Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Discussions regarding historic aircraft, restoration and preservation etc
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NAM Updater
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Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by NAM Updater »

GertrudetheMerciless wrote:
Sat 10 Oct 2020, 10:46 am
.... Then you look at the maths. NAM_Updater may be able to give a better idea, but I doubt the revenue from a weekend of people paying a couple of quid to go on board will get anywhere near the nightly price (and the consequent income) as an Airbnb (depending on how he does it up, well north of £500 for a weekend, obviously potentially looking an serious money in the summer and school holidays).

It’s just not realistic to think the public putting a few coppers in a tin (if you are lucky you might get a note once in a while) make it a viable museum exhibit, considering its location and the costs of moving it.
Admission fees / donations whilst it was a museum exhibit would barely scratch the surface of any move costs!
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Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by GertrudetheMerciless »

Blue_2 wrote:
Sat 10 Oct 2020, 4:31 pm
GertrudetheMerciless wrote:
Sat 10 Oct 2020, 10:46 am
Andover wrote:
Sat 10 Oct 2020, 9:46 am
XB259 represents the breed, regardless of its personal history.

What if the owner kept it at Elvington, which is just up the road, boosting that museums income, and he charges people a small sum to go on board. Then in the future he uses that money, along with some from the museum for its upkeep? Just a thought.
That’s assuming there is space.
Which there isn't, unfortunately.

As alluded to earlier, the bare faced lies are the main reason so many offers of help have been withdrawn. 259 was supposed to be going to be restored as stock, as the centre piece of her own museum, possibly even under cover. Then, out comes the truth, which I am led to believe came as a very unpleasant surprise to the other major financial contributor, regarding his intentions with the aircraft.

Speaking for myself, I could forgive and understand the AirBnB plan
a) Had he been open about his intentions all along
b) If he didn't intend hacking areas of the aircraft like the cockpit around. It's not like there isn't plenty of space aboard aircraft to put facilities in, to my mind the very nearly complete cockpit should be restored to stock and not hacked into a drinks lounge or whatever it was he described it as.

As ever, if it looks too good to be true... :rolling_eyes:
I think your last point is very valid (as are your other ones too). My personal expectation is that it would be scrapped on site, with the costs to move it being prohibitive to almost anyone; whether it will move or won’t is another matter.

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Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by Mike »

wrote:"4 number Bristol Centaurus engines for sale. In a Blackburn Beverley aircraft, just purchased and engines not required. "
I guess that's the end of the Beverley as a viable airframe now 😥

https://www.barnstormers.com/classified ... gines.html

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Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by capercaillie »

Oh dear. Don't really need the wings either then, as nobody will be sleeping in those!
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Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by GertrudetheMerciless »

capercaillie wrote:
Thu 15 Oct 2020, 1:07 pm
Oh dear. Don't really need the wings either then, as nobody will be sleeping in those!
On the flip side, given it is no longer to be a “complete” exhibit, removing the (heavy) engines surely actually improves the long term structural prospects?

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Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by HeyfordDave111 »

ah well, thats flying it out now not possible :innocent:
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Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by GeeRam »

As soon as the B&B thing was made clear, it was obvious what its fate (as a complete aircraft) was going to be.

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Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by Ken Shabby »

Whilst I don’t believe anyone would claim the Beverley ranks as an iconic or important aircraft type in the history of British aviation, this is still the last surviving example and it’s sad to see its impending demise.

It’s sadder too that it’s happening with hardly a a whisper of opposition from the bodies that pose as the guardians of the nation’s aviation or wider heritage. Nothing from the DCMS, nothing from Aviation Heritage UK, nothing from the RAF Museum, nothing from the Heritage Memorial Fund.

I’m not offering any solutions here, I’m afraid, but when you read your histories and see how in the ‘40s, ‘50s and ‘60s so many historic aircraft, often the last of their type, were scrapped because no one had any appreciation of their uniqueness or historical importance, it’s sobering to think it’s still happening today.

