RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

[Tommy]

I find this a little disappointing to be honest, does anyone know the reasoning behind this?

Was there not that weird quirk that practice displays were fine, but validations could only take place on a sterile/non-public airfield?

Perhaps I’m misremembering.

[CJS]

I find this a little disappointing to be honest, does anyone know the reasoning behind this?

Was there not that weird quirk that practice displays were fine, but validations could only take place on a sterile/non-public airfield?

Perhaps I’m misremembering.

I guess the point of validating them is to ensure they are safe. Once validated, they're OK to perform in front of people, but it would rather defeat the object of validations if you could do then in front of the public wouldn't it?

[jasonT1981]

With the flying starting at 9.45am now, I am looking at missing the start on Sunday as I don't get into Swindon until 9:10am as the first train to Swindon is 8:30am and usually only getting to Fairford for 10am.


Anyone any experience getting the National Express bus from Bristol to Swindon? it will get me into Swindon by 8am, meaning I will get to RIAT on time. Can you pay on board or is it pre-book only?

[CJS]

With the flying starting at 9.45am now, I am looking at missing the start on Sunday as I don't get into Swindon until 9:10am as the first train to Swindon is 8:30am and usually only getting to Fairford for 10am.


Anyone any experience getting the National Express bus from Bristol to Swindon? it will get me into Swindon by 8am, meaning I will get to RIAT on time. Can you pay on board or is it pre-book only?

Last time I did it you could pay on board but obviously only if there are spaces left so it's a risk!

Edit: looks like there are no local buses, but megabus run one that arrives Swindon at 8.30 (although I don't know exactly where in Swindon) for just over £5.

https://uk.megabus.com/journey-planner/ ... irSeated=0

I'd offer to take you (I'm just outside Bristol) but with my little one in toe I don't want to commit to anyone relying on me to get them there, sorry!

[Bodz156]

I find this a little disappointing to be honest, does anyone know the reasoning behind this?

Was there not that weird quirk that practice displays were fine, but validations could only take place on a sterile/non-public airfield?

Perhaps I’m misremembering.

The USAF F-16 did a validation display on the Thursday evening in 2019, when the Romanian MiGs ran out of fuel after waiting down the western end. Or at least that's what the movements sheet describes it as....unless those rules have altered, validations were OK with people in P&V but not on the showground (FRIAT stand etc) last time

[boff180]

I find this a little disappointing to be honest, does anyone know the reasoning behind this?

Areas need to be set up for show days and staff need time to rest before the very long days of show days. However under the regs (I can't quote which ones right now), practice displays are fine whilst the public are on the showground but validation displays are not.

Therefore over the past 5-6 shows, time has been given at the end of one of the arrivals days to allow for any validation displays to take place. After the public has left the airfield. RIAT do try to minimise this by validating as many displays as possible in advance.

[Bradley97]

First time coming back to the show since 2012. I remember in 2012 we left our chairs where we wanted to sit for flying display while we walked around the static planes. Is this something that people still do now so we can get good viewing spot plus see all the static planes?

Also where the best location to sit? We want to sit as close to fence line so the child we are taking can see the planes going down the runway. Any help would be great

[iainpeden]

The security aspect of leaving chairs and other bits and pieces about is questionable.
The runway is long enough to get a good view anywhere but to be. Away from the crowds and grandstands the west,green, end is usually quiet and gives s good view especially if they land at the east and finish taxi run at the west.

[G-CVIX]

I find this a little disappointing to be honest, does anyone know the reasoning behind this?

Areas need to be set up for show days and staff need time to rest before the very long days of show days. However under the regs (I can't quote which ones right now), practice displays are fine whilst the public are on the showground but validation displays are not.

Therefore over the past 5-6 shows, time has been given at the end of one of the arrivals days to allow for any validation displays to take place. After the public has left the airfield. RIAT do try to minimise this by validating as many displays as possible in advance.

Thank you, & thanks Tommy. I'm not so worried about validations, but more about arrivals in that time.

I didn't think that P&V counted as being on the airfield? Has this changed or am I just wrong?

There also hasn't been an issue (as far as I know) with setting up show areas while P&V is open in the past? I would hope that staff would be rota'd to cover the day and provide adequate breaks regardless, or is under-staffing an issue this year?

