Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

[ExVulcanGC]

I suppose the question I have is this; what specific, tangible, thing(s) have I got to look forward to on the day after Halloween?

It’s been so long since someone told me something good about Brexit.

1. The sun will still rise.
2. You will still be able to buy food, drink, newspapers, petrol and it will probably be at the same price as before Halloween.
3. You will still be able to go on holiday, the exchange rate might mean you have to convert a few more pounds for your Euros/Dollars.
4. Flights will still leave and arrive at airports around UK/Europe/World.
5. You will still get medicine and medical help in the same timescales as you currently enjoy.
6. You will still be able to work in European countries.
7. People from Europe and the rest of the world will still come to the UK.

Conversely, as some have been telling us over the last three years:
1. The sun will fail to rise.
2. You will starve once your stockpiled food has run out, you won't get petrol so commuting around UK will be seriously curtailed etc, etc.
3. Holidays will be no more as the aircraft and ferries and Tunnel are closed to UK registered people.
4. As in 3 no flights leave/arrive in the UK.
5. We will all pass away due to no NHS or medicine being available to UK registered personnel.
6. All UK residents working in Europe will be kicked out and no-one will be able to work in the future.
7. All movement into the UK will be stopped, so no visitors/workers/vacationers.

So really, as can be seen, depends on which side of the debate you are on it is either business as usual or a complete clusterfcuk, but which ever side you are on it is impossible for either side to forecast what will happen after Halloween, it is all opinion based on no empirical data as no-one has ever left the EU before, but until the UK leaves it is all a moot point anyway.

Conspiracy theory alert:
I still think there are those who can influence the exchange rates/economy that are making a lot of money out of the headline anti brexit rhetoric that they expouse and not because they believe it to be true, they have found a new gravy train to making lots of money.

[Tommy]

I suppose the question I have is this; what specific, tangible, thing(s) have I got to look forward to on the day after Halloween?

It’s been so long since someone told me something good about Brexit.

1. The sun will still rise.
2. You will still be able to buy food, drink, newspapers, petrol and it will probably be at the same price as before Halloween.
3. You will still be able to go on holiday, the exchange rate might mean you have to convert a few more pounds for your Euros/Dollars.
4. Flights will still leave and arrive at airports around UK/Europe/World.
5. You will still get medicine and medical help in the same timescales as you currently enjoy.
6. You will still be able to work in European countries.
7. People from Europe and the rest of the world will still come to the UK.

So you haven’t answered my question, as every part of your response states “still” meaning that we get it now. Meaning that there is no benefit or pro in your list that we need to peruse Brexit on to get, so why Brexit?

I’m asking for what I can look forward to from 1st November onwards. To look forward to something implies that it is a thing one is not yet in possession of.

Not trying to be clever or anything, just genuinely curious. I’ve lost count of how many times I have asked this. What have we got to look forward to? For what benefit are we doing this? Why has the government just announced £2.1 Billion is set aside for this policy it has chosen to do?

Perhaps this is a discussion Brexiteers need to have with themselves. What are we getting on 1st November that we don’t get now? And why are people so desperate to get it?

Also, ExVulcanGC, whom has ever said, seriously, that the sun won’t rise following Brexit?

[LN Strike Eagle]

it is either business as usual

How can it possibly be business as usual? If you tear up 759 international treaties, and life carries on unchanged, why do we even have the treaties in the first place? The might just be pieces of paper, but pieces of paper make the world go around. Hypothetically speaking, you could lose your driving licence tomorrow - the only difference between tomorrow and yesterday is the piece of paper that says you are allowed to drive is no longer valid. You still know how. You can still physically carry out the actions required to drive. You'll still have a car on the driveway. But no longer having that valid piece of paper stops you from driving (legally, if not physically), and therefore it isn't "business as usual" for you.

Conspiracy theory alert:
I still think there are those who can influence the exchange rates/economy that are making a lot of money out of the headline anti brexit rhetoric that they expouse and not because they believe it to be true, they have found a new gravy train to making lots of money.

I think you ought to look a little closer to home and read in some more detail about what Nigel Farage was up to on the evening on the referendum result, and how his mates made a killing betting on the pound...



I just don't understand how some people can be so stubborn and blind to what is going on around them, and I'm starting to lose my patience with it. Brexit is a slow motion car crash, and you're still clinging onto the fantasy you were promised when it's plain as day that it doesn't exist. "Project Fear" is a reality - if we carried on "business as usual", then why on earth are the government spunking £billions upon £billions on preparing for a threat that you choose to believe isn't real?

