COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

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iainpeden
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by iainpeden »

Andyph.
As you are obviously unaware, ItR has been banned - my guess is for 2 yellow cards - so can't be a target for comment.
I am going to add that, on another forum, he is a well respected and very skilled modeller who I still correspond with in that field.
Might also be worth all of us looking at the comments re. UKAR on Fighter Control.
(Mark Twain: There are lies, there are damn lies and then there are statistics)

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by rockfordstone »

iainpeden wrote:
Sun 21 Nov 2021, 9:45 am
Andyph.
As you are obviously unaware, ItR has been banned - my guess is for 2 yellow cards - so can't be a target for comment.
I am going to add that, on another forum, he is a well respected and very skilled modeller who I still correspond with in that field.
Might also be worth all of us looking at the comments re. UKAR on Fighter Control.
i don't pay much attention when people on one forum criticize another. i don't particularly find fighter control all that welcoming at times, hence why i spend my time here.
this forum is no better or worse than fighter control, it's just different.

on ItR. i'm sure he is a nice bloke, but some of the stuff he posted on here was nonsense which is presumably why he was banned

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Reds Rolling »

You know the Dutch are annoyed when they start burning their bicycles! :bike: :fire:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-59363256

Looks like even the most placid populations in Europe have had enough of restrictions from their Governments.

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Spiny Norman »

Reds Rolling wrote:
Sun 21 Nov 2021, 1:40 pm
You know the Dutch are annoyed when they start burning their bicycles! :bike: :fire:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-59363256

Looks like even the most placid populations in Europe have had enough of restrictions from their Governments.
Yes, the far-right are known for being placcid!
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Reds Rolling »

Spiny Norman wrote:
Sun 21 Nov 2021, 1:58 pm
Reds Rolling wrote:
Sun 21 Nov 2021, 1:40 pm
You know the Dutch are annoyed when they start burning their bicycles! :bike: :fire:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-59363256

Looks like even the most placid populations in Europe have had enough of restrictions from their Governments.
Yes, the far-right are known for being placcid!
Yes Norman, it's literally just Nazi's that are peed off with Government restrictions and protesting.

Image

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Spiny Norman
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Spiny Norman »

Very good article in the Observer about vaccinations and situation in hospitals.

Everyone on UKAR is far too sensible not to get fully vaccinated of course. (Unless they have strong medical reasons not to.) So this won't apply to them. They're not falling for any of the 5G George Soros Bill Gates it changes your DNA and makes you a lizard it was tested too soon nonsense.

ICU is full of the unvaccinated – my patience with them is wearing thin
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... aring-thin
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Tommy »

It’ll be interesting to see how Austria fares with compulsory vaccinations.

It’s a measure that I have absolutely no problem with (and I think it gives governments much more of a right to act harshly and discriminate against those who do not get the vaccine), but I don’t know the practicalities of a) how many people it’ll convince to get the jab, and b) how they enforce it.

Edit -

I do think, however, that governments should use this as a lesson to see just how far a significant (but not a majority) of the public are misinformed, toxified, even to the risk of their own lives, by online misinformation.

It’s been happening for years but the old farts in power still don’t understand what Facebook is, or they do, but are still unironically calling it “faceache” or something moronic that denigrates how serious the problem is.

We should have had a wake up call with the 2016 EU referendum and the presidential election in the same year that had such levels of misinformation that the term “fake news” became popular.

It’s clear that politicians “demanding Facebook does more” isn’t doing anything. Governments really need to tackle online extremism and misinformation.

Questions like billing the unvaccinated for hospital treatment are just putting plasters on an infected wound. The poison needs to be sucked out.

Beyond climate change, I think that online misinformation and radicalisation is one of the most pressing matters humanity faces in the coming years/decades.

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Spiny Norman »

There's no doubt the misinformation is a huge problem.

It is strange that many who utter "don't believe everything you read or see in the mainstream media" do seem to believe all that they read on the internet.