I'm not trying to be difficult. I have a routine and I find it hard if that routine is disrupted. Understanding why helps me to process it. You all know how much I admire and appreciate the work that goes into the show.

I just really hope that no good arrivals are scheduled after 1730!

[Tommy]

Scratching my head and trying to remember, but I’m quite sure FRIAT closes at 5:30 but P&V stays open for longer on Thursday. Im pretty sure I’ve been in P&Vs after 5:30, but it’s been a while so perhaps I’m wrong.

If there are arrivals late, the. There arrivals late. The team won’t have scheduled them deliberately outside hours unless absolutely necessary. Don’t worry, it’ll come alright, I think.

[bishbashbosh]

can i ask please does anyone know when the showground map on the website is going to be released as i think for previous shows it had been released by now?

It's available on the RIAT website now. Maps available for Friday and Saturday/Sunday.

Looks like the western loop is back.

Please let the A-4 be parked there.

[G-CVIX]

Scratching my head and trying to remember, but I’m quite sure FRIAT closes at 5:30 but P&V stays open for longer on Thursday. Im pretty sure I’ve been in P&Vs after 5:30, but it’s been a while so perhaps I’m wrong.

If there are arrivals late, the. There arrivals late. The team won’t have scheduled them deliberately outside hours unless absolutely necessary. Don’t worry, it’ll come alright, I think.

Oh I know that, I'm just a worrier!!

I'm usually in P&V until the last aircraft that I want to catch is due. I think they used to let us stay until either 1900 or 1930, I can't remember. I know that the FRIAT enclosure closes earlier, it's one of the reasons I always do P&V on the Thursday rather than the enclosure.

I get worried the closer I get to trips, etc, so stress about all sorts. I'm just as stressed about it being 09 arrivals!!

Hopefully the FRIAT paperwork will have opening times clarity re: P&V.

Cheers

Edit:

Okay so the FRIAT members area lists it as 0730-1930, however whether this is up to date remains to be seen.

[Luke28]

Scratching my head and trying to remember, but I’m quite sure FRIAT closes at 5:30 but P&V stays open for longer on Thursday. Im pretty sure I’ve been in P&Vs after 5:30, but it’s been a while so perhaps I’m wrong.

If there are arrivals late, the. There arrivals late. The team won’t have scheduled them deliberately outside hours unless absolutely necessary. Don’t worry, it’ll come alright, I think.

Looking back through my 2019 photos on Flickr and my last photo from East on the Thursday was taken at 6.42pm (Romanian C-27), I'm not sure if Flickr time is UK or an hour ahead though.

[RIAT Air Ops]

P&V west at green entrance is still open Friday (think you need a full show ticket though to gain access). If you want to catch arrivals and flying that day….

This is very interesting Andy, is this officially confirmed? I can see no mention of it on the website, and can't remember it ever being open in previous years, but given the Swedes are due in Friday this is the place I and I'm sure many others would want to be for their arrival.

The footprint of Park and View West is part of the public showground on Friday, Saturday & Sunday. So if you enter via the Green Customer Entry Point, you're already in that area. (It will not be called Park and View, it is part of the show). On Saturday and Sunday, you'll be able to walk there from anywhere on the showground. On Friday, if you're parked in another car park, you'll need to use the shuttle bus which takes customers to/from the Green CEP to get down there, as the Green Zone is closed to visitors whilst we park up the last of the static display aircraft ready for the weekend show days. (You'll of course need a Friday ticket to enter).

RIAT ATC states that their operational airfield hours are 0900-1900 this year yet P&V Weds/Thurs opening times are listed as 0730-1730 rather that the usual 1930.
There's the potential there to miss 3 hours of arrivals (if you're doing both days) and in the past, some of the most sought after aircraft have come in late in the day.

Park and View will be open until 1900 on Wednesday and Thursday, with a last entry at 1730. I will ask my colleagues to amend the website listing.

Looks like the western loop is back.

Indeed it is, please make sure you make the effort to walk down there and enjoy the static rarities on offer in the South West Loop!


On other topics, it's worth pointing out there are subtle regulatory differences between a validation, practice and rehearsal which dictates how and when we perform them.

Cheers,
Peter

[G-CVIX]

Thank you for your response Peter - I'm relieved and apologetic to know I was making a fuss about nothing!

