COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

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Pen Pusher
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Pen Pusher »

Zoom wrote:
Thu 25 Nov 2021, 12:04 am
when did you last see an employee in a shop restaurant or pub wearing a mask?
Yesterday in the co-op, Poundland, Costa Coffee, WH Smiths.
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FarnboroJohn
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by FarnboroJohn »

Tommy wrote:
Wed 24 Nov 2021, 9:42 pm
FarnboroJohn wrote:
Wed 24 Nov 2021, 8:03 pm
Tommy wrote:
Wed 24 Nov 2021, 7:50 pm
iainpeden wrote:
Wed 24 Nov 2021, 7:26 pm

So while I think anybody preaching against vaccination should be lobbed into the nearest oubliette and left to rot, anti—vax feeling isn’t just a product of the internet age and can be down to more than some teenager spouting behind closed doors.
I think this is true, but it’s also impossible to deny that anti-vax sentiment (and general disinformation) has also seen significant growth in the internet age.

I’m quite interested to see what happens with compulsory vaccinations. I’m, personally, fully onboard with that. And it would do away with the need for vaccine passports and debates over whether the unvaccinated should pay for their NHS treatment.

You make vaccinations compulsory, punishable by summary fine if refused, and just you watch how fast some of these noble internet preachers “reluctantly” get jabbed.
How big is the fine going to be? Assuming someone pays it and continues not to be jabbed, you can't try them again, right? Bolt shot, achievement nil.
Yes you can. Of course you can!

The same as anyone who regularly breaks the speed limit has to pay individual tickets. If they keep not getting jabbed, then more severe punishments await, such as an attachment to earnings (court takes a cut of your pay before it even arrives in your account), and if serious enough, continued breaches result in contempt of court, and eventually incarceration.

That’s the benefit of drafting laws, the government can do what it likes (within certain limits) in terms of sentencing. So the fine can be anything we want it to be. In such a hypothetical scenario, I’d say a reasonable guesstimate of appropriate summary fines can be between £100 - £250 for first offence.
As you make clear in your sentence (see what I did there?) the speeding tickets are for recognisably separate offences. If you haven't been jabbed and continue not to be, then there is only one offence, for which you have paid your debt to society.

Obviously a corrupt majority government can do what it likes rewriting rules but lets not mess about, that's double jeopardy.

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Tommy »

FarnboroJohn wrote:
Thu 25 Nov 2021, 7:08 am
Tommy wrote:
Wed 24 Nov 2021, 9:42 pm
FarnboroJohn wrote:
Wed 24 Nov 2021, 8:03 pm
Tommy wrote:
Wed 24 Nov 2021, 7:50 pm
iainpeden wrote:
Wed 24 Nov 2021, 7:26 pm

So while I think anybody preaching against vaccination should be lobbed into the nearest oubliette and left to rot, anti—vax feeling isn’t just a product of the internet age and can be down to more than some teenager spouting behind closed doors.
I think this is true, but it’s also impossible to deny that anti-vax sentiment (and general disinformation) has also seen significant growth in the internet age.

I’m quite interested to see what happens with compulsory vaccinations. I’m, personally, fully onboard with that. And it would do away with the need for vaccine passports and debates over whether the unvaccinated should pay for their NHS treatment.

You make vaccinations compulsory, punishable by summary fine if refused, and just you watch how fast some of these noble internet preachers “reluctantly” get jabbed.
How big is the fine going to be? Assuming someone pays it and continues not to be jabbed, you can't try them again, right? Bolt shot, achievement nil.
Yes you can. Of course you can!

The same as anyone who regularly breaks the speed limit has to pay individual tickets. If they keep not getting jabbed, then more severe punishments await, such as an attachment to earnings (court takes a cut of your pay before it even arrives in your account), and if serious enough, continued breaches result in contempt of court, and eventually incarceration.

