Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby MiG_Eater on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 2:55 pm

Jeremy Corbyn is one of the most appealing politicians there has been in this country for years. He saw off a coup from within his own party, and has survived three successive prime ministers - all the while, the media has run story after story of tripe about him.

However - his spineless behaviour on Brexit unfortunately revealed him to be just as power-hungry as most other successful socialists and, unfortunately - I can't support a Labour party with him at the helm.

Tony Benn would be spinning in his grave!
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Brevet Cable on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 3:30 pm

That wouldn't be much of a surprise, given that 'Wedgie' was staunchly opposed to us joining the EEC in the first place and campaigned to leave thereafter.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby AlexC on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 3:48 pm

MiG_Eater wrote:Jeremy Corbyn is one of the most appealing politicians there has been in this country for years.


Did you actually intend to say 'most appalling politicians etc.'? If so, I couldn't agree with you more! :up:
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Tommy on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 7:13 pm

Another Supreme Court nugget (I think - I need to check), but I’m pretty sure that one of the Supreme Court judges is one of the original three “Enemies of the People” that decided the Miller case in the High Court three years ago, who had their decision appealed by the Government (one of Theresa May’s first of many, many mistakes) to the SC.

I’ve been in work all day and not able to watch much, but if anyone is on Twitter, Joshua Rozenberg is the man to follow if one is interested. A fantastic and dispassionate legal commentator.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Brevet Cable on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 7:51 pm

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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Zoom on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 9:16 pm

Whilst I enjoyed the (possibly stage managed) Luxembourg besting of PMBJ it did sadly bring home a very real truth.

Neither the UK or the EU27 (individually or collectively) have a plan to avoid no deal. EU27 have sort of said no further extension but that could change at the last minute.

But it looks like PMBJ is heading determined towards the cliff. I hope he knows something no other sentient person in Europe (which geographically includes the British Isles) seems to know about how to avoid it :sad:
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Brevet Cable on Tue 17 Sep 2019, 9:32 pm

He has a plan.
Unfortunately, that plan revolves around the ridiculous 'the EU always blink at the last minute' bollocks pedalled by the pro-Leave hard-liners.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Tommy on Wed 18 Sep 2019, 7:10 am

Zoom wrote:
Neither the UK or the EU27 (individually or collectively) have a plan to avoid no deal.


Not strictly true. We had May’s deal. Which was pretty 3.6 roentgen, but still would have been Brexit.

But Boris, Francois, Rees-Mogg and all of the rest of the cabal of crapperdicks decided that they didn’t like it (before they had even read it or understood it, if they have ever read it). They screamed from the sidelines and got their precious column inches and radio shows and tv appearances, rather than offering any meaningful solutions.

May they be cursed to always eat a McDonald’s apple pie too soon and burn their tongue and not taste anything for a week.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby rockfordstone on Wed 18 Sep 2019, 7:24 am

Zoom wrote:Whilst I enjoyed the (possibly stage managed) Luxembourg besting of PMBJ it did sadly bring home a very real truth.

Neither the UK or the EU27 (individually or collectively) have a plan to avoid no deal. EU27 have sort of said no further extension but that could change at the last minute.

But it looks like PMBJ is heading determined towards the cliff. I hope he knows something no other sentient person in Europe (which geographically includes the British Isles) seems to know about how to avoid it :sad:


strictly speaking, it's not the EU's job to stop no deal. it's our government who needs to do that. we chose to leave the club, we can't then rely on the club to bail us out. the EU is much more prepared for it than we are

also they have technically offered us 2 deals aready.
1 - FTA with a border in the irish sea and NI remaining within a customs union/single market mechanism - theresa may rejected it and then signed a deal with the DUP making this more or less impossible without ditching them.
2 - The WA with a transition period.

the WA is leaving with a cushion. If not for the ERG and their cartoon spivs who are lapping up their 15 minutes we would have left by now. we could be working on a genuine solution for the NI issue and putting trade deals in place for when the transition ends

the EU has given us lots of time to sort out the NI issue, but we have spaffed it up the wall.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby pbeardmore on Wed 18 Sep 2019, 10:11 am

As a leaver with some rationality still, you have to admit that the EU seems to have acted with dignity thoughout the whole process (in complete contrast to our guys).
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Brevet Cable on Wed 18 Sep 2019, 10:56 am

Watching today's Supreme Court coverage, I'd have to say that I'd hate to have Eadie representing me! :dizzy:

Edited to add....
EU Parliament's voted to support an extension to A50 if requested.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby rockfordstone on Wed 18 Sep 2019, 11:10 am

Brevet Cable wrote:Watching today's Supreme Court coverage, I'd have to say that I'd hate to have Eadie representing me! :dizzy:

Edited to add....
EU Parliament's voted to support an extension to A50 if requested.

the thing is, if there is this mythical deal that johnson is peddling, surely there would need to be a "technical extension" in order to dot the t's and cross the i's anyway?
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby pbeardmore on Wed 18 Sep 2019, 11:37 am

Eadie and his team mate from yesterday : both truely dreadful. Genuinley surprised that this is the best the goc could come up with. And recognition for Miller for hiring someone half decent,

the romantic in me wants Spencer Tracer but you can't have everything
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby psquiddy on Wed 18 Sep 2019, 12:37 pm

So if there is an extension until January - what is going to change?

