War?

Chat about anything not specifically aviation related
Post Reply
User avatar
Tommy
UKAR Staff
Posts: 7462
Joined: Mon 14 Mar 2011, 11:39 pm

Re: War?

Post by Tommy »



Another huge row-back from Russia’s rhetoric. Last week they were talking about nuclear weapons re Finland.

I don’t want to look for hope where there isn’t any, but the crumbs of Russia’s withdrawal of this mess appear to be starting to show.

Zoom
Posts: 630
Joined: Thu 11 Aug 2016, 11:18 pm

Re: War?

Post by Zoom »

The life imprisonment of the Russian soldier who killed an unarmed Ukranian civilian (with several dozen more cases to follow) will hopefully make Russian forces think twice in their tactics. Russia is not taking over the country and freeing them (and neither is Ukraine doing deals with convicted criminals) any time soon...

FarnboroJohn
Posts: 2673
Joined: Tue 28 Aug 2012, 6:57 pm

Re: War?

Post by FarnboroJohn »

Zoom wrote:
Mon 23 May 2022, 6:27 pm
The life imprisonment of the Russian soldier who killed an unarmed Ukranian civilian (with several dozen more cases to follow) will hopefully make Russian forces think twice in their tactics. Russia is not taking over the country and freeing them (and neither is Ukraine doing deals with convicted criminals) any time soon...
Not just that. This is also a message from Ukraine to the world that despite the obvious temptation to apply capital punishment they haven't: that just may make Ukrainian POW a bit safer in Russian hands. A good (and civilised) gambit.

Zoom
Posts: 630
Joined: Thu 11 Aug 2016, 11:18 pm

Re: War?

Post by Zoom »

FWIW capital punishment is now banned in the EU member states and also thankfully still in the UK so a very good standpoint for Ukraine (even though it may be several decades before they join)

User avatar
Tommy
UKAR Staff
Posts: 7462
Joined: Mon 14 Mar 2011, 11:39 pm

Re: War?

Post by Tommy »


Zoom
Posts: 630
Joined: Thu 11 Aug 2016, 11:18 pm

Re: War?

Post by Zoom »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-61570444

This is where the initial euphoria of stalling the Russian invasion meets harsh reality. With all the weapons the rest of the World can supply it still relies on a vastly outnumbered and ever decreasing Ukrainian defence to use them.

I wonder if they would be better to let the Russians have what they want (Donbas and their land corridor to Crimea) then pull back and wait for sanctions to bite?

User avatar
Tommy
UKAR Staff
Posts: 7462
Joined: Mon 14 Mar 2011, 11:39 pm

Re: War?

Post by Tommy »

I don’t think the Ukrainians are in the business of “letting Russia have what they want”.

Ukraine and the Western world pursued that line of foreign policy in 2014 with Crimea, and eight years on look what has happened.

Also, Russia are losing a hell of a lot, too. There is only a finite amount of Kamovs and Sukhois, even in their inventory.

Shipping in ancient T-62s doesn’t shout much about Russia’s success:


Zoom
Posts: 630
Joined: Thu 11 Aug 2016, 11:18 pm

Re: War?

Post by Zoom »

but the West didn't sanction Russia over Crimea (or if they did not to the extent they are now)

I'm not suggesting a ceasefire that leaves Donbas and the corridor to Crimea, just maybe let them make whatever a mess of those regions they wish (the Ukraine government has already advised its citizens to get the FOOT) and keep them from seeking further gains in Ukraine. Although Russia will probably still fire missiles all over the place. And increase the sanctions to throttle Russia's income and starve their war machine.

Zoom
Posts: 630
Joined: Thu 11 Aug 2016, 11:18 pm

Re: War?

Post by Zoom »

fair play to Clive Myrie for sitting through the interview with that BE of a Russian ambassador to the UK; I would have walked off after just one of his prefabricated and extremely sick making lies

They are now the Evil Empire that Raygun described

Zoom
Posts: 630
Joined: Thu 11 Aug 2016, 11:18 pm

Re: War?

Post by Zoom »

The EU need to step back from this; seriously

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61878929

User avatar
Mooshie1956
Posts: 1597
Joined: Wed 01 Jun 2011, 11:46 am
Location: Manchester

Re: War?

Post by Mooshie1956 »

Zoom wrote:
Tue 21 Jun 2022, 5:59 pm
The EU need to step back from this; seriously

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61878929
So what you're saying is. Lets give in to Russia and let them have what they want.
Sanctions are there for a reason and to start bowing down and breaking those sanction means you've lost.
My Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/mooshie1956/
Panny G80 12-60 Lens
Panny 100-400 Lens
Olympus 60 Macro Lens

Zoom
Posts: 630
Joined: Thu 11 Aug 2016, 11:18 pm

Re: War?

Post by Zoom »

Mooshie1956 wrote:
Tue 21 Jun 2022, 6:13 pm
Zoom wrote:
Tue 21 Jun 2022, 5:59 pm
The EU need to step back from this; seriously

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61878929
So what you're saying is. Lets give in to Russia and let them have what they want.
Sanctions are there for a reason and to start bowing down and breaking those sanction means you've lost.
no; I'm saying the EU need to stop playing politics and risking WW3 when they do not have any military right or legal jurisdiction to prevent Russia moving goods through an established corridor that happens to go through an EU (and also NATO) member state. It's extremely delicate and they should step back.

the EU is already "bowing down" by still buying stuff from Russia

User avatar
Mooshie1956
Posts: 1597
Joined: Wed 01 Jun 2011, 11:46 am
Location: Manchester

Re: War?