That’s the benefit of drafting laws, the government can do what it likes (within certain limits) in terms of sentencing. So the fine can be anything we want it to be. In such a hypothetical scenario, I’d say a reasonable guesstimate of appropriate summary fines can be between £100 - £250 for first offence.
As you make clear in your sentence (see what I did there?) the speeding tickets are for recognisably separate offences. If you haven't been jabbed and continue not to be, then there is only one offence, for which you have paid your debt to society.
No, that’s not correct, failing to get the jab would be an ongoing, escalating, offence.

And using the speeding tickets example, it’s not double jeopardy because escalating speeding tickets escalate the punishment:

Whilst four or more speeding tickets may well be individual offences, you eventually accrue enough points to lose your driving license (and other offences can be lumped in, but I don’t want to go down that rabbit hole). If one continues to drive without a license, then more severe punishments await etc. That’s not double jeopardy, that’s a collection of punishments that escalate.

Your argument, which is wrong, that a the fine is paid and so the debt is paid to society and that’s all done and dusted, is not how the justice system works. Otherwise many people, particularly wealthy people, would always be speeding everywhere, they would just pay the £100/£150 fine, and crack on. They’d just regard it as simply a cost of travel.

If someone is not jabbed, punishable by a fine, which they pay, and they continue to refuse vaccination, they get punished again, and again.

But, as I said before, if vaccines were made to be mandatory, just watch how quickly loudmouth social media warriors quietly get jabbed, if they haven’t already.

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Gt5500 »

Currently on day 10 of isolation having had 2 positive LFD tests followed by a failed PCR and then a positive PCR.
Here's the thing, at first my only symptoms were a runny nose, sore throat and sneezing, I genuinely believed it was just a cold. I was doing daily LFD tests because my partners works as a teacher and had 11 cases and I'd been to the O2 with a mate who also tested positve. The cold symptoms started on the Sunday but it was not until the Thurs I tested positive by LFD and not until Thurs night that I lost my sense of smell (the only typical covid symptom I had).
What this all means is, I was potentially infectious since Friday but didn't show positive until the following Thurs (and so continued to work).
People are suggesting that the vaccine reduces symptoms so may slow the spread through reduced coughing/sneezing. My own experience and the zoe study seems to show that the symptoms now are most likely to be cold like, i.e. lots of sneezing, runny nose and coughing, doesn't bode well for reducing transmission...

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Spiny Norman »

That is interesting Gt. I've heard very similar and know quite a few who have had negative lateral flow and PCR tests but have had coughs, sneezes, sore throats and felt rotten for days. Was it "just" a cold or was it undetected covid? I've heard of doctors saying to these, oh it's probably covid you've had but it's not shown up on the tests. There's many children going to school with these colds and we wonder why infection rates are so high...

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Tommy »

Stuff like this will, once again, not be dealt with seriously enough until by luck it either fizzles out, or becomes overwhelming and any action is too late.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... uth-africa
Scientists in South Africa are studying a recently identified new coronavirus variant that is a cause for serious concern, stoking fears the country may face a potentially severe fourth wave that could spread internationally.

The new discovery, called B.1.1529 until a Greek letter is assigned, carries an unusually large number of mutations and is “clearly very different” from previous incarnations, Tulio de Oliveira, a bio-informatics professor who runs gene-sequencing institutions at two South African universities, said at a briefing on Thursday.
Every hour between now and action the government is procrastinating.

An immediate travel ban with South Africa (and a full and generous insurance policy to repay/refund/support anyone’s disrupted plans and costs) is necessary.

I think we know by now that procrastination, dilly-dallying, and limp-wrested “wait and see” policies are doomed to fail.

That’s just domestic. I think that South Africa and Botswana need to be pressured into having an immediate lockdown, and the world needs to coordinate how it handles outbreaks, be that temporary isolation of the country, or whatever.