[ExVulcanGC]

Also, ExVulcanGC, whom has ever said, seriously, that the sun won’t rise following Brexit?

Your right no-one has actually said that but across the media there have been those whose flights have fancy against Brexit have bordered on the notion that the world will end for them, the Chicken Little effect so to speak.

To try to put that cause and effect list into perspective I wrote it to counter the alleged Project Fear disasters and put them into perspective, but to try and answer your serious question:
1. Our elected government will run our country and our economy, rather than be sucked into the upcoming economic problems the Euro is heading for apparently, not anything to do with Brexit.
2. Ability to trade with existing countries we trade with without the EU tariffs being applied and the ability to freely trade with new countries we don’t currently trade with as a member of the EU, so not restricted by them as we currently are.
3. Hopefully control the rate of immigration at a level that the country can sustain, rather than being told we have to take in what the Brussel’s management tell us to. I know that some blame our own government for that failing, but at the moment they can blame the EU, when it is their own responsibility
4. Make our own laws that are relevant to our society rather than ones from an homogenous one size fits all that the EU imposes.
5. Stay an independent country rather than becoming one large entity that is controlled from Brussel’s.
6. Have a lot more of our money to use as our government see fit rather than getting a small rebate that is spent how Brussel’s states it should be.
7. Our economy may take a dip initially, but should then rapidly improve due to a large majority of the economist who have claimed for lots of years that the EU is holding back our economy, effectively we are doing ok but not as good as we could be on our own.
8. The exchange rate is currently controlled and there are businesses that are making good while it lasts, after Brexit it is believed that the exchange rate will rise to a stable level, don’t forget there are those who claimed the exchange rate was too high before the referendum and was causing the risk of an economic downturn.
9. The farmers should gain once free of the Common Agricultural Policy which is for the benefit of the French farmers at the detriment of our own.
10. Fishing, don’t know what to believe here honestly, I have read that it will improve the UK fishing industry being free of EU control.
11. Brexit has highlighted the deficiencies in the whole of Westminster, with luck this may get addressed by leaving, accountability is with our Government not devolved to Brussel’s.

I cannot think of anything else at this moment, but do know that just as equally a few of you will counter the whole of the above with the complete opposite, as you will always believe your view is correct that it will be a clusterfcuk, but that is part of what a debate is all about.

As for the comment I made about ‘business as usual’ that was again due to reading how everything will stop the day after we leave, in fact across the media there was that view that that would happen the day after the referendum result if the country voted to leave, and that did not happen either, so business as usual does not mean to imply that the UK would be exactly the same as if it was in the EU, that would be a waste of time, it is just to become an independent nation again standing on our own two feet and in charge of our own destiny.

Of course there are going to be ups and downs, but don’t believe it will be anything like the disaster that some claim, some might find change difficult to cope with and manage as they have become too reliant on having someone else 9The EU) to make their decisions, it was ever so and Brexit, or not Brexit, will not change that. The UK economy has failed before, and badly, but at least the UK was capable and did recover to keep us in the top ten economies, and on our own could climb higher than we currently are, doubt we will fail on our own again. within the EU we are at the mercy of the EU economic controls and if they fail it takes us down with them, on our own we control our destiny

Bottom line is nothing anyone on the leave side states that will change the opinionated diatribe that is abound by those against Brexit, so that is why on the whole the leave side don't get embroiled in the arguments, I have tried again to honestly answer your question Tommy and as I have said before none will be seen as a benefit and all will be refuted by remain, so the bottom line is, we are on this course and only time will tell which side is right, I suspect that in reality it will be a bit of both but ultimately the UK will be better for it, we will never find out though if we do not leave.

[Brevet Cable]

The thing is, though, that - as LNSE states - your first post only applies if we leave with some form of deal, as that would be the starting point for the negotiations which would follow afterwards, whereby we would still operate under the existing EU tariffs & agreements for however long those negotiations take to resolve.

If we leave without a deal, we automatically default to the most basic WTO trade rules, which even the most ardent pro-Leave ERG members such as JRM admit will take many years ( some of them have stated over 30 years ) to resolve.

As for your second post....
1. We aren't in the Euro. Any fluctuation would affect us the same as it does now.

2. I refer you to my comments above. Even members of the ERG have admitted it will be difficult for us as an individual Country to negotiate trade deals to match those already in place.

