President Trump

[Brevet Cable]

No....they only give them to terrorists & POTUS who haven't done anything.

[Spiny Norman]

If peace talks between North and South Korea are successful, should Trump be in line for the Nobel peace prize?

The bombing of Syria might count against it?

[iainpeden]

If peace talks between North and South Korea are successful, should Trump be in line for the Nobel peace prize?

The bombing of Syria might count against it?

But is that not intended to protect an oppressed minority?

[Spiny Norman]

If peace talks between North and South Korea are successful, should Trump be in line for the Nobel peace prize?

The bombing of Syria might count against it?

But is that not intended to protect an oppressed minority?

So I believe. Though I would say that aerial bombing of a place containing chemical weapons has an element of risk attached in terms of releasing the ingredients of those very weapons.

[Brevet Cable]

Depends whether or not what's been posted on another forum is correct...
Namely that the sites targeted have been known about for years, had already been visited by CW inspectors in the past & in the case of the research facility, hadn't been operating for a couple of years.

[Burleysway]

US President Donald Trump to visit the UK in July.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43913414

[Spiny Norman]

I think it's time May cancelled Trump's visit next month.

This shocking treatment of separated families shows him to be not worthy of high office and not someone who should be welcomed to the UK on a formal basis.

Enough is enough.

[Brevet Cable]

Compared to the various despots, dictators, mass-murderers, human-rights abusers & genocidal maniacs who've had State Visits in the past,The Trump is a mere beginner.

[verreli]

I think it's time May cancelled Trump's visit next month.

This shocking treatment of separated families shows him to be not worthy of high office and not someone who should be welcomed to the UK on a formal basis.

Enough is enough.

So what has he done that is different from many other countries?

[Spiny Norman]

I think it's time May cancelled Trump's visit next month.

This shocking treatment of separated families shows him to be not worthy of high office and not someone who should be welcomed to the UK on a formal basis.

Enough is enough.

So what has he done that is different from many other countries?

Do you think what's he doing is alright?

[Brevet Cable]

https://www.onenewsnow.com/politics-govt/2018/06/19/gallup-trumps-45-approval-rating-a-record-high

Gallup revealed Monday from its latest nationwide poll that President Donald Trump’s approval rating hit a record-high 45 percent, which ties the highest mark recorded on recurring poll that dates back to his first month of presidency.

https://www.fxstreet.com/amp/news/us-economy-to-continue-to-grow-significantly-above-potential-nomura-201806181144

Analysts at Nomura expect the US economy to continue to grow significantly above potential in 2018 and 2019, boosted by tax cuts and a pick-up in government spending.

“Job gains remain well above the long-term sustainable pace and will likely push down the unemployment rate to levels not seen since the late 1960s. However, we expect soft productivity growth to persist, held down by structural declines in underlying business dynamism (e.g., the rate of new business formation and workers changing jobs). Lower dynamism also places downward pressure on wage growth.”

[verreli]

I think it's time May cancelled Trump's visit next month.

This shocking treatment of separated families shows him to be not worthy of high office and not someone who should be welcomed to the UK on a formal basis.

Enough is enough.

So what has he done that is different from many other countries?

Do you think what's he doing is alright?

I think we have enough problems in the UK to be dealing with. Tactically it isn't smart to publicly criticise a country that's your ally, especially if you want to develop the relationship.

[Tommy]

I think it's time May cancelled Trump's visit next month.

This shocking treatment of separated families shows him to be not worthy of high office and not someone who should be welcomed to the UK on a formal basis.

Enough is enough.

So what has he done that is different from many other countries?

Do you think what's he doing is alright?

I think we have enough problems in the UK to be dealing with. Tactically it isn't smart to publicly criticise a country that's your ally, especially if you want to develop the relationship.

Verreli, you often make a lot of logical points I agree with, and I enjoy your submissions, but I've got to join in against you on this. Hope you don't take it personally, it's not a dig or an attack on you. A bit moot on the particular point, now that Trump has caved in, but you were asked a pretty simple "yes" or "no" question which should have been very easy to answer.

More generally, and not specifically you, Verreli;

Perhaps a post for the angry thread, but "whataboutery" really pees me off. "What about other countries?" Well, yeah, you can have a long list of deplorable stuff other countries have done and do, but that's not what we're discussing. Politicians do it to a nauseating extent. A Labour politician is being criticised for something stupid Corbyn has said "...but what about the Tories!?" And likewise any Tory is just as bad. Yeah, fine, that particular person should also be grilled, but don't use "what about someone/thing else" as an excuse to get out of a difficult question, or to justify terrible actions.

