Where has XH558 thread gone?

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Dan213
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Dan213 »

GertrudetheMerciless wrote:
Domvickery wrote:
aviodromefriend wrote:
Reds Rolling wrote:do you remember when those numpties at Brunty thought it would be a good idea to put someone with no experience on the throttles of a Victor fast taxi run? :joystick:
No experience on the throttles of a Victor? IIRC, it had one of the Victor pilots that flew during Black Buck at the controls when the wind didn't behave as expected.


Yes but P2 had control of the throttles


I always thought there were other bits of an aeroplane to help it fly, not just applying power. How that aeroplane was ever allowed to be in a position to leave the ground is still beyond me.

Nice, convenient too perhaps, to have an easy fall guy to blame though. :confused:


If you get above a certain speed any aircraft will take off without a control input... If you do a bit of reading though, you’ll see that the P1 had to remove is hand from the yoke in order to close the throttles

vulcan558
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by vulcan558 »

This topic is about xh558. Not victors.
For those that went to the early 558 taxi runs in thd early 90s.
It was not just the nose wheel that left the ground on some runs.

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pbeardmore
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by pbeardmore »

I do wonder in a few years whether we will gain full access to exactly what has happened within the charity re the decision making process or perhaps we will never know?

There seems to be a lack of transparency within the charity sector in the UK. The min requirement of publishing financial details via the commission rarely tells the full story. And outsiders are left trying to work out exactly what is going on.
“The best computer is a man, and it’s the only one that can be mass-produced by unskilled labour.”

IgnatiusJReilly
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by IgnatiusJReilly »

I read a comment on Facebook last night that seemed to suggest that there was a problem with the most recent engine run.
The post seemed to imply that the aircraft went tech and no refund for those attending.
Am surprised that we wouldn't have heard about this before now, if there was anything to it.
Anyone any the wiser?

(It was a comment buried on one of the limited time / never ending 'names on the wing' adverts, I should have screenshot'ed it at the time, but I was out & about and of course, I haven't seen it since :facepalm: )
Eccentric, idealistic, and creative, sometimes to the point of delusion..

Reds Rolling
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Reds Rolling »

GertrudetheMerciless wrote:I always thought there were other bits of an aeroplane to help it fly, not just applying power. How that aeroplane was ever allowed to be in a position to leave the ground is still beyond me.

Nice, convenient too perhaps, to have an easy fall guy to blame though. :confused:

Pretty sure it was in take-off configuration on the day, so a potential accident waiting to happen? :question:
Throwing the throttle man to the wolves was a quick and convenient way of making sure those who should have known better didn't have to take the flack.

vulcan558 wrote:For those that went to the early 558 taxi runs in thd early 90s.
It was not just the nose wheel that left the ground on some runs.

I've heard rumours that a wheels off the ground 'short hop' was what they were trying to emulate on that Victor run, which then of course went so horribly wrong!

GertrudetheMerciless
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by GertrudetheMerciless »

Dan213 wrote:If you get above a certain speed any aircraft will take off without a control input... If you do a bit of reading though, you’ll see that the P1 had to remove is hand from the yoke in order to close the throttles


Which begs two questions:

1. Did P1 only have one hand? Even with a steering tiller on a large aircraft the safer thing would be to swap hands on the yoke for the fraction of a second it takes to close the throttles.

2. Why on earth was an aircraft being fast taxied at a speed that it could get airborne.

Ergo, dress it up all you like, it was inexcusable and to blame the (inappropriately placed and selected) person in the RHS was crass in the least.

GertrudetheMerciless
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by GertrudetheMerciless »

Reds Rolling wrote:Pretty sure it was in take-off configuration on the day, so a potential accident waiting to happen? :question:


Sort of. However there are considerations and distractions that would need to be considered such as configuration warnings etc which may have to be isolated (preferably beforehand, but sometimes have to be cancelled manually - hands searching round cockpit to get them?), which could understandably cause distraction (they are designed to after all). The safer thing is surely to ensure you never get to an airspeed at which the aircraft if capable of flight, controlled or otherwise?