This wouldn’t be happening in the United States.
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Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by RAF4EVER »

Ken Shabby wrote:
Fri 16 Oct 2020, 8:24 am
Whilst I don’t believe anyone would claim the Beverley ranks as an iconic or important aircraft type in the history of British aviation, this is still the last surviving example and it’s sad to see its impending demise.

It’s sadder too that it’s happening with hardly a a whisper of opposition from the bodies that pose as the guardians of the nation’s aviation or wider heritage. Nothing from the DCMS, nothing from Aviation Heritage UK, nothing from the RAF Museum, nothing from the Heritage Memorial Fund.

I’m not offering any solutions here, I’m afraid, but when you read your histories and see how in the ‘40s, ‘50s and ‘60s so many historic aircraft, often the last of their type, were scrapped because no one had any appreciation of their uniqueness or historical importance, it’s sobering to think it’s still happening today.

This wouldn’t be happening in the United States.
Money,or a lack of.

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Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by Domvickery »

Why would anyone that didnt want the aircraft have a say on it’s future
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Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by NAM Updater »

Ken Shabby wrote:
Fri 16 Oct 2020, 8:24 am
....It’s sadder too that it’s happening with hardly a a whisper of opposition from the bodies that pose as the guardians of the nation’s aviation or wider heritage. Nothing from the DCMS, nothing from Aviation Heritage UK, nothing from the RAF Museum, nothing from the Heritage Memorial Fund....
AHUK did notify member organisations back in January 2020. about the 'availability' of both this airframe and the 'free' Victor at RAF Marham.
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Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by GertrudetheMerciless »

RAF4EVER wrote:
Fri 16 Oct 2020, 9:38 am
Ken Shabby wrote:
Fri 16 Oct 2020, 8:24 am
Whilst I don’t believe anyone would claim the Beverley ranks as an iconic or important aircraft type in the history of British aviation, this is still the last surviving example and it’s sad to see its impending demise.

It’s sadder too that it’s happening with hardly a a whisper of opposition from the bodies that pose as the guardians of the nation’s aviation or wider heritage. Nothing from the DCMS, nothing from Aviation Heritage UK, nothing from the RAF Museum, nothing from the Heritage Memorial Fund.

I’m not offering any solutions here, I’m afraid, but when you read your histories and see how in the ‘40s, ‘50s and ‘60s so many historic aircraft, often the last of their type, were scrapped because no one had any appreciation of their uniqueness or historical importance, it’s sobering to think it’s still happening today.

This wouldn’t be happening in the United States.
Money,or a lack of.
Money, and space.

Space of course, is also known as money!

GeeRam
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Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by GeeRam »

Yep, there's a lot more space in the USA, plus they also have a climate in parts of the USA where long term open storage of aircraft doesn't present anything like the problems that we have on this little island off the coast of northern europe.....

The simple fact is, whether we like it or not, we can't save everything.......and examples of very large and not very well known types beyond the geeky aviation world will always present a problem.

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Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by capercaillie »

I'm sure I read something a while ago saying it would be the first post war British aircraft to go into production of which there would be no complete survivors if its broken up. I'm guessing this now counts if the engines are going separate ways.

It may have been military types, as there are no complete Hermes left as far as I'm aware.
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Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by GeeRam »

I suppose, if you mean military post WW2 design as well as production, it could well be.

No Brigands, Firebrands or Hornets have survived complete, but of course they were all designed during the war, and the first ones were built just before the end of the war, although squadron service was all post war for each type.

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Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by Hammy »

capercaillie wrote:
Fri 16 Oct 2020, 3:32 pm
It may have been military types, as there are no complete Hermes left as far as I'm aware.
Just the fuselage of G-ALDG at Duxford as part of the British Airliner Collection. I suppose it could theoretically be turned back into a complete Hermes if a Hastings was to be scrapped and its wings and empennage saved.

Before anyone tells me off, I'm not calling for a Hastings to be scrapped!
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Andover
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Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by Andover »

capercaillie wrote:
Fri 16 Oct 2020, 3:32 pm
I'm sure I read something a while ago saying it would be the first post war British aircraft to go into production of which there would be no complete survivors if its broken up. I'm guessing this now counts if the engines are going separate ways.