I don't recall hearing any suggestions that will make anything different then to how things are now and I don't see anything changing before the end of October.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby rockfordstone on Wed 18 Sep 2019, 12:51 pm

psquiddy wrote:So if there is an extension until January - what is going to change?

I don't recall hearing any suggestions that will make anything different then to how things are now and I don't see anything changing before the end of October.

i suspect it will only be granted if boris johnson comes up with a great idea for a deal, or a second referendum/general election is called
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Brevet Cable on Wed 18 Sep 2019, 2:00 pm

pbeardmore wrote:Eadie and his team mate from yesterday : both truly dreadful. Genuinely surprised that this is the best the goc could come up with.

Watching it now, I think O'Neill is doing an even worse job than they did.
I know I was somewhat tongue-in-cheek with my question about what happens if both appeals are successful, but I get the feeling that could well happen.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby IATthenRIAT on Wed 18 Sep 2019, 4:43 pm

Wish they would just arrange either a deal or if no deal cancel the whole thing, a no deal should not even be on the table - get a deal or cancel the whole thing - simples.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby farnboroughrob on Wed 18 Sep 2019, 5:45 pm

I just wish the whole thing had not gong so extremist. I am a remainer but accept the result, however there has to be a deal, no deal is not a option for me. Lets have a extension until January and have a GE. I will vote for any party that will deliver a soft brexit. I have always voted Tory for 30 years but may never again. Was thinking of voting Lib-dem but now uncomfortable with their stance. I disagree with almost all Labour policies, except Brexit. At last GE Labour was 10k behind the Tories and Lib-dems 10k behind them. So may have to hold my nose and vote Labour! After all GE is just for 5 years , a no deal Brexit could damage us for many years.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Zoom on Wed 18 Sep 2019, 7:07 pm

Tommy wrote:
Zoom wrote:
Neither the UK or the EU27 (individually or collectively) have a plan to avoid no deal.


Not strictly true. We had May’s deal. Which was pretty 3.6 roentgen, but still would have been Brexit


I should have stressed; a plan that will gain Parliament's approval. That's all by the by now as whatever "lipstick on a pig" re-working of May's deal that comes up between now and 31.10 will not get passed. The opposition parties are squarely lined up against whatever it may be. Nothing will change that in the next 6 weeks (of which much won't even be time in the HoC)

Whilst the EU27 would love to refuse our decision to leave on that date whatever I don't think Article 50 permits it.

I read some BS in the Excess that a new (probably unworkeable) UK backstop proposal has emerged but it doesn't appear to have been propagated so probably BS
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby pbeardmore on Thu 19 Sep 2019, 8:41 am

John Major's submission at 12.10 today, will be one of the highlights.

In contrast, considering it's the gov trying to overturn the Scottish Appeal Court decision, not one signed statement from anyone within gov to confirm that the prorogation was simply routine, not one single paragragh.

JRM loves being in the spotlight but, seemingly, not this time. Debating on 5 Live or Newsnight is OK but telling the truth in front of the Supreme Court? Not today, thank you.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby CJS on Thu 19 Sep 2019, 9:56 am

pbeardmore wrote:John Major's submission at 12.10 today, will be one of the highlights.

In contrast, considering it's the gov trying to overturn the Scottish Appeal Court decision, not one signed statement from anyone within gov to confirm that the prorogation was simply routine, not one single paragragh.

JRM loves being in the spotlight but, seemingly, not this time. Debating on 5 Live or Newsnight is OK but telling the truth in front of the Supreme Court? Not today, thank you.


All perfectly true, and it's quite clear to anyone with an ounce of common sense that the prorogation was done for the wrong reasons, and that BoJo has lied to anyone who would listen (including Her Majesty), and plenty who weren't.

However, will the Supreme Court have the guts to say so? I somehow doubt it, although I very much hope that they prove me wrong.
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby pbeardmore on Thu 19 Sep 2019, 9:58 am

Important to note that, perhaps, it takes more guts to overturn the Scots verdict. To give all future governments the legal power to shut down Parliament with no judicial scrutiny is surely are far bigger decision in the long term rather than confirming that BJ has told lies and recalling Parliament:

Interesting tweet below:

BBC Andrew Kerr

@BBCandrewkerr

Final day of Supreme Court hearings into the legality of Parliamentary suspension. A top source from the UK Government said: “we’re stuffed”. The other side remain optimistic - thinking it might go their way with 7/4 or 8/3 judge majority in their favour.
4
10:28 AM - Sep 19, 2019
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 19 Sep 2019, 11:01 am

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49753413
Confidential documents that "reflect the ideas the UK has put forward" on Brexit have been shared with the EU, the UK government says.

A statement said it will table "formal written solutions when we are ready" and not to an "artificial deadline".


So PMBJ doesn't believe in "artificial deadlines" then....... :whistle:
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Re: Is anybody happy with the Brexit white paper?

Postby pbeardmore on Thu 19 Sep 2019, 11:36 am

Going off on a tangent, it's nice to see how huge decisions are taken in a civilised, respectful and adult manor. We should be proud of how the Supreme Court is run...unlike the Commons which IMHO, is a disgrace.
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