Throwing the throttle man to the wolves was a quick and convenient way of making sure those who should have known better didn't have to take the flack.


Amen. That is it summed up in a nutshell.

JetMan
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by JetMan »

IgnatiusJReilly wrote:I read a comment on Facebook last night that seemed to suggest that there was a problem with the most recent engine run.
The post seemed to imply that the aircraft went tech and no refund for those attending.
Am surprised that we wouldn't have heard about this before now, if there was anything to it.
Anyone any the wiser?

(It was a comment buried on one of the limited time / never ending 'names on the wing' adverts, I should have screenshot'ed it at the time, but I was out & about and of course, I haven't seen it since :facepalm: )


If you look on the trip advisor page, there’s two 5* reviews for the ground runs last weekend. From what I’ve heard, the air starter went tech, and had to wait for swissport to bring one, and only started the first run when they should have been starting the second. It also looks as though visitors are being allowed into the cockpit now...

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MicrolightDriver
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by MicrolightDriver »

JetMan wrote:
IgnatiusJReilly wrote:I read a comment on Facebook last night that seemed to suggest that there was a problem with the most recent engine run.
The post seemed to imply that the aircraft went tech and no refund for those attending.
Am surprised that we wouldn't have heard about this before now, if there was anything to it.
Anyone any the wiser?

(It was a comment buried on one of the limited time / never ending 'names on the wing' adverts, I should have screenshot'ed it at the time, but I was out & about and of course, I haven't seen it since :facepalm: )


If you look on the trip advisor page, there’s two 5* reviews for the ground runs last weekend. From what I’ve heard, the air starter went tech, and had to wait for swissport to bring one, and only started the first run when they should have been starting the second. It also looks as though visitors are being allowed into the cockpit now...


Doesn't sound too catastrophic - unless somebody attending an event was cutting their plans for the day very fine? Haven't seen anything online to suggest that myself.

I'd imagine cockpit access more than compensated the others for any delay!

Hopefully more EGRs in June.

Dan213
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Dan213 »

MicrolightDriver wrote:
JetMan wrote:
IgnatiusJReilly wrote:I read a comment on Facebook last night that seemed to suggest that there was a problem with the most recent engine run.
The post seemed to imply that the aircraft went tech and no refund for those attending.
Am surprised that we wouldn't have heard about this before now, if there was anything to it.
Anyone any the wiser?

(It was a comment buried on one of the limited time / never ending 'names on the wing' adverts, I should have screenshot'ed it at the time, but I was out & about and of course, I haven't seen it since :facepalm: )


If you look on the trip advisor page, there’s two 5* reviews for the ground runs last weekend. From what I’ve heard, the air starter went tech, and had to wait for swissport to bring one, and only started the first run when they should have been starting the second. It also looks as though visitors are being allowed into the cockpit now...


Doesn't sound too catastrophic - unless somebody attending an event was cutting their plans for the day very fine? Haven't seen anything online to suggest that myself.

I'd imagine cockpit access more than compensated the others for any delay!

Hopefully more EGRs in June.


Yawn :sleepy:

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MicrolightDriver
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by MicrolightDriver »

Dan213 wrote:
MicrolightDriver wrote:
JetMan wrote:
IgnatiusJReilly wrote:I read a comment on Facebook last night that seemed to suggest that there was a problem with the most recent engine run.
The post seemed to imply that the aircraft went tech and no refund for those attending.
Am surprised that we wouldn't have heard about this before now, if there was anything to it.
Anyone any the wiser?

(It was a comment buried on one of the limited time / never ending 'names on the wing' adverts, I should have screenshot'ed it at the time, but I was out & about and of course, I haven't seen it since :facepalm: )


If you look on the trip advisor page, there’s two 5* reviews for the ground runs last weekend. From what I’ve heard, the air starter went tech, and had to wait for swissport to bring one, and only started the first run when they should have been starting the second. It also looks as though visitors are being allowed into the cockpit now...


Doesn't sound too catastrophic - unless somebody attending an event was cutting their plans for the day very fine? Haven't seen anything online to suggest that myself.