3. We already can, as has been pointed out by several of us a number of times.....some EU Countries ( including Belgium ) have already started using those existing rules to kick out EU citizens who aren't nationals of their Country.

4. Another thing we can already do & something other EU Countries do now....as posted several times before, the UK have been their own worst enemy in this respect, because we take policy documents from the EU & write them into our laws unchanged, unlike other Countries such as France who re-work them to suit their needs.

7. That must be a different 'large majority of economists' to the ones saying that if we leave with no deal & default to basic WTO trade rules it'll take years - more likely decades - to bring us back to where we are now.

8. The £ will continue to be 'controlled' just the same as it is now & will still be traded at the whim of people like Farage & his mates who think nothing of destabilising currencies to benefit themselves.

9. The Welsh, Scottish & NI farmers would differ on that opinion....presumably the English ones do too.

10. A lot of the UK fishing industry isn't British - the skippers / owners flogged their licenses to foreign companies decades ago.
what British boats still exist are hated by foreign skippers ( and governments ) due to their dodgy - often illegal - practices.
Unless a deal is reached, don't be surprised if British-registered fishing boats find themselves banned from other Countries territorial waters.

[ExVulcanGC]

If you get a remain business person, Fisherman/woman, Farmer or member of the general public's views published you will get the remain opinion that is posted here and other media sites with varying degrees of added verbiage, if you get a leave business person, Fisherman/woman, Farmer or member of the general public's views published you will get the leave opinion posted, though rarely due to the backlash that it has historically received. Also, anything written by leave is usually dismissed as nonsense, untrue, chasing rainbows and Unicorns, yet, the remain opinion is always touted as correct and the factual outcome of Brexit, yet as people keep pointing out until we leave it is all opinion and conjecture.


The opinions of both sides are supported by the experts, economists and businesses, so what makes the remain ones more likely to be correct than the leave ones, with the best will in the world Tommy I tried to give you an honest answer with the second post to your serious question, but it was, and always will be, a futile effort in the face of the dogged resistance to change that Brexit will bring, even if that change improves the economy and wellbeing of the UK.

[Brevet Cable]

The areas with fishing industries predominantly voted to leave, often by a heavy majority ( 75%+ )
Most of the predominantly agricultural areas voted to leave.

The Brecon & Radnorshire region ( where the farmers gave PMBJ a hard time last week ) voted to leave.

Whilst many of them still say they support leaving, they are expressing grave reservations about the gulf between what they were promised pre-referendum & what the reality looks likely to be.

You seem to be forgetting the fact that anything written by economists, etc who are considered to be pro-Remain ( often simply for questioning the claims by pro-Leave campaigners ) have been shouted-down as being 'Project Fear'.

[ExVulcanGC]

You seem to be forgetting the fact that anything written by economists, etc who are considered to be pro-Remain ( often simply for questioning the claims by pro-Leave campaigners ) have been shouted-down as being 'Project Fear'.

I think you may also be forgetting that anything written by economists, etc who are pro-leave ( often simply for questioning the claims by pro-remain campaigners) have been shouted-down as fake news, chasing unicorns, and not educated/experienced in the subject matter to the same level as the remain sides are, therefore are not qualified to offer an opinion/forecast.


Everything has two sides and as has been apparent on this subject there is little point in continuing the debate when each side believes they are right, it is even more pointless when one side (remain) believes they have the monopoly on being more right.

[Brevet Cable]

The same argument could be made against pro-Leave supporters & campaigners.

[Zoom]

so 3 years later we are back to Square One, leaving with no idea how;

and ventriloquist's dummy Gove now says it's the EU's fault for refusing to budge from the final deal that he voted for and that they said was final before he or Bozo stood for PM.

But Tories are good at blaming everyone else (including Labour for not voting for Dododeal and probably us for not respecking the Referendum result in the 2017 GE)

[Spiny Norman]

A government's main task is the safety of its citizens.

No-deal Brexit would harm UK security, senior officer warns
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/aug/07/no-deal-brexit-would-harm-uk-security-senior-officer-warns

[Tommy]

Also, ExVulcanGC, whom has ever said, seriously, that the sun won’t rise following Brexit?

Your right no-one has actually said that but...

