Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Tommy on Thu 04 Jul 2019, 5:31 am

Standard Brexiteer whataboutery and absolutism from you there, pal.

Why are Brexiteers unable just to say “yeah that was a bit pathetic” without having to resort to “yeah, well what about X?” Or “if that’s pathetic, here’s a list of other people doing similar stuff that i’ve frantically googled”.

Obviously the Brexit party aren’t Nazis. Nick never said that. He just noted the parallels and the need for them, if they want to be taken seriously, to avoid drawing those parallels and doing that sort of stunt. It’s a point I don’t actually fully agree with, but at least I’ve got nuance enough to know he’s doing it from a place of thought, and not saying “everyone who turns their backs on people is a Nazi”, like you are.

But there we are. It’s another thing negative story against Brexit its proponents, so Eric must jump to defend it. Thus stupid whataboutery and absolutism come once again running to the fore.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Paul_Reflex on Thu 04 Jul 2019, 7:11 am

You do have to wonder whether you are more likely to attract comparisons to Nazis if you are a party of right wing nationalists. The Brexit Party are not concerned about this because they revel in being called Nazis. It gives them the out-group panache they seek to appeal to the disaffected.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Pat Murphy on Thu 04 Jul 2019, 7:37 am

I wrote a long post yesterday morning about the events in the EU parliament chamber and got a bit ranty. Posted it, thought better of it and deleted it. The crux of it being it was crass and rude to do what they did, but totally unsurprising given the moron in charge of it. My job brings me into contact with people with widely differing views on the rights and wrongs of Brexit. However, the one thing i can say with all honesty, is nobody and I mean nobody has professed to stating:

This Brexit thing, It's all going great isn't it?

So what happens next, Johnson? Do me a favour. Hunt? Likewise. I think we'll shuffle on towards the door marked Clusterfunk with little happening other than recess and Conference season. The EU will refuse to negotiate the WA and the Stop No-Dealers will have a week in October to try and Block No Deal. After that, well we're back to all bets are off.

GE? Then Jeremy Corbyn? Doesn't look as though he can lead a party, let alone the country. LibDems to form a gov of National Unity with the Greens? Getting into the realms of fantasy land now. The one thing I don't see on the Horizon, is "Sunny Uplands"

Hold on tight everyone.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby jalfrezi on Thu 04 Jul 2019, 8:15 am

ericbee123 wrote:
jalfrezi wrote:The problem with the Brexit Party's protest is it's the same as the Nazi Party's protest in the Reichstag in the 1930s. When you're a right wing, anti-immigration party that will draw unwelcome comparisons and open you up to ridicule, it was an astonishing own goal in my opinion.


Those Nazis at Man City should be shamed too.

Turning your back in a crowd is so racist.



Yeah, you completely missed my point there fella - I never said they were Nazis. I've marked in bold the point you clearly missed.


Paul_Reflex wrote:You do have to wonder whether you are more likely to attract comparisons to Nazis if you are a party of right wing nationalists. The Brexit Party are not concerned about this because they revel in being called Nazis. It gives them the out-group panache they seek to appeal to the disaffected.


I think you're probably right, although it's just another divisive action which will polarise support either for, or against them.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby MiG_Eater on Thu 04 Jul 2019, 8:47 am

I think its fair enough. 'The Brexit Party' represent those of us who don't think we should be involved in the European Parliament and they are making that point in a visible way. Let's not forget that that particular party won the EU elections in this country.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby LN Strike Eagle on Thu 04 Jul 2019, 9:05 am

MiG_Eater wrote:I think its fair enough. 'The Brexit Party' represent those of us who don't think we should be involved in the European Parliament and they are making that point in a visible way. Let's not forget that that particular party won the EU elections in this country.

Then they should do as Sinn Fein do in Westminster and not take their seats. To have the nerve to moan on about the gravy train while they all clock in for their daily allowance is beyond the pale.
"You really are an oafish philistine at times!"
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby MiG_Eater on Thu 04 Jul 2019, 9:15 am

Actually - I totally agree with you LN.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby rockfordstone on Thu 04 Jul 2019, 9:30 am

LN Strike Eagle wrote:
MiG_Eater wrote:I think its fair enough. 'The Brexit Party' represent those of us who don't think we should be involved in the European Parliament and they are making that point in a visible way. Let's not forget that that particular party won the EU elections in this country.

Then they should do as Sinn Fein do in Westminster and not take their seats. To have the nerve to moan on about the gravy train while they all clock in for their daily allowance is beyond the pale.

also i don't believe Sinn Fein take their ministerial pay either.
totally agree. if they dislike it so much just don't show up and don't take a pay check.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Paul_Reflex on Thu 04 Jul 2019, 12:43 pm

Ann Widecombe comparing Brexit to the emancipation of slaves in the EU parliament was painfully embarrassing to watch.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby AlexC on Thu 04 Jul 2019, 2:43 pm

Just about anything that Ann Widdecombe says or does is embarrassing to watch! :sick:
Pte. Aubrey Gerald Harmer, R. Suss. R. (att. to the Sherwood Foresters) KIA 26/9/1917 Polygon Wood, aged 19, NKG. RIP
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby CJS on Thu 04 Jul 2019, 8:55 pm

AlexC wrote:Just about anything that Ann Widdecombe says or does is embarrassing to watch! :sick:


Just about?

