British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

[Unknown74]

Hi guys & gals, could someone remind me where ZE360s new home is likely to be when and if this restoration project is successful?

[DirtyFokker]

At 5am on 2nd October 2019, XT597 left Bentwaters Park at the start of a 200 mile journey to a new home in the East Midlands. The aircraft has sat, unclaimed and unwanted, at the Suffolk site for seven years but has been on the BPAG’s wish list since 2017. We are therefore delighted that this wish has finally become a reality.

Brilliant news

[BPAG]

Hi guys & gals, could someone remind me where ZE360s new home is likely to be when and if this restoration project is successful?

Hello there. Thanks for your interest. ZE360 will be going to the same location as XT597. Announcement will be made when the site is ready.

[Stagger2]

Looking forward to the announcement on the site location. It will be great to visit the jets & see the scale of work required & how the donations are being used to save these two Phantoms.
Taking the update on XT597 & the distance from Bentwaters to its new home in the East Midlands of "200 miles", that's scarily close to Doncaster/Sheffield Airport!

[Unknown74]

Cheers for your response BPAG. Good luck with the project.

[HeyfordDave111]

Looking forward to the announcement on the site location. It will be great to visit the jets & see the scale of work required & how the donations are being used to save these two Phantoms.
Taking the update on XT597 & the distance from Bentwaters to its new home in the East Midlands of "200 miles", that's scarily close to Doncaster/Sheffield Airport!

Nooooooo, please god noooooo!
Dont do it lads, try and read up on progress there to see that its a pup, and put these beauties in Brunty where they can sit with the Bucs and Lightnings etc.

Doncaster Airport is not an option for anyone but pipe dreamers!

[BPAG]

Thank you all for your kind words, it is much appreciated.

Isn't DSRHA in Yorkshire?

[Stagger2]

Sooo! Cosford & Shawbury are also in the '200 mile' range, but they're not East Midlands or a private airfield either? Thought my off-the-wall comment might elicit more clues?
Important bits of your very welcome updates are 'safe' & 'private'. So long as the airframes are accessible in the long-run & there is additional Aviation interest there to justify travel/visits that'll do nicely.

[tc2324]

New information and photo`s have been added to the 74(F) Squadron Association restoration page for your ZE360 viewing pleasure including data recently received from the National Air and Space Museum.

http://74sqdn.tk/ze360-restoration-page/



https://flic.kr/p/2hrCQJX



If you haven`t already, please don`t forget to consider making a donation, details on the page.

Thanks in advance.

[BPAG]

An unusual and rare recent donation to the BPAG was an original McDonnell Douglas press kit from 1966 featuring shots from the rollout ceremony of the F4-K. Here's an a few examples. Many thanks to Andy Morris for passing these on to us.

[BPAG]

XV490 recently played host to authors Philip Keeble and Dave Gledhill at the launch of Per Ardua:Training An RAF Phantom Crew. This new book describes how Cold War aircrew assimilated the skills needed to fly and fight the F-4 Phantom and follows every stage of a process that was long, arduous and beset with obstacles. Available now from Fonthill Media. More details here- https://www.fonthill.media/products/per-ardua

[BPAG]

The second Manston work party had a busy time over the weekend- vegetation cut back from under and around the aircraft to facilitate access to underside of fuselage and wing areas, then inspection and assessment of both, including centre line tank. Progress made on tailcone area (despite corroded fasteners being a major headache) including disconnecting the brake parachute operating cable- a awkward job with limited access- and aileron removal started. Finally, all hinges treated with penetrating oil.

[tc2324]

https://flic.kr/p/2hLespJ

[tc2324]

Hi all,

With the kind permission of the UKAR admin team and suppport from the BPAG for allowing the use of their thread, I can now post some exciting news in that the 74(F) `Tiger` Squadron Association have launched a webstore selling 74 `Tiger` Squadron related merchandise.
All profits from the sales of any merchandise sold will go directly to the `Tiger360` fund in support of the restoration of our unique F-4J(UK) Phantom, ZE360.

New products and designs will be released next year and I can also confirm that some exciting artwork is being produced with a release date sometime within the first 6 months. (More on that in due course).

Click the following link to see whats on offer at present;

https://teespring.com/stores/74f-tiger360-webstore

https://flic.kr/p/2hNuEiNhttps://flic.kr/p/2hNyhtmhttps://flic.kr/p/2hNxhNR


And don`t forget to catch up on all ZE360 news on the Association website.

http://74sqdn.tk/ze360-restoration-page/

Thanks for looking and an advanced special thanks if you choose to buy something and therefore support the restoration effort.

[BPAG]

74 Squadron two-ship, during the 1980s. Our very own ZE360 in the rear. A good comparison of the original 'duck egg' blue colour scheme of the F-4J(UK) and the standard air defence grey.