Much of the rubbish we hear about comes from bad actors with clear purposes in mind, whether it's funding their own income, their political ambitions or disrupting other nations' institutions and ways of life.
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by FarnboroJohn »

Spiny Norman wrote:
Sun 21 Nov 2021, 10:01 pm
There's no doubt the misinformation is a huge problem.

It is strange that many who utter "don't believe everything you read or see in the mainstream media" do seem to believe all that they read on the internet.

Much of the rubbish we hear about comes from bad actors with clear purposes in mind, whether it's funding their own income, their political ambitions or disrupting other nations' institutions and ways of life.
For a minute I thought you really meant "bad actors" - that is, actors who aren't any good - then I worked it out. However, I think ordinary bad actors grab onto any chance for the limelight by spouting any old cock about COVID as well.

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by FarnboroJohn »

Tommy wrote:
Sun 21 Nov 2021, 9:20 pm
I do think, however, that governments should use this as a lesson to see just how far a significant (but not a majority) of the public are misinformed, toxified, even to the risk of their own lives, by online misinformation.

We should have had a wake up call with the 2016 EU referendum and the presidential election in the same year that had such levels of misinformation that the term “fake news” became popular.

It’s clear that politicians “demanding Facebook does more” isn’t doing anything. Governments really need to tackle online extremism and misinformation.

Questions like billing the unvaccinated for hospital treatment are just putting plasters on an infected wound. The poison needs to be sucked out.

Beyond climate change, I think that online misinformation and radicalisation is one of the most pressing matters humanity faces in the coming years/decades.
Speaking of misinformation, the first considerable use of the phrase "fake news" was the Orange One labelling any news he didn't like (which was invariably accurate news) as fake. It has been used to describe misinformation more rarely, and thanks to he of the strange hair, often ironically.

Medical advice is against sucking poisons out (so suggesting it as a solution is misinformation/fake news?) One reason for this is that they are poisons.... :wink:

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Spiny Norman »

FarnboroJohn wrote:
Sun 21 Nov 2021, 10:35 pm
Spiny Norman wrote:
Sun 21 Nov 2021, 10:01 pm
There's no doubt the misinformation is a huge problem.

It is strange that many who utter "don't believe everything you read or see in the mainstream media" do seem to believe all that they read on the internet.

Much of the rubbish we hear about comes from bad actors with clear purposes in mind, whether it's funding their own income, their political ambitions or disrupting other nations' institutions and ways of life.
For a minute I thought you really meant "bad actors" - that is, actors who aren't any good - then I worked it out. However, I think ordinary bad actors grab onto any chance for the limelight by spouting any old cock about COVID as well.
I can't think for a minute who you might mean. Totally foxed me there... :wink:
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Tommy »

FarnboroJohn wrote:
Sun 21 Nov 2021, 10:41 pm
Tommy wrote:
Sun 21 Nov 2021, 9:20 pm
Beyond climate change, I think that online misinformation and radicalisation is one of the most pressing matters humanity faces in the coming years/decades.
Speaking of misinformation, the first considerable use of the phrase "fake news" was the Orange One labelling any news he didn't like (which was invariably accurate news) as fake.
You’ve added the term “considerable” in there, but the record needs minor correction. The term has been around for decades, but Zuckerberg brought it back into popular vernacular by using the phrase in 2016 to define the extent of misinformation on Facebook during the presidential election - the term is still used. Hilary Clinton then repeated it to describe online misinformation (such as “pizzagate”), and then days later Trump used it for the first time - wrongly, which is what got a lot of press, and continued using it since then. But Trump didn’t define the term, it’s been around for ages, and regardless of Trump using it incorrectly, it’s still the term used to describe elements of online misinformation.

I know what you mean, though, but actual (rather than Trumpian) fake news is what I was talking about.
FarnboroJohn wrote:
Sun 21 Nov 2021, 10:41 pm
Medical advice is against sucking poisons out (so suggesting it as a solution is misinformation/fake news?) One reason for this is that they are poisons.... :wink:
A good observation. It’s also not medically sound to “strap one’s bolycs on” (sorry mods) when talking about getting on a difficult or otherwise unsavoury task. It’s also slightly medically concerning to note that that one has the “heart of a lion” when one feels brave or courageous.