Why so generous?
"Forewarned is forearmed"
How do you know I didn't?
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby LN Strike Eagle on Thu 04 Jul 2019, 8:58 pm

Quite. Just her voice is like fingernails on a chalkboard to my ears, before you even take into account the gibberish she's spouting. :sick:
"You really are an oafish philistine at times!"
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby rockfordstone on Fri 05 Jul 2019, 7:11 am

she reminded me of the crazy cat lady in the simpsons
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby parsley on Fri 05 Jul 2019, 8:30 am

rockfordstone wrote:she reminded me of the crazy cat lady in the simpsons


There's also some resemblance to Doc Brown from Back to the Future (albeit not in height and Christopher Lloyd had a marginally better hair stylist !)
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby AlexC on Fri 05 Jul 2019, 8:52 am

CJS wrote:
Just about?

Why so generous?


You're quite right to pick me up on that. I should have said that everything that she says or does is embarrassing.
Pte. Aubrey Gerald Harmer, R. Suss. R. (att. to the Sherwood Foresters) KIA 26/9/1917 Polygon Wood, aged 19, NKG. RIP
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby parsley on Fri 05 Jul 2019, 9:16 am

I suspect we are quite likely to have a string of Brexit Party MEP's trying to outdo each other in offensiveness in the European Parliament in the coming months.

Just to add the beloved leader has form in the European Parliament on this (he was fined 10 days expenses in 2010 for insulting the EU President in the Chamber and then told all who would listen about free speech being denied ) so this could be the start of a gambit to try and be penalised by the EU Parliament so they can "demonstrate" to the faithful that the EU is a dictatorship that denies the people's "representatives" democracy and free speech.
Believe the LibDem MEP who followed Doris Karloff's speech yesterday was after stating that the Brexit MEP's did not represent all in the UK was treated to a bout of desk thumping and bellowing from them.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby CJS on Fri 05 Jul 2019, 1:48 pm

AlexC wrote:
CJS wrote:
Just about?

Why so generous?


You're quite right to pick me up on that. I should have said that everything that she says or does is embarrassing.


Much better, thank you :up: :grin:
"Forewarned is forearmed"
How do you know I didn't?
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby AlexC on Fri 05 Jul 2019, 7:26 pm

Actually Miriam Margolyes is even worse, she's simply revolting. :sick:
Pte. Aubrey Gerald Harmer, R. Suss. R. (att. to the Sherwood Foresters) KIA 26/9/1917 Polygon Wood, aged 19, NKG. RIP
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AlexC

Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby iainpeden on Fri 05 Jul 2019, 8:57 pm

Ann Widdecombe was quite amusing in “Strickly”
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby AlexC on Sat 06 Jul 2019, 9:04 am

Never watched it, not my thing.
Pte. Aubrey Gerald Harmer, R. Suss. R. (att. to the Sherwood Foresters) KIA 26/9/1917 Polygon Wood, aged 19, NKG. RIP
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AlexC

Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby iainpeden on Sat 06 Jul 2019, 9:27 am

AlexC wrote:Never watched it, not my thing.

My wife was watching, I just happened to glimpse it from time to time. :heyhey:

Doesn't it show what a pantomime this has become, the most important peace time decision facing the country and we're discussing (well, alright I started it) sequinned minor celebrities. And the next thing is the Tory leadership campaign with some members getting a double vote, not that any of them would use it of course!
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby AlexC on Sat 06 Jul 2019, 2:14 pm

If they did happen to use both votes they'd be kicked out of the party....allegedly. :question:
Pte. Aubrey Gerald Harmer, R. Suss. R. (att. to the Sherwood Foresters) KIA 26/9/1917 Polygon Wood, aged 19, NKG. RIP
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Zoom on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 10:04 pm

is it just me or have I missed something? BoJo may prorogue Parliament so he can get his no deal exit through....

but why?

Apart from triggering Article 50 Parliament has failed to agree on any course of action out of this mess, May's deal, No Deal, 2nd referendum or revoke Article 50. So not sure why given from now until 31.10 they are suddenly going to pass something that will see us leave with anything, there just isn't going to be a majority for any of the above.
In which case the cliff is that way >
Zoom

Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby rockfordstone on Fri 12 Jul 2019, 8:15 am

Zoom wrote:is it just me or have I missed something? BoJo may prorogue Parliament so he can get his no deal exit through....

but why?

Apart from triggering Article 50 Parliament has failed to agree on any course of action out of this mess, May's deal, No Deal, 2nd referendum or revoke Article 50. So not sure why given from now until 31.10 they are suddenly going to pass something that will see us leave with anything, there just isn't going to be a majority for any of the above.
In which case the cliff is that way >


proroguing parliament means effectively shutting it down which basically means it wouldn't have the ability to vote on no deal.
as no deal is the default set out by the triggering of A50, it would just mean we lapse into a no deal on the 31st. no parliamentary vote needed, go straight to the cliff, don't pass go, don't collect £200.

if this were to happen, it would massively undermine the parliamentary sovereignty which is so precious to brexiters.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Tommy on Fri 12 Jul 2019, 11:43 am

Parliament have voted against allowing itself to be prorogued, so Boris can’t shut it down.

Likewise, Parliament has to have a say in “No Deal”. Boris can’t self-declare it. (I think; this is off the top of my head.)

I wonder whether there’s a problem brewing for Boris that hasn’t been spoken of this far, and is a consequence of his inability to accept reality; if the extension granted by the EU expressly is on condition of not re-opening the withdrawal agreement, then would the act of reopening it, as Boris and Hunt (and the rest bar Stewart) think they can do void the extension? Would we not fall automatically into no deal if the EU allowed the agreement to reopen?

They surely can’t allow it to be reopened under such circumstances. Automatic no deal holds the door shut on any renegotiation. I’m sure the papers will run with “mean bullying EU won’t listen to Boris”, but I don’t see how they can now if to do so would void the extension agreement?

Zoom wrote: In which case the cliff is that way >


Indeed, and revocation and returning back to some semblance of normality is that way <
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