I'd imagine cockpit access more than compensated the others for any delay!

Hopefully more EGRs in June.


Yawn :sleepy:


Oh I do apologise, was the fictional 'aircraft went tech / customers treated badly' storyline better?

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CJS
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by CJS »

Much. :grin:
With just the slightest bit of finesse, I might have made a little less mess.

Gregg
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Gregg »

GertrudetheMerciless wrote:
Dan213 wrote:If you get above a certain speed any aircraft will take off without a control input... If you do a bit of reading though, you’ll see that the P1 had to remove is hand from the yoke in order to close the throttles


Which begs two questions:

1. Did P1 only have one hand? Even with a steering tiller on a large aircraft the safer thing would be to swap hands on the yoke for the fraction of a second it takes to close the throttles.

2. Why on earth was an aircraft being fast taxied at a speed that it could get airborne.

Ergo, dress it up all you like, it was inexcusable and to blame the (inappropriately placed and selected) person in the RHS was crass in the least.


Nobody blamed him apart from internet "experts". If the bloke froze then thats just simply a fact and nothing to do with blame. The people involved are all well aware of the mistakes made and changes were made. Nobody has tried to cover it up or lie about what happened. Those of us involved at Brunty are the first to admit it was a collosal balls up. Don't tar us with the same brush as the Vtts lot.

GertrudetheMerciless
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by GertrudetheMerciless »

Gregg wrote:
Nobody blamed him apart from internet "experts". If the bloke froze then thats just simply a fact and nothing to do with blame. The people involved are all well aware of the mistakes made and changes were made. Nobody has tried to cover it up or lie about what happened. Those of us involved at Brunty are the first to admit it was a collosal balls up. Don't tar us with the same brush as the Vtts lot.


No one is tarring anyone in any way other than saying it was inexcusable (and in reality only one person could be responsible), but as you say, lessons have rightly been learned. Headlines like

"Retired RAF pilot saves bomber from air show disaster"


didn't help either. :smile:

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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by parsley »

Still,have to say it was an excellent piece of diversion from RedsRolling to bring up the Victor incident :clap:

vulcan558
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by vulcan558 »

parsley wrote:Still,have to say it was an excellent piece of diversion from RedsRolling to bring up the Victor incident :clap:

Just shows how good Bruntinthorpes is, a place with a big expanse a layout that its proves its a safe place
To do theses runs, 30 years of taxi running and one small incident that lessons have gained from.

Suggest we get back on track and get this topic back on XH558.
So the last engine run day, they had a problem starting so that group got a look inside the cockpit instead.
Lot of money to look inside a Vulcan cockpit, a cockpit that is not periodcorrect either.

Not looking good on the maintenance side of things, are things starting to slip and will things get worse.

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MicrolightDriver
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by MicrolightDriver »

vulcan558 wrote:
parsley wrote:Still,have to say it was an excellent piece of diversion from RedsRolling to bring up the Victor incident :clap:

Just shows how good Bruntinthorpes is, a place with a big expanse a layout that its proves its a safe place
To do theses runs, 30 years of taxi running and one small incident that lessons have gained from.

Suggest we get back on track and get this topic back on XH558.
So the last engine run day, they had a problem starting so that group got a look inside the cockpit instead.
Lot of money to look inside a Vulcan cockpit, a cockpit that is not periodcorrect either.

Not looking good on the maintenance side of things, are things starting to slip and will things get worse.


Self contradiction again - it was you who just blabbed about other incidents at Bruntingthorpe over the years!

For those that went to the early 558 taxi runs in thd early 90s.
It was not just the nose wheel that left the ground on some runs.


Anyway, I don't think dredging up 'silicagate', 'rollgate', the Victor incident or any other historic mistake is really relevant, and I've no objection to 'getting back on topic'.

On that front, I don't see why a problem with one piece of ground equipment is the sign of anything sinister. I'm sure some people will enjoy themselves thinking otherwise of course.

Also, a trip in to the cockpit while you're waiting for the main event sounds like a pretty good bonus to me! I wonder how many people reading this would have turned it down on account of it being 'not period correct'?