It was a metaphor, as you probably guessed.

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Zoom »

Germany’s health minister today issued a stark warning amid rapidly rising Covid cases, telling Germans that by the end of winter everyone will either have been “vaccinated, recovered or died”.

Jens Spahn urged Germans to urgently get vaccinated - or, if applicable, get booster doses - as the country saw more than 30,000 new coronavirus cases in the last 24 hours.

Hospitals warned that ICUs were almost full and that some patients were having to be transferred to far away clinics to be treated, reports the Associated Press.

Spahn told reporters in Berlin:

By the end of this winter pretty much everyone in Germany...will have been vaccinated, recovered or died.

Admitting that some saw his prediction as cynical, he added: “But it’s true. With the highly contagious delta variant this is very, very likely and that’s why we are recommending vaccination so urgently.”


At 40-60,000 cases a day? it's going to take longer than that. Germany has only 5 million cases compared to the UK's 9. How many unvaccinated are there in Germany? they have dispensed 117m doses

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Zoom »

The evolution of the Delta variant is offering a cautiously optimistic glimpse of how the next few months of the pandemic could unfold for the UK.

AY.4.2, an offshoot of the original Delta strain which now accounts for 15 per cent of new UK cases, appears to produce fewer symptoms in people than its parent.

Scientists at Imperial College London, as part of their ongoing React study into the prevalence of the virus in the UK, found that 66.7 per cent of AY.4.2 cases were symptomatic, compared to 76.4 per cent of its Delta parent, AY.4

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by FarnboroJohn »

Tommy wrote:
Mon 22 Nov 2021, 12:31 am
FarnboroJohn wrote:
Sun 21 Nov 2021, 10:41 pm
Tommy wrote:
Sun 21 Nov 2021, 9:20 pm
Beyond climate change, I think that online misinformation and radicalisation is one of the most pressing matters humanity faces in the coming years/decades.
Speaking of misinformation, the first considerable use of the phrase "fake news" was the Orange One labelling any news he didn't like (which was invariably accurate news) as fake.
You’ve added the term “considerable” in there, but the record needs minor correction. The term has been around for decades, but Zuckerberg brought it back into popular vernacular by using the phrase in 2016 to define the extent of misinformation on Facebook during the presidential election - the term is still used. Hilary Clinton then repeated it to describe online misinformation (such as “pizzagate”), and then days later Trump used it for the first time - wrongly, which is what got a lot of press, and continued using it since then. But Trump didn’t define the term, it’s been around for ages, and regardless of Trump using it incorrectly, it’s still the term used to describe elements of online misinformation.

I know what you mean, though, but actual (rather than Trumpian) fake news is what I was talking about.
FarnboroJohn wrote:
Sun 21 Nov 2021, 10:41 pm
Medical advice is against sucking poisons out (so suggesting it as a solution is misinformation/fake news?) One reason for this is that they are poisons.... :wink:
A good observation. It’s also not medically sound to “strap one’s bolycs on” (sorry mods) when talking about getting on a difficult or otherwise unsavoury task. It’s also slightly medically concerning to note that that one has the “heart of a lion” when one feels brave or courageous.

It was a metaphor, as you probably guessed.
Oh yes, but any chance to lighten the mood.... apropos your last comment I recall a quoted graffiti example that postulated that "Richard the Lionheart is alive and well and asking Christian Barnard for his money back"!

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by boff180 »

The Telegraph (paywall) are running a story this morning that one of the reasons behind the UK fourth wave being manifestly different to what is happening in the EU is the AZ jab.

They’re saying there is now evidence that the protection given by the AZ jab is remaining at a higher level in your system than the other jabs available for longer.