[Skyflash]

Lovely shot, they look very different colours though - a mere trick of the light, or were there two different schemes knocking around?

[iainpeden]

Lovely shot, they look very different colours though - a mere trick of the light, or were there two different schemes knocking around?

When we bought the F-4Js they had been stored in the desert and had to undergo major rework and repaint. During transportation - slung under a helicopter, one slipped and ended up in the harbour - San Diego I think).

Apparently the undercoat was a strong yellow/green - I suspect zinc chromate. Then the Americans used FS paints meant to be equivalent to the UK colours - for example the undersides were actually light gull gray (FS36440) as opposed to the UK light aircraft grey; that combined with the light coating they received led to the blue Phantoms.

Three, I think, were serviced over here and resprayed in the "proper" colours. It's certainly going to make restoring ZE360 a darn sight easier because it would be the devil's own job to get the blue effect.

On the way over one was delayed and at that point the fin was painted black - initially still with a gray strip on the leading edge. It was with some amazement in the enthusiast community that it wasn't removed on arrival but the rest of 74 followed suit.
(Oh - have used gray and grey deliberately.)

edit: I have just noticed they both have British colours wing tanks. I have also just flicked quickly through a few books and most of the photos of the F-4J(UK) {never wasPhantom F.3} and most are either clean or just have the centreline tank.

[Skyflash]

Excellent and detailed response - thank you!

[tommc]

I have also just flicked quickly through a few books and most of the photos of the F-4J(UK) {never wasPhantom F.3} and most are either clean or just have the centreline tank.

It never was F-4J(UK) either.

It was just F-4J.

[iainpeden]

I have also just flicked quickly through a few books and most of the photos of the F-4J(UK) {never wasPhantom F.3} and most are either clean or just have the centreline tank.

It never was F-4J(UK) either.

It was just F-4J.

TC2324 in his post of 11/8/19 on behalf of the group refers to her as an F-4J(UK).

While I'd be happy to be proved wrong - maybe by seeing the a/c specific AM78 form but I think I'm correct. Knowledgeable experts, and I'm thinking of Richard Ward (Dick) and Peter R. Foster, use the F-4J (UK) designation.

The fact that Wiki refers to both F.3 and FGR.3 designations almost certainly means those were not used!

[tommc]

I have also just flicked quickly through a few books and most of the photos of the F-4J(UK) {never wasPhantom F.3} and most are either clean or just have the centreline tank.

It never was F-4J(UK) either.

It was just F-4J.

TC2324 in his post of 11/8/19 on behalf of the group refers to her as an F-4J(UK).

While I'd be happy to be proved wrong - maybe by seeing the a/c specific AM78 form but I think I'm correct. Knowledgeable experts, and I'm thinking of Richard Ward (Dick) and Peter R. Foster, use the F-4J (UK) designation.

The fact that Wiki refers to both F.3 and FGR.3 designations almost certainly means those were not used!

I have seen the official Military Aircraft Record listings, and they are all listed as "Phantom F-4J".

Here is the cover of the official Aircrew Manual





Here are some details of the associated APs





Here is one of the official RAF Movement Records Cards






For interest, here is the listing of US to UK number tie-ups, including Blocks




None of these use the term F-4J(UK). Not sure what other "proof" you may need.

[iainpeden]

Looks like I owe you a pint!

For those without access to an AM78, the one for XV470 designates her as an FGR2 in the “MK” box.

[Rich.B]

I have also just flicked quickly through a few books and most of the photos of the F-4J(UK) {never wasPhantom F.3} and most are either clean or just have the centreline tank.

It never was F-4J(UK) either.

It was just F-4J.

The term UK was not really spoken back in the years we had the Phantom. It a new word really . Back in the day it was still British or England.
We had British rail, British airways. British leyland etc etc. The term UK is pretty new really

[Unknown74]

Just out of interest and curiosity, can anyone tie up the 74 Sqdn Serials and tailcodes please for the F4J(UK)s as I am shortly due to start the Revell Model of the F4J as an RAF F4J(UK) and am interested to make it with tailcode T for Tiger(Surprise, Surprise) so wondered which serial it was please...…...

[iainpeden]

Just out of interest and curiosity, can anyone tie up the 74 Sqdn Serials and tailcodes please for the F4J(UK)s as I am shortly due to start the Revell Model of the F4J as an RAF F4J(UK) and am interested to make it with tailcode T for Tiger(Surprise, Surprise) so wondered which serial it was please...…...

ZE350/T but be careful because I seem to remember that one didn't have the intake mounted ECM fairings and I can't find which one. If you go on to Britmodeller somebody will know.