No, that’s it. There is no “but”. If no-one has said it, then don’t say it! You presented a mistruth as a fact. Literally point number 1. Of your list in response to my question was a lie. A lot of the problems with Brexit are that people exaggerate the other’s opinions. Brexiteers keep doing this in this thread; they take a remain opinion, and kick it into the long grass. So “I think Brexit will be bad for the U.K.” turns into “the sun won’t rise again”. It’s stupid and immature and honestly, my friend, of all the Brexiteers in this thread, I thought you were better and more mature than that.

it was, and always will be, a futile effort in the face of the dogged resistance to change that Brexit will bring, even if that change improves the economy and wellbeing of the UK.

And what if that change does the opposite and does not improve the economy well-being of the U.K.?

At what point, hypothetically, would you and other Brexiteers acknowledge that you were wrong? What would have to happen for Brexiteers to acknowledge failure? Recession? Continued decline in influence, power, happiness and prosperity? Because the three years of turgid crap we’ve had, despite endless promises of sunlit uplands just around the corner, has been woeful so far. To which Brexiteer do I submit my invoice to cover the reduced number of euros I now get due to the weakened pound when withdrawing cash for my upcoming holiday?

What job opportunities have Brexiteers scored from Brexit to assuage those who face redundancy at Toyota, Nissan, JLR, Ford, etc?

And likewise, what lies need to be exposed as lies before Brexiteers acknowledge they were misled? The £350m lie didn’t change Brexiteer minds, so what else? Immigration? The actual reality of WTO rules and tariffs (see my long WTO post for that)?

And no, it’s not a “both sides have their own merits, both supported by experts”. Vote Leave don’t get to claim, as you have, that there are just as many experts supporting Brexit as there are against it. Not after Michael Gove said that “we’re tired of experts”. He said that for a reason. It was the Leave campaign’s way of getting around the previously pretty tricky question of how Vote Leave justified itself when most experts thought it would be bad. Same with “Project Fear” which, stupid phrase that it is, is still used today. It’s post-truth in the extreme to not portray each side as a 50:50 argument on the basis of expert opinion. It’s not.

We’re beyond that. We’re talking about what is in front of us, and that’s, currently, a no deal Brexit. And I do not believe for a second that anyone voted to leave the European Union without a deal.

Something I haven’t seen any evidence of contemplation of from Brexiteers. What if they are wrong? Has any Brexiteer considered this? What if Remain is right? Can they justify that risk against their own unqualified and undetailed belief that *somehow* we’ll be ok? Is it worth the devalued pound and lost reputation to make our own laws when they can’t name a single EU law forced upon us against our will that they don’t like?

I consider what happens if I’m wrong all the time. Hell I usually just accept that I’m wrong and an irrelevance at best on almost anything. That formed part of my consideration of whether I support Leave or Remain. I know what happens if I’m wrong - things go on as normal. Or we even do reach those sunlit uplands. That’s all good. I would *love* to be wrong on Brexit. But what if Brexiteers are wrong?

[Tommy]

As for my actual thoughts on where we are, worth remembering two points:

1) the backstop was a U.K. invention and requirement, and a significant gesture of goodwill from the EU to include it; and

2) just think about how much better and nuanced and mature and lovely it would be if we had revoked Article 50 and set about with a new plan from scratch, rather than where we are now - which is not what anyone voted for.

Ohh, that’s another thing - given Brexiteers’ love for democracy and decrying anti-democratic proposals for a second referendum, or indeed the unelected EU bureaucrats; how do they acquiesce themselves with an unelected PM acting on a mandate voted for by no-one to carry out Brexit? They must be frothing at the mouth at such an act of undemocracy.

[jalfrezi]

The whole thing is an absolute mess, so much for Liam Fox's "easiest trade deal in history", if we crash out with a no deal then don't expect the EU to be in any rush to agree a new deal with us, particularly if we withhold the £39 billion that we owe them - that money will be a requirement before they start any future negotiations.

I'm just fed up with it all, it seems to go from bad to worse, Boris Johnson as PM, I mean WTF!

I'm building up my stockpile of 'I told you so's ready for the unmitigated disaster that is to come. I just hope that the number of people that lose their livelihoods is minimal.