Post by Mooshie1956 »

Zoom wrote:
Tue 21 Jun 2022, 6:25 pm
Mooshie1956 wrote:
Tue 21 Jun 2022, 6:13 pm
Zoom wrote:
Tue 21 Jun 2022, 5:59 pm
The EU need to step back from this; seriously

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61878929
So what you're saying is. Lets give in to Russia and let them have what they want.
Sanctions are there for a reason and to start bowing down and breaking those sanction means you've lost.
no; I'm saying the EU need to stop playing politics and risking WW3 when they do not have any military right or legal jurisdiction to prevent Russia moving goods through an established corridor that happens to go through an EU (and also NATO) member state. It's extremely delicate and they should step back.

the EU is already "bowing down" by still buying stuff from Russia
Sorry then, I misread it as you wanted the EU to step away from the sanctions imposed.
My Flickr https://www.flickr.com/photos/mooshie1956/
Panny G80 12-60 Lens
Panny 100-400 Lens
Olympus 60 Macro Lens

User avatar
Tommy
UKAR Staff
Posts: 7462
Joined: Mon 14 Mar 2011, 11:39 pm

Re: War?

Post by Tommy »

To be fair, the Russians threatened Sweden and Finland with “consequences” including nuclear threats and all of that fizzled away, too. Just as things like that always do when it comes from a bully.

What are they going to do, seriously attack a NATO member because of a railway?

I endorse the measure, tbh. If Russia have a problem with sanctions, then the solution is a very easy one - withdraw troops from Ukraine and make repatriations for the innocent people murdered and the property damaged.

Ken Shabby
Posts: 645
Joined: Mon 29 Sep 2008, 12:23 pm
Location: Romford, Essex
Contact:

Re: War?

Post by Ken Shabby »

Tommy wrote:
Tue 21 Jun 2022, 8:58 pm
To be fair, the Russians threatened Sweden and Finland with “consequences” including nuclear threats and all of that fizzled away, too. Just as things like that always do when it comes from a bully.

What are they going to do, seriously attack a NATO member because of a railway?

I endorse the measure, tbh. If Russia have a problem with sanctions, then the solution is a very easy one - withdraw troops from Ukraine and make repatriations for the innocent people murdered and the property damaged.
Or they can take stuff to Kaliningrad by boat, or fly it in. It will be inconvenient, yes, but only minor compared to the ‘inconvenience’ they’re causing in Ukraine.
Ken

User avatar
Tommy
UKAR Staff
Posts: 7462
Joined: Mon 14 Mar 2011, 11:39 pm

Re: War?

Post by Tommy »

Absolutely. It’s not even the only route in/out of the enclave.

Or, if it’s really such a pain in the ass, they could give it up to Lithuania, given they’re so flexible on sovereignty these days.

Russians keep making these threats because they think they’ll make a difference. If the EU concedes and backs down, then Russia will just keep making the threats elsewhere. Where next, Estonia give up some territory? Georgia allowing Moscow influence in government? Finland taking orders from Russia as to what military equipment it procured and operates?

The military protection of NATO and the economic and cultural might have the EU is precisely why those Baltic states joined both organisations in the first place, and, looking at Russia’s behaviour, they’re justified in doing so.

Imagine if Estonia wasn’t a NATO/EU member - Putin would have rolled his tanks across the border years ago.

GeeRam
Posts: 251
Joined: Sat 13 Jun 2020, 3:54 pm

Re: War?

Post by GeeRam »

Russia will make things up as they go along to suit their own agenda......its just propaganda for home consumption, to keep the masses inline and the Russian political masters in power and wealth.

I think most countries and Govt's have now realised that pretty much everything they now say is a lie, and they wouldn't know the truth if it smacked them around the head.

Zoom
Posts: 630
Joined: Thu 11 Aug 2016, 11:18 pm

Re: War?

Post by Zoom »

I still think the EU need to be careful about escalating this. They are blocking (albeit a small proportion) goods from passing through a member state from one part of Russia to another. Russia is saying (and remember most Russians have no other source of news) that Kalliningrad is being blockaded which is BS.

The EU have double standards, on the one hand they say Russia cannot move sanctioned goods through their member states' land but also say it's OK for them to sell them gas and oil and pump it through those same member states. They also have no experience of diplomacy on matters of this kind and why should they? (and I'm not trying to grind any political axe I'm a staunch Remoaner)

Not sure if Lithuania buy either from Russia but I wouldn't be surprised if they start to restrict it in retaliation.

User avatar
Tommy
UKAR Staff
Posts: 7462
Joined: Mon 14 Mar 2011, 11:39 pm

Re: War?

Post by Tommy »



Big symbolic defeat (and probably a decent strategic defeat, too)

User avatar
ericbee123
Posts: 2263
Joined: Sun 31 Aug 2008, 9:13 am
Location: Blackpool

Re: War?

Post by ericbee123 »

To be fair that looks a pretty bleak indefensible patch of rock.

If it had been possible to reinforce it and build air raid shelters, concrete bunkers, etc then the Ukrainians/Soviets/all those Black Sea Empires over the centuries would have made that a fortress.

Heck. Even steelworks and chemical plants are like fortresses in that area !!

If you’re on that island and somebody comes in range of dropping bombs, firings missiles or cannons at you - you are in for a really bad day.
Disclaimer-I have spell/grammar checked this post, it may still contain mistakes that might cause offence.

User avatar
Tommy
UKAR Staff
Posts: 7462
Joined: Mon 14 Mar 2011, 11:39 pm

Re: War?

Post by Tommy »

Just as all bullies do when you respond with strength:



They shrug and try and find someone else to bully.

Post Reply