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by gamecock »

That is interesting Gt. I've heard very similar and know quite a few who have had negative lateral flow and PCR tests but have had coughs, sneezes, sore throats and felt rotten for days. Was it "just" a cold or was it undetected covid? I've heard of doctors saying to these, oh it's probably covid you've had but it's not shown up on the tests. There's many children going to school with these colds and we wonder why infection rates are so high...
I’m 5 days into a severe head cold after being in a packed train, and an Edinburgh pub for about 8 hours on Saturday. Lateral flow test a couple of days ago was negative. However, I had none of the 3 major symptoms (temperature/cough/taste) so I’m pretty sure it’s just a cold.

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by vandal »

gamecock wrote:
Thu 25 Nov 2021, 4:09 pm
That is interesting Gt. I've heard very similar and know quite a few who have had negative lateral flow and PCR tests but have had coughs, sneezes, sore throats and felt rotten for days. Was it "just" a cold or was it undetected covid? I've heard of doctors saying to these, oh it's probably covid you've had but it's not shown up on the tests. There's many children going to school with these colds and we wonder why infection rates are so high...
I’m 5 days into a severe head cold after being in a packed train, and an Edinburgh pub for about 8 hours on Saturday. Lateral flow test a couple of days ago was negative. However, I had none of the 3 major symptoms (temperature/cough/taste) so I’m pretty sure it’s just a cold.
Wasn't in a packed pub or on a train but myself & a number of people I know have suffered similar symptoms to the Cold, one was a Chest Infection. For almost 2 weeks my head had been either very sore across the forehead, similar to a migraine, couldn't look at the tv without it hurting either my eyes or head, had a runny nose one day, blocked the next, was a little breathless, even had really achy legs so I thought I was in line for the Flu. Everyone else similar had a negative Covid test. I Just put it down to that because we (mostly) managed to avoid winter bugs last year, this year even the Common Cold is just a bit harder because of not suffering it last year.

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

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Travellers arriving in England from several southern African countries will have to quarantine amid warnings over a new coronavirus variant.

UK Health Secretary Sajid Javid said from 12:00 GMT on Friday six countries would be added to the red list, with flights being temporarily banned.

One expert described the variant, known as B.1.1.529, as "the worst one we've seen so far", and there is concern it has the potential to evade immunity.

No cases have been confirmed in the UK.

All flights from South Africa, Namibia, Zimbabwe, Botswana, Lesotho and Eswatini are being suspended.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59424269

Virgin flight touched down from South Africa early this morning and there are apparently 2 BA flights from SA due to arrive before mid-day.
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by Tommy »

I’m glad that, for once, they’ve acted quickly and decisively.

(It also shows that it can be done - and always could have been done with the likes of India or wherever else).

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

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It is good they’ve acted faster this time. Sadly though, we’ve already learnt that any action like this just delays the inevitable. It has already been seen in Hong Kong and I’m sure it’s already in plenty of other places yet to be identified.

I just hope to God it’s numerous mutations don’t make it any worse a disease or much more transmissible or vaccine dodging because I don’t think I can take another two years or more like the last two. Just as you’re settling down to live with this virus and the changes it’s made to how we live, you wake up to find out it’s quite possibly got a lot worse. A never ending nightmare.

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

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harkins wrote:
Fri 26 Nov 2021, 8:20 am
I just hope to God it’s numerous mutations don’t make it any worse a disease or much more transmissible or vaccine dodging because I don’t think I can take another two years or more like the last two. Just as you’re settling down to live with this virus and the changes it’s made to how we live, you wake up to find out it’s quite possibly got a lot worse. A never ending nightmare.
Pandemics don't just go away. They can go on and on and on.
The longest-enduring pandemic disease outbreak is the Seventh Cholera Pandemic, which originated in Indonesia and began to spread widely in 1961. As of 2020, some 59 years later, this pandemic is still ongoing and infects an estimated 3-5 million people annually.
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

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That’s a pretty sobering thing to read. And as terrible as that is, it doesn’t seem to have made the news much in the last 30 odd years that I’ve noticed and not restricted global travel. This nu variant sounds ominously like it could well put the brakes on the gradual and staggering efforts to reopen the world whilst we wait and hope for new vaccines to be developed and delivered.