[rockfordstone]

Something I haven’t seen any evidence of contemplation of from Brexiteers. What if they are wrong? Has any Brexiteer considered this? What if Remain is right? Can they justify that risk against their own unqualified and undetailed belief that *somehow* we’ll be ok? Is it worth the devalued pound and lost reputation to make our own laws when they can’t name a single EU law forced upon us against our will that they don’t like?

the brexiters won't be wrong. if it goes tits up it will be the EU's fault, then remainers fault for not believing enough and trying to disrupt the process, then probably the WTO's fault for being undemocratic. I'm even of the opinion that BoJo will push for a GE and throw it so that whoever takes in can be blamed for the failure.

it will only dawn on them when they are jobless, and on the streets campaigning agains the government, at which point the government turns round and says "you asked for this. you knew what you were voting for"

[Brevet Cable]

the brexiters won't be wrong. if it goes tits up it will be the EU's fault, then remainers fault for not believing enough and trying to disrupt the process, then probably the WTO's fault for being undemocratic. I'm even of the opinion that BoJo will push for a GE and throw it so that whoever takes in can be blamed for the failure.

it will only dawn on them when they are jobless, and on the streets campaigning against the government, at which point the government turns round and says "you asked for this. you knew what you were voting for"

Depends.

When it comes to PMBJ, the politest description I've heard from people I know who voted Leave is that he's a "bloody imbecile" & none of them have any faith or trust in anything he says ( and that comes from those who are ardent Conservative voters too )

When it's pointed out that they voted for it, their comments are along the lines of "I didn't vote for this bloody shambles" & whilst some of them have come out with 'why don't we just leave', now it's coming to the point where we're looking increasingly likely to leave with no-deal they're all saying "we didn't vote for that".

No doubt there are Leave voters out there who do want to leave with no deal ( even if some don't understand the implications ) but I suspect many don't.

[rockfordstone]

the brexiters won't be wrong. if it goes tits up it will be the EU's fault, then remainers fault for not believing enough and trying to disrupt the process, then probably the WTO's fault for being undemocratic. I'm even of the opinion that BoJo will push for a GE and throw it so that whoever takes in can be blamed for the failure.

it will only dawn on them when they are jobless, and on the streets campaigning against the government, at which point the government turns round and says "you asked for this. you knew what you were voting for"

Depends.

When it comes to PMBJ, the politest description I've heard from people I know who voted Leave is that he's a "bloody imbecile" & none of them have any faith or trust in anything he says ( and that comes from those who are ardent Conservative voters too )

When it's pointed out that they voted for it, their comments are along the lines of "I didn't vote for this bloody shambles" & whilst some of them have come out with 'why don't we just leave', now it's coming to the point where we're looking increasingly likely to leave with no-deal they're all saying "we didn't vote for that".

No doubt there are Leave voters out there who do want to leave with no deal ( even if some don't understand the implications ) but I suspect many don't.

if social media or radio is a reflection of some of the leave voters around, a lot of them believe that they did vote for no deal and that losing their jobs and being poorer is acceptable if it means being free from the anti democratic EU.

as it happens. most brexit voters i know have either converted and now want to remain or doubled down and want out no matter what it costs.

[Brevet Cable]

Watching a Scottish Skipper on the news earlier, a pro-Leave supporter.
His big argument...."If they won't give us access to EU waters, we won't give them access to ours!"
Bet that's got them worried.

Given his age, I'd have thought he'd remember the 'Cod Wars' & how well they turned out for Britain....and that was when we still had a Navy large enough to deploy.

[CJS]

LEAVER: I want an omelette.

REMAINER: Right. It’s just we haven’t got any eggs.

LEAVER: Yes, we have. There they are. [HE POINTS AT A CAKE]

REMAINER: They’re in the cake.

LEAVER: Yes, get them out of the cake, please.

REMAINER: But we voted in 1974 to put them into a cake.

LEAVER: Yes, but that cake has got icing on it. Nobody said there was going to be icing on it.

REMAINER: Icing is good.

LEAVER: And there are raisins in it. I don’t like raisins. Nobody mentioned raisins. I demand another vote.

DAVID CAMERON ENTERS.

DAVID CAMERON: OK.

DAVID CAMERON SCARPERS.

LEAVER: Right, where’s my omelette?

REMAINER: I told you, the eggs are in the cake.

LEAVER: Well, get them out.

EU: It’s our cake.

JEREMY CORBYN: Yes, get them out now.

REMAINER: I have absolutely no idea how to get them out. Don’t you know how to get them out?

LEAVER: Yes! You just get them out and then you make an omelette.

REMAINER: But how?! Didn’t you give this any thought?

LEAVER: Saboteur! You’re talking eggs down. We could make omelettes before the eggs went into the cake, so there’s no reason why we can’t make them now.

THERESA MAY: It’s OK, I can do it.