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by iainpeden »

Apparently it’s that the resulting T-cells are more embedded from the AZ vaccine and therefore more protective than the antibodies which decline from all the vaccines. (That’s a non scientist explanation)
There was also a suggestion on R5 yesterday that the UK reopening in early Summer had allowed the population to develop better protection over the warm months that didn’t happen on t’other side of the Channel.
(Mark Twain: There are lies, there are damn lies and then there are statistics)

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Tommy »



(I didn’t even know it was guidance to take two tests per week)

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Zoom »

The AZ claim has been disputed by the very countries who shunned it!
It's inevitable that different vaccines will have different efficacy as they interact with the human immune system. I think AZ and P/BnT are the same basic idea just using different methods of delivery to alert the white cells to the spike protein.

In the early days the vaccines were seen as a way of eradicating the virus from the general population which has now been demonstrated is not what they are doing.

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Reds Rolling »

Tommy wrote:
Sun 21 Nov 2021, 9:20 pm
I do think, however, that governments should use this as a lesson to see just how far a significant (but not a majority) of the public are misinformed, toxified, even to the risk of their own lives, by online misinformation.
I think a lot of people go online because they distrust what the Government and main stream media are telling them in the first place. Once you've lost that trust it's incredibly difficult to get it back.

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by boff180 »

Tommy wrote:
Wed 24 Nov 2021, 9:58 am
(I didn’t even know it was guidance to take two tests per week)
I didn't know it was national guidance, I thought it was just local guidance issued by my local authority.

Still think the new guidance is a cop out to avoid bringing masks back.

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Tommy »

Reds Rolling wrote:
Wed 24 Nov 2021, 10:05 am
Tommy wrote:
Sun 21 Nov 2021, 9:20 pm
I do think, however, that governments should use this as a lesson to see just how far a significant (but not a majority) of the public are misinformed, toxified, even to the risk of their own lives, by online misinformation.
I think a lot of people go online because they distrust what the Government and main stream media are telling them in the first place. Once you've lost that trust it's incredibly difficult to get it back.
Absolutely right, and they hold a lot of the blame for historically playing pinball with versions of the “truth”, especially at the moment.

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Tommy »

Zoom wrote:
Wed 24 Nov 2021, 10:00 am
In the early days the vaccines were seen as a way of eradicating the virus from the general population which has now been demonstrated is not what they are doing.
It’s weird to me, because I never thought they were going to do that. Nor did I think they’d do anything to reduce transmission.

I remember saying back in January that the Government should have come out and said exactly what the vaccine would do, would not do, and what we still need to be vigilant of.

Lots of my extended family & friends believe that being double-jabbed stops transmission. As in, you either don’t catch it, or if you do catch it, you don’t spread it.

Obvs that’s only anecdotal, and I only mention it as an example, rather than the prevailing attitude, but I find it odd how the vaccine is so misconstrued by some members of the public (not their fault, I add).

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Zoom »

taking Israel as the World model for vaccination it was soon apparent that vaccination was cutting hospitalisations and deaths, perhaps they didn't keep testing those who had been vaccinated (do the UK?). As Israel opened up cases started spreading again.

Right now governments around the World are throwing pretty much anything that will work at it, whether that be 2 vaccines, a booster or locking down the unvaccinated (or even everyone). The hope seems to be that Delta will continue to spread in a controlled fashion with the inevitable toll in hospitalisations and deaths which vaccines (and the upcoming new drugs) will minimise but not prevent. And watching to see how it mutates. The Delta plus mutation is heading in the direction everyone wants to go but Delta is not really being challenged to mutate as it's happily spreading and nobody knows how long it will take for Covid to become just another harmless seasonal virus like the common cold.

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Zoom »

Tommy wrote:
Wed 24 Nov 2021, 11:53 am
Lots of my extended family & friends believe that being double-jabbed stops transmission. As in, you either don’t catch it, or if you do catch it, you don’t spread it.
If spreading it involves coughing and sneezing rather than just being close to another person then ipso facto if you are less symptomatic you are less likely to spread it.

*big If

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