It may have been military types, as there are no complete Hermes left as far as I'm aware.
If just referring to a post-war (VE day) first flight, you could include the Avro Tudor airliner as an extinct type, but it was designed during the war.

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Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by DOUGHNUT »

Museums and organisations across the UK have had the money. It is just how they choose to spend it. The RAF Museum choose to spend money on recovering a German bomber aircraft from the seabed, the Heritage Lottery choose to spend money on a privately owned post war bomber. Each will have there opinion as to their current condition. Whilst the new owner my have good intentions and certainly a unique approach the end result will not be what many preservationists would have wanted.
Can I also add that what the owner wants to do may no be to the liking of the local authority. Planning and building control rules are there for a reason, turning an aircraft into a habitable home will not be easy. It is one thing to turn a bizjet into a caravan, or a helicopter into a garden shed, the same will not be true for the Beverley.

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Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by GertrudetheMerciless »

Although I’m not sure any local authority will be in a position to reject anything promoting visitors to their province! :)

Fair points regarding the RAFM and tin triangle. The former I suppose fits in with their policy and interest sphere (ie, consciously or not probably stil WW2 biased). That latter has made anyone ever trying to do something similar, very difficult I suspect.

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Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by GeeRam »

DOUGHNUT wrote:
Sat 17 Oct 2020, 11:05 am
Can I also add that what the owner wants to do may no be to the liking of the local authority. Planning and building control rules are there for a reason, turning an aircraft into a habitable home will not be easy. It is one thing to turn a bizjet into a caravan, or a helicopter into a garden shed, the same will not be true for the Beverley.
Indeed.....which is why I said, as soon as the B&B thing was mentioned, I knew its time as an aircraft was gone, as the amount of hacking about and modifications required for habitable planning purposes (and H&S) will mean there will be not much left of the Bev. It will still look like one to the casual observer, but thats about it.

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Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by Stagger2 »

I'm fairly sure the external Fire Escape stairs from the tail boom area down to the ground at the back will never be noticeable! :wink: :see_no_evil:

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andygolfer
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Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by andygolfer »

GeeRam wrote:
Sat 17 Oct 2020, 12:13 pm
DOUGHNUT wrote:
Sat 17 Oct 2020, 11:05 am
Can I also add that what the owner wants to do may no be to the liking of the local authority. Planning and building control rules are there for a reason, turning an aircraft into a habitable home will not be easy. It is one thing to turn a bizjet into a caravan, or a helicopter into a garden shed, the same will not be true for the Beverley.
on the other hand it's proposed location is a (former?) airfield so an aircraft wouldn't be totally out of place there and thus may be looked at sympathetically by the local planners.

Hopefully he is successful as anything which 'sort of' retains it as an airframe is better than a skip load of scrap metal. It's really in his interest to keep it looking like the aircraft that it is otherwise some of the appeal of it as a holiday retreat disappears.
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GertrudetheMerciless
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Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by GertrudetheMerciless »

Stagger2 wrote:
Sun 18 Oct 2020, 9:53 am
I'm fairly sure the external Fire Escape stairs from the tail boom area down to the ground at the back will never be noticeable! :wink: :see_no_evil:
Then again, do we see complaints about the staircases at museums like Sinsheim/Speyer to allow access to the roof mounted aeroplanes there?

Realistically, in place of scrapping, we’ll have a aeroplane that externally looks like a Beverley.

Better than it being a 10000 Tefal saucepans.

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Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by pbeardmore »

Trying to take a step back, its interesting that the one guy who dug deep and found some sort of way to keep the airframe "close" to original condition gets a critique from some whilst all the other parties (either those who would have scrapped or those in the preservation arena) seem to avoid such critique. IMHO the guy needs some slack.
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Re: Blackburn Beverley anyone?

Post by GertrudetheMerciless »

Well said!