REMAINER: How?

THERESA MAY: There was a vote to remove the eggs from the cake, and so the eggs will be removed from the cake.

REMAINER: Yeah, but…

LEAVER: Hang on, if we take the eggs out of the cake, does that mean we don’t have any cake? I didn’t say I didn’t want the cake, just the bits I don’t like.

EU: It’s our cake.

REMAINER: But you can’t take the eggs out of the cake and then still have a cake.

LEAVER: You can. I saw the latest Bake Off and you can definitely make cakes without eggs in them. It’s just that they’re horrible.

REMAINER: Fine. Take the eggs out. See what happens.

LEAVER: It’s not my responsibility to take the eggs out. Get on with it.

REMAINER: Why should I have to come up with some long-winded incredibly difficult chemical process to extract eggs that have bonded at the molecular level to the cake, while somehow still having the cake?

LEAVER: You lost, get over it.

THERESA MAY: By the way, I’ve started the clock on this.

REMAINER: So I assume you have a plan?

THERESA MAY: Actually, back in a bit. Just having another election.

REMAINER: Jeremy, are you going to sort this out?

JEREMY CORBYN: Yes. No. Maybe.

EU: It’s our cake.

LEAVER: Where’s my omelette? I voted for an omelette.

REMAINER: This is ridiculous. This is never going to work. We should have another vote, or at least stop what we’re doing until we know how to get the eggs out of the cake while keeping the bits of the cake that we all like.

LEAVER/MAY/CORBYN: WE HAD A VOTE. STOP SABOTAGING THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE. EGGSIT MEANS EGGSIT.

REMAINER: Fine, I’m moving to France. The cakes are nicer there.

LEAVER: You can’t. We’ve taken your freedom of movement.

[rockfordstone]

economy has contracted for the first time since 2012 on the back of global slow down and brexit. project fear tho obvs

[vandal]

economy has contracted for the first time since 2012 on the back of global slow down and brexit. project fear though obvs

News on the radio saying Brexit 'partly responsible', and that the recent growth was helped by stockpiling. Chancellor also quick to say we're not heading for a recession.

[Brevet Cable]

Chris....you've obviously got too much time on your hands!

Interesting that some politicians & political pundits are still saying that PMBJ has no intention of forcing a 'no-deal' and all his posturing is merely a ploy to get the EU to back down.

Meanwhile, the pro-Leave parties are still too busy fighting amongst themselves ( and in the case of Labour, within itself ) to get their act together to try & stop us defaulting to 'no-deal'....and yet they still seem to be relying on 'Magic Grandpa' to force a VoNC.

[CJS]

Chris....you've obviously got too much time on your hands!

Interesting that some politicians & political pundits are still saying that PMBJ has no intention of forcing a 'no-deal' and all his posturing is merely a ploy to get the EU to back down.

Meanwhile, the pro-Leave parties are still too busy fighting amongst themselves ( and in the case of Labour, within itself ) to get their act together to try & stop us defaulting to 'no-deal'....and yet they still seem to be relying on 'Magic Grandpa' to force a VoNC.

I'd love to say I'd written it, but of course I didn't. Credit to whoever on Facebook

[boff180]

Gordon Brown is 100% correct with his views on this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49309113

I find this statistic particularly concerning and proves once and for all that we are hell bent on self destruction for the sake a blue passport.

A recent opinion poll for YouGov indicated that a majority of Conservative Party members prioritise leaving the EU over preserving the union.
Some 63% of respondents said they would rather Brexit took place even if it led to Scottish independence, and 59% expressed the same view about Brexit leading to Northern Ireland leaving the UK.

For someone who has the majority of the family living in Scotland, the prospect of being separated from them effectively by being in a different nation - I personally find terrifying.

[CJS]

Gordon Brown is 100% correct with his views on this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49309113

I find this statistic particularly concerning and proves once and for all that we are hell bent on self destruction for the sake a blue passport.

A recent opinion poll for YouGov indicated that a majority of Conservative Party members prioritise leaving the EU over preserving the union.
Some 63% of respondents said they would rather Brexit took place even if it led to Scottish independence, and 59% expressed the same view about Brexit leading to Northern Ireland leaving the UK.

For someone who has the majority of the family living in Scotland, the prospect of being separated from them effectively by being in a different nation - I personally find terrifying.

It's not just a blue passport Andy, we're going to have a commemorative 50p coin too things are looking up...