It pops up in their webshop after the show almost every year to get rid of what isn't sold during the show.
A weather forecast is a forecast and just that

Mike Moses, Launch Integration Manager Space Shuttle Program

User avatar
tankbuster81
UKAR Supporter
Posts: 3442
Joined: Sun 31 Aug 2008, 9:14 pm
Location: Rochester,Kent.

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by tankbuster81 »

Message deleted. I can't be doing with having a simple opinion, and others then over-reacting etc. The fun really has gone from here nowadays.

Happy Christmas all.
Last edited by tankbuster81 on Tue 26 Dec 2017, 12:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Don't bother running, you'll only die tired!!

User avatar
speedbird2639
Posts: 1349
Joined: Wed 13 Jul 2011, 11:35 am

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by speedbird2639 »

a case of being forced into an enclosure for a decent viewing position, or herded in at either end of the display line, with nothing but Tents, Marquee's, Enclosures, and wires in the way.


Amen ^^

The display line needs to be cleaned up but RIAT will never have the spine to do it as they are too 'hand in glove' with all the corporates/ LinkedIn crowd. I've already got my tickets for 2018 as its the 100th anniversary of the RAF. I trust DBH won't drop the ball on such a momentous occasion. 2019 and going forwards I shall review my attendance on a year by year basis dependant on the attendees.

User avatar
boff180
UKAR Staff
Posts: 9830
Joined: Sun 31 Aug 2008, 2:28 pm
Location: Solihull
Contact:

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by boff180 »

Woe betide any of you guys if you go to a major US airshow where (at the majority) you have to pay to be able to get within 100 yards of the crowd line and then it's either in a grandstand or umbrella covered tables.... except for the extreme left and right of the showground... with the view from behind blocked by the rows of grandstands.

.... that's if you've paid an entry ticket or not.

RIAT is split into three sections, Green - Blue - Red. 100% (33%) of Green is available for the public to get to the crowdline without paying, around 15% (4.95%) of the Blue is available and around 85% (28.05%) of Red was available.

So that's about 65% of the crowdline is available to the public without paying and the majority of the centre taken up by those willing to pay extra, disabled, and the chalets supporting the airpower conference and the main sponsors.

Without the latter two - the show would no longer exist, it's no wonder they get the best view and best treatment as a result.

User avatar
CJS
Posts: 8866
Joined: Thu 15 Jul 2010, 3:30 pm
Location: Hogwarts

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by CJS »

Since 2007 I've never had any problem getting a decent spot to watch the flying and (if only I were any good) take some nice photos too. And that's by finding my spot at about 950 and often moving once or twice during the day too. So I absolutely do not buy into this argument about Joe Public being squeezed out. Not one bit.
"There's only one way of life, and that's your own"

Post Reply