It's poisonous to require people to deal in absolutes. We're not the Sith. As a red-herring example; I think we should be doing more to be environmentally conscious and ease-off our reliance on fossil fuels. That doesn't mean I'm going to go and put my life on hold and join Greenpeace and go sailing on the Esperanza and shout abuse at oil rig workers.

Likewise, this daft logic that someone can't criticise something or someone because "we've got enough of our own problems to deal with". We do. Significant ones. That does not, in any way, stop people from being able to speak out or criticise someone else. We have a problem with knife-crime in our capital, and that should be looked at and given the time of day, but that doesn't stop me from making a comment that America *needs* to have a serious conversation about gun control before yet another school becomes a shooting gallery for (depending if they;re white or not) a "lone wolf mentally disturbed person" or "terrorist". And the word "enough", criticising a problem in a foreign country does not mean that it is suddenly the UK's front and centre problem.

No person, nation, or league of nations is ever perfect. It's beyond idiotic to even contemplate that being true. So it's similarly stupid to argue that we must be perfect in order to call-out or criticise others (which is the implication behind the "we have our own problems" line).

And, that "we've got enough of our own problems" logic that people're using to defend Trump, doesn't apply to the man himself. He has his own considerable problems to deal with, that doesn't stop him writing a 3.00am-angrily-worded-misspelled-all-caps-tweet with impunity.

...Tactically it isn't smart to publicly criticise a country that's your ally, especially if you want to develop the relationship.

There also comes a time when you have to wonder whether we want such barbarism and douchebaggery manifested in public policy as our "ally"? We want nations who are like-minded, see things as we do, understand things as we do. We're only "allies" as long as we have broadly the same objectives and mindsets. Refusing public criticism of acts such as this have never landed on the "right" side of history, allies or not.

Like in any friendship/relationship, the best policy is honesty. If you think someone is doing something wrong, you tell them. The best friends we ever have are those prepared to take you to one side and say "look, mate, this isn't on. Let's, together, figure out how to fix this." And a friend who isn't prepared for us to be honest, was never that good of a friend. It's amazing how quickly the mask slips.

[FarnboroJohn]

[quote="verreli I think we have enough problems in the UK to be dealing with. Tactically it isn't smart to publicly criticise a country that's your ally, especially if you want to develop the relationship.[/quote]

Two-way street.....

[verreli]

Wow, quite a long post for what was two sentences. I'll try to do your effort justice.

Without being too philosophical, I believe in life, there's no right and wrong. There are simply choices and consequences. It's not always obvious if a choice you make will lead to a positive or negative outcome. Most of us strive for one and if you're unlucky get another. That's life. It sometimes isn't fair.

In the case above, the choice Trump made would not be the one I made in a similar situation, but I believe he did it because he felt it was the right thing to do for the people he leads. A job in which he's been democratically elected to serve the interests of the people of the United States. The people on the receiving end of his policy made a choice, an understandable one in which they were looking for a better life but the outcome was never guaranteed. Between the two parties there were positive and negative outcomes depending on your perspective.

To explain the two sentences I wrote, they were written after I'd been watching PMQ's so were directed at our MP's more than anyone on this forum, not that any MP would be lurking here. I believe the people we elect to represent us should do so in the best interests of our country. Many times I feel this isn't the case. Sometimes it's necessary to put aside our ideals if the greater good is to be served. There's always another day, another battle to be fought. In this case I don't feel that making a public statement would serve any positive benefit. On the contrary, it leads to antagonism whereby someone with an alpha male personality will take exception. These instances are rarely forgot. I note May has made similar comments previously and I also note that Trump has responded to those comments to the detriment of the UK. Trumps popularity in his base is growing and there's a good probability he'll get another term so we may be dealing with his administration until 2024. Any smart person would consider this.

Going back to my first paragraph. The UK can make a choice to publicly comment about one US domestic policy or another but equally we have to accept consequences that may not be to our liking. What for instance are your thoughts when a foreign leader comments on UK domestic policy? Is it really worth commenting? Why commit everything to a skirmish when your objective is to win the war? A famous and profound quote by Sun Tzu in the art of war (or it may be the Godfather movie) is 'Keep you friends close and your enemies closer'. Understand this and you will understand why we should welcome all foreign leaders and that includes Trump, the incumbent leader of our strongest ally.

[Brevet Cable]

Interesting listening to Radio 4 & the BBC World Service last night.
By all accounts, a lot of the images & footage of the supposedly 'caged' kids are actually several years old.
Not exactly unexpected, that.