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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by JetMan »

vulcan558 wrote:So the last engine run day, they had a problem starting so that group got a look inside the cockpit instead.
Lot of money to look inside a Vulcan cockpit, a cockpit that is not periodcorrect either.

Not looking good on the maintenance side of things, are things starting to slip and will things get worse.


There was nothing wrong with the aircraft or the maintenance... The air starter wouldn’t start, which for a 50+ year old piece of kit is quite understandable. Taff is still in charge, and I’m pretty sure he won’t allow things to slip, why would he? I think going into the cockpit will become the norm for the engine runs now, I did one last year and they had a lucky draw on the day of all of the names on the experience and one got to ride in the tug to/from the running pan and another got to go in the cockpit for the second ‘howl’.

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Brevet Cable
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Brevet Cable »

JetMan wrote:Taff is still in charge, and I’m pretty sure he won’t allow things to slip, why would he?

Thought he'd gone to Waddington ( as per Sam's post on the VTTS forum last year ) so wasn't full time with VTST any more....or has that changed?
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MicrolightDriver
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by MicrolightDriver »

Brevet Cable wrote:
JetMan wrote:Taff is still in charge, and I’m pretty sure he won’t allow things to slip, why would he?

Thought he'd gone to Waddington ( as per Sam's post on the VTTS forum last year ) so wasn't full time with VTST any more....or has that changed?


No I don't think that's changed - of course that doesn't mean he's not still 'in charge' however..

JetMan
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by JetMan »

MicrolightDriver wrote:
Brevet Cable wrote:
JetMan wrote:Taff is still in charge, and I’m pretty sure he won’t allow things to slip, why would he?

Thought he'd gone to Waddington ( as per Sam's post on the VTTS forum last year ) so wasn't full time with VTST any more....or has that changed?


No I don't think that's changed - of course that doesn't mean he's not still 'in charge' however..


Taff is working for 2excel now at Doncaster. He is in charge of the volunteer ground crew and has overseen all of the maintenance and the ground runs.

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MicrolightDriver
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by MicrolightDriver »

JetMan wrote:
MicrolightDriver wrote:
Brevet Cable wrote:
JetMan wrote:Taff is still in charge, and I’m pretty sure he won’t allow things to slip, why would he?

Thought he'd gone to Waddington ( as per Sam's post on the VTTS forum last year ) so wasn't full time with VTST any more....or has that changed?


No I don't think that's changed - of course that doesn't mean he's not still 'in charge' however..


Taff is working for 2excel now at Doncaster. He is in charge of the volunteer ground crew and has overseen all of the maintenance and the ground runs.


That's good news which I don't remember being mentioned before. Thanks for the update.

Xm657
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Xm657 »

Indeed, I'd heard Taff Stone has been back at Doncaster for some time. He was at Waddington but I guess that was only short term. 558 is in very good hands as long as he is remains associated with her - just hope VTTST keep him at all costs. That said, he helped the VRT with their taxi run at Southend last December, so he may well help 558 on a volunteer basis if it came to it. Hard to find anyone more enthusiastic and knowledgeable about Vulcans.

JetMan
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by JetMan »

As an aside from all the ‘Doom and Gloom’ about the VTTS, their volunteers are still making good work with the restoration of XL388. From their latest Facebook post, it looks as though they will be starting to paint it soon.

[fb-post]https://www.facebook.com/VulcanXL388/posts/2076520002562263[/fb-post]

Gregg
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Post by Gregg »

JetMan wrote:
MicrolightDriver wrote:
Brevet Cable wrote:
JetMan wrote:Taff is still in charge, and I’m pretty sure he won’t allow things to slip, why would he?

Thought he'd gone to Waddington ( as per Sam's post on the VTTS forum last year ) so wasn't full time with VTST any more....or has that changed?


No I don't think that's changed - of course that doesn't mean he's not still 'in charge' however..


Taff is working for 2excel now at Doncaster. He is in charge of the volunteer ground crew and has overseen all of the maintenance and the ground runs.


Who was in charge and overseeing things the day the silica bags weren't seen?

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