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

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The new variant will only put the brakes on if everyone else acts slowly and ineffectively to stop the spread. Swift, decisive action is the name of the game.

If everyone had taken swift action against India, and India itself had taken swifter action, the Delta variant may never have spread out. If China had locked down Wuhan much earlier, the world might well be a very different place.

As it is, it’s commendable, for once, our government has acted decisively. They need to ensure that those flights caught in limbo have people properly quarantining.

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

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I agree with you in the main Tom, and I think swift action is vital. However, I also believe that once a new variant that will trump existing variants exists, then there is no stopping it. You can slow it down, but it will escape and it will spread. Delta is dominant worldwide, even in places as locked down as Singapore and New Zealand.

And whilst we are going to stop flights from SA, has everyone else? Or can South Africans come here via Istanbul or Schipol?

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

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This also raises the question of mandatory vaccination. SA has just 24% of its population vaccinated. Between the West stockpiling vaccines and cultural issues in many countries, there are plenty of large heavily populated countries which are ideal for mutations to develop and spread. Covid 19 could go on to smash the 59 year record of the seventh cholera pandemic and surely kill a heck of a lot more people.

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

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Well, Delta is the dominant variant precisely because everyone didn’t act swiftly. That’s the point.

I don’t know, I haven’t looked into it, but I hope that all routes are stopped (and quarantine obliged). I also likewise hope that other countries (its a mutual reliance) also act swiftly and decisively.

The virus being “unstoppable” is, I think, untrue. I think you’re focusing on the variants that have got out (because of delay/procrastination/underestimation). There are plenty of variants that have been acted on swiftly, and they have fallen away. This time last year we were speaking about a Spanish, a (different) South African, and a Brazilian variant.

Had Delta been as well-policed as those ones, I believe that it would have become another variant whence forgotten about.

It’s easy to a) doom-monger because we’ve been so let down by those we entrusted to protect us, and b) to be unable to imagine a different world than one that has happened.

Both are unproductive and probably wrong. The fact that we’ve acted swiftly against the SA variant, shows that we could have done so against the Indian, or even the first wave of it.

Just because things have happened the way they have happened does not mean that they were inevitable.

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by NAM Updater »

Some fascinating thoughts on BBC Radio Nottingham this morning whilst driving to the museum, about the new variant!

Worth checking the Twitter feed of this Nottingham University professor, who specialises on emerging viruses!

https://twitter.com/JonathanKBall
Last edited by NAM Updater on Fri 26 Nov 2021, 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

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A couple that used to work at my place, posted some photos on Facebook a couple of days ago from Cape Town “Starting out South African Adventure.”

I thought then it was a bit early to start going on far flung holidays again whilst the pandemic is still in full swing in many countries.

It’s probably not turning out to be the adventure they were expecting!

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by andygolfer »

FGR2 wrote:
Fri 26 Nov 2021, 11:13 am
A couple that used to work at my place, posted some photos on Facebook a couple of days ago from Cape Town “Starting out South African Adventure.”

I thought then it was a bit early to start going on far flung holidays again whilst the pandemic is still in full swing in many countries.

It’s probably not turning out to be the adventure they were expecting!
I would think anywhere far flung is a risk at present, I did Italy in September to see my daughter and family and thought that was more than far enough.

Does COVID stand for Cape Of Very Isolated December? maybe.

being serious I do hope they don't get stranded.
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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by SEMAE »

Easy to act swiftly to ban flights from some African countries. It does not affect the UK economy that much but now that the new variant has been discovered in Belgium with one infected person and maybe has now spread, will HM Government act so swiftly to ban flights from Europe?

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Re: COVID-19: Your Thoughts and it's effects on you.

Post by SEMAE »

Easy to act swiftly to ban flights from some African countries. It does not affect the UK economy that much but now that the new variant has been discovered in Belgium with one infected person and maybe has now spread, will HM Government act so swiftly to ban flights from Europe

https://www.euronews.com/2021/11/26/eur ... in-belgium

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