[Bodz156]

[/quote]
Park and View will be open until 1900 on Wednesday and Thursday, with a last entry at 1730. I will ask my colleagues to amend the website listing.

Cheers,
Peter
[/quote]

Thanks for the clarification, good to know

Assumed it must be a last entry time, as even though it's been 3 years I recall being in P&V later than 17.30 in the past waiting for certain aircraft to arrive.

[coanda]

P&V west at green entrance is still open Friday (think you need a full show ticket though to gain access). If you want to catch arrivals and flying that day….

This is very interesting Andy, is this officially confirmed? I can see no mention of it on the website, and can't remember it ever being open in previous years, but given the Swedes are due in Friday this is the place I and I'm sure many others would want to be for their arrival.

The footprint of Park and View West is part of the public showground on Friday, Saturday & Sunday. So if you enter via the Green Customer Entry Point, you're already in that area. (It will not be called Park and View, it is part of the show). On Saturday and Sunday, you'll be able to walk there from anywhere on the showground. On Friday, if you're parked in another car park, you'll need to use the shuttle bus which takes customers to/from the Green CEP to get down there, as the Green Zone is closed to visitors whilst we park up the last of the static display aircraft ready for the weekend show days. (You'll of course need a Friday ticket to enter).

RIAT ATC states that their operational airfield hours are 0900-1900 this year yet P&V Weds/Thurs opening times are listed as 0730-1730 rather that the usual 1930.
There's the potential there to miss 3 hours of arrivals (if you're doing both days) and in the past, some of the most sought after aircraft have come in late in the day.

Park and View will be open until 1900 on Wednesday and Thursday, with a last entry at 1730. I will ask my colleagues to amend the website listing.

Looks like the western loop is back.

Indeed it is, please make sure you make the effort to walk down there and enjoy the static rarities on offer in the South West Loop!


On other topics, it's worth pointing out there are subtle regulatory differences between a validation, practice and rehearsal which dictates how and when we perform them.

Cheers,
Peter

Just to be mega clear - if I'm to leave the FRIAT enclosure I would need to do so with enough time to get down to park and view before 1730 rather than just be able to get kicked off the field at 1730 and then wander down to p&v?

I recall from the last time I did Mach 3 that there will be time to do that, with the guys doing walking trains across the taxiways a while before airfield closure so it's no problem, just good to know for planning the days.

[UKTopgun]

The point CVIX makes about getting stressed as we approach RIAT is relatable for me, I find the event SO huge and there is so much to see in just one show day (for me at least, I don't do the 5 day thing) that it always feels a bit overwhelming when the gate opens.

Anyone who loves aircraft will know the feeling. You want to see every static aeroplane and every display too. It's sometimes more stress than enjoyable if you know what I mean.
Be interesting if anyone else feels this or perhaps just silly old me?!!!

[coanda]

I've been going to airshows since I was in a buggy/stroller, and think I remember my little bro being in a buggy at IATs but I still get a sense of apprehension now, at 40. Don't think it ever goes away, and I kinda hope it doesn't.

My dad used to take 3 of us kids on his own at one point, so I can't quite imagine how he must've felt looking after the 3 of us (me as eldest running off to see what was up the line a bit) carrying a cooler box, chair, camera gear and trying to take pictures too, for the entirety of the static before trying to get a decent spot at the fence (in later years we'd claim a spot on the fence first even when you could park on the airfield).

[Seamus]

P&V west at green entrance is still open Friday (think you need a full show ticket though to gain access). If you want to catch arrivals and flying that day….

This is very interesting Andy, is this officially confirmed? I can see no mention of it on the website, and can't remember it ever being open in previous years, but given the Swedes are due in Friday this is the place I and I'm sure many others would want to be for their arrival.

The footprint of Park and View West is part of the public showground on Friday, Saturday & Sunday. So if you enter via the Green Customer Entry Point, you're already in that area. (It will not be called Park and View, it is part of the show). On Saturday and Sunday, you'll be able to walk there from anywhere on the showground. On Friday, if you're parked in another car park, you'll need to use the shuttle bus which takes customers to/from the Green CEP to get down there, as the Green Zone is closed to visitors whilst we park up the last of the static display aircraft ready for the weekend show days. (You'll of course need a Friday ticket to enter

Cheers,
Peter

Brilliant, Peter, thank you for clarifying that, much appreciated

[Andyph]

Jets displaying..