[Spiny Norman]

The ice on which Trump has skated about on for a while appears to be getting even thinner.

Wonder how long it'll be until he is led away to impeachment, or resigns, as Nixon did?

[Paul_Reflex]

The ice on which Trump has skated about on for a while appears to be getting even thinner.

Wonder how long it'll be until he is led away to impeachment, or resigns, as Nixon did?

Nixon went because the GOP turned on him, the current republicans seem to be too terrified of Trump's base to do that. Even if the Dems win Congress in November the Senate will never sign off on an impeachment.

In a way I hope it takes a while as it would be merciful if Mike Pence was only president for a short time. His views are utterly terrifying and he's much more competent than Trump.

[Brevet Cable]

Depends how many dodgy deals based around plea bargains those with an axe to grind can cook up, because do you really believe the likes of Cohen, Manafort et al aren't going to tell them exactly what they want to hear?
It says how trustworthy both they & Trump are by the fact that they saw fit to record most-if not all- of their conversations & meetings.

....it would be merciful if Mike Pence was only president for a short time. His views are utterly terrifying and he's much more competent than Trump.

It would be better if that sociopath never ever got the opportunity to be POTUS at all.

[Paul_Reflex]

....it would be merciful if Mike Pence was only president for a short time. His views are utterly terrifying and he's much more competent than Trump.

It would be better if that sociopath never ever got the opportunity to be POTUS at all.[/quote]

Agreed!

There's no evidence yet of plea bargaining, Manafort was found guilty at trial and Cohen seems to have made guilty pleas to the original charges. I agree though that deals will likely be forthcoming.

[Paul_Reflex]

....it would be merciful if Mike Pence was only president for a short time. His views are utterly terrifying and he's much more competent than Trump.

It would be better if that sociopath never ever got the opportunity to be POTUS at all.

Agreed!

There's no evidence yet of plea bargaining, Manafort was found guilty at trial and Cohen seems to have made guilty pleas to the original charges. I agree though that deals will likely be forthcoming.[/quote]

[canard67]

The Trump voters may prefer Rush Limbaugh or Ann Coulter for President if the lefties and the media do for nice Mr Trump.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCl_--E3T2c

[Tommy]

Amazing:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45285585

US President Donald Trump has responded to speculation that he might be impeached by warning that any such move would damage the economy.

"I tell you what, if I ever got impeached, I think the market would crash, I think everybody would be very poor."

They're literally at the "Yeah, well... if I go down, you're all going down with me!!" stage now.

Man alive, what terrible but darkly humorous times. Trump's presidency really is "stupid watergate".

(On a serious note, I'm still unconvinced that he'll actually be impeached)

[pbeardmore]

Some people do lie so much and believe their own hype that the lose track of what is true and what is false. I think we have to consider the option that Trump is so deluded that he has lost track. One of the signs of this is that he has failed to come up with a consistant version of events re the pay offs: not one big , clever lie.

He just reacts to current events on a daily basis and makes up his own version of reality that, in his World, is true. He seems now to be focussing on the technical legality of the pay offs rather than the moral issues of bedding models behind your wife's back and then paying them off. As long as its not a criminal offence, that whats the problem? Water of a duck's back. The irony is that, if he thought that was an acceptable way to behave, then he would not have paid the hush money.

[boff180]

“We’re the only country in the world where a person comes in and has a baby, and the baby is essentially a citizen of the United States,” Trump told “Axios on HBO” in an interview, excerpts of which were released Tuesday. “It’s ridiculous. And it has to end.”

Countries that also have unrestricted birthright citizenship like the US.... otherwise known as Jus soli

Antigua and Barbuda
Argentina
Barbados
Belize
Bolivia
Brazil
Canada
Chad
Chile
Costa Rica
Dominia
Ecuador
El Salvador
Fiji
Grenada
Guatemala
Guyana
Honduras
Jamaica
Lesotho
Mexico
Nicaragua
Pakistan
Panama
Paraguay
Peru
Saint Kitts and Nevis
Tanzania
Trinidad and Tobago
Tuvalu
Uruguay
Venezuela

Nations with a restricted form of Jus soli.... usually one parent must already a citizen..

Australia
Bahrain
Cambodia
Colombia
Dominican Republic
Egypt
France
Germany
Greece
Hong Kong
Iran
Ireland
Luxembourg
Malaysia
Morocco
Namibia
New Zealand
Portugal
South Africa
Spain
Sudan
Thailand
Tunisia
United Kingdom....


…..