RAF Typhoon demo
RAF F35B flyby
Italian Typhoon
Swiss F18
Spanish F18
Austrian Air power Demo x2 Typhoons
Greek F16
Belgian F16
Hungarian Gripen
Swedish Gripen

Think that is a pretty impressive line up of jet power to go on

So far 4 frontline fast jets types displaying and one type making a flypast.

How does that compare against RIAT's in the last decade?

[snicker01]

Jets displaying..

RAF Typhoon demo
RAF F35B flyby
Italian Typhoon
Swiss F18
Spanish F18
Austrian Air power Demo x2 Typhoons
Greek F16
Belgian F16
Hungarian Gripen
Swedish Gripen

Think that is a pretty impressive line up of jet power to go on

So far 4 frontline fast jets types displaying and one type making a flypast.

How does that compare against RIAT's in the last decade?

2019 there must have been around 7 as we had the types that you mentioned plus the mig-21, flanker and spanish harriers.

2017 was a great year for front line fighters. Again we had the same types as this year plus f-22, rafale, mirage 2000, flanker, tornado. So thats around 9 types off the top of my head.

No doubt we are light in fighter types this year. Most previous years the US and French have provided good support in this department. Not sure whats changed in that department?

Thats not to take away from what looks to be a fabulous show. In my opinion a poor RIAT is still a great show (caveat: except the ones dogged by bad weather)!

[Spotty_Jag]

I believe the general consensus is that RIAT 2012 was the last universally acclaimed RIAT? That had no USAF solo displays in the flying display, and didn't suffer for it, so perhaps we've just been spoilt in recent years?

[AARDVARK]

Jets displaying..

RAF Typhoon demo
RAF F35B flyby
Italian Typhoon
Swiss F18
Spanish F18
Austrian Air power Demo x2 Typhoons
Greek F16
Belgian F16
Hungarian Gripen
Swedish Gripen

Think that is a pretty impressive line up of jet power to go on

So far 4 frontline fast jets types displaying and one type making a flypast.

How does that compare against RIAT's in the last decade?

2019 there must have been around 7 as we had the types that you mentioned plus the mig-21, flanker and spanish harriers.

2017 was a great year for front line fighters. Again we had the same types as this year plus f-22, rafale, mirage 2000, flanker, tornado. So thats around 9 types off the top of my head.

No doubt we are light in fighter types this year. Most previous years the US and French have provided good support in this department. Not sure whats changed in that department?

Thats not to take away from what looks to be a fabulous show. In my opinion a poor RIAT is still a great show (caveat: except the ones dogged by bad weather)!

Jet Displaying is a loose term i use for aircraft that are participating in the flying display , be it flyby or demo.

Sure we are missing some significant players, no USAF teams, no French jets and eastern European ones (understandably).

[Andyph]

Jets displaying..

RAF Typhoon demo
RAF F35B flyby
Italian Typhoon
Swiss F18
Spanish F18
Austrian Air power Demo x2 Typhoons
Greek F16
Belgian F16
Hungarian Gripen
Swedish Gripen

Think that is a pretty impressive line up of jet power to go on

So far 4 frontline fast jets types displaying and one type making a flypast.

How does that compare against RIAT's in the last decade?

2019 there must have been around 7 as we had the types that you mentioned plus the mig-21, flanker and spanish harriers.

2017 was a great year for front line fighters. Again we had the same types as this year plus f-22, rafale, mirage 2000, flanker, tornado. So thats around 9 types off the top of my head.

No doubt we are light in fighter types this year. Most previous years the US and French have provided good support in this department. Not sure whats changed in that department?

Thats not to take away from what looks to be a fabulous show. In my opinion a poor RIAT is still a great show (caveat: except the ones dogged by bad weather)!

Sure we are missing some significant players, no USAF teams, no French jets and eastern European ones (understandably).

Quite - I do wonder if it is an all time low for RIAT though... I thought it was much better than that till I saw your list

and I think the show is a bit Highlightless

-Not that its adds to the types tally but what happened to the Czech Gripen? Cancelled/ Not confirmed yet / Nobody knows?