FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion
Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion
I hope Wendy is prepared for the amount of emails she is going to walk into tomorrow
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion
Such a shame - RIAT has worked so hard this year - you can tell, all to put something like this out at the 11th hour and take a big dent in the goodwill they’ve worked to build.
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- HeyfordDave111
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion
Agree Tommy, The show was looking 'Me'h' to me a month back but it's looking superb now.
But then we get this rise. I can do Zeltweg cheaper.
But then we get this rise. I can do Zeltweg cheaper.
Got to love Russianhardware
Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion
Maybe we need a back to basics.
1983. A roped off area on the centre line, iirc dedicated loos but no dedicated catering-so we packed sandwiches, no marquee so we packed wet weather gear, no seating (sat on the cagoules), no multitude of volunteers needing uniforms, meals and accommodation, no fleet of hired top end cars, no partners of guests tottering around in high heels and minuscule dresses in driving rain.
And 27 Phantoms.
1983. A roped off area on the centre line, iirc dedicated loos but no dedicated catering-so we packed sandwiches, no marquee so we packed wet weather gear, no seating (sat on the cagoules), no multitude of volunteers needing uniforms, meals and accommodation, no fleet of hired top end cars, no partners of guests tottering around in high heels and minuscule dresses in driving rain.
And 27 Phantoms.
(Mark Twain: There are lies, there are damn lies and then there are statistics)
Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion
But can you imagine the mood in the marquee on Friday morning if it come out then?
And what happens when D sells out quickly.....or is that a silly question?
(Mark Twain: There are lies, there are damn lies and then there are statistics)
Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion
Compared to many on here no doubt I'm quite new to FRIAT (this is only year 6 for me), but this makes me wonder if it will be my final year.
I can't see a description of the Bands? Is Band A for example rows A-C etc?
70% going for Mach3 would explain why my usual row E/F Mach 2 has dropped down to row H this year (not that it's a problem).
Is another aspect of this streamlining the admin for DBH? No DD to worry about, everyone on the same package (allowing for the mysterious "Bands") etc. Plus a lot more money.
I can't see a description of the Bands? Is Band A for example rows A-C etc?
70% going for Mach3 would explain why my usual row E/F Mach 2 has dropped down to row H this year (not that it's a problem).
Is another aspect of this streamlining the admin for DBH? No DD to worry about, everyone on the same package (allowing for the mysterious "Bands") etc. Plus a lot more money.
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion
Exactly - I can get why it’s now, but I can’t get why it wasn’t raised at the FRIAT Forum. That’s, surely, exactly the sort of thing to be discussed at a FRIAT Forum.
There’s no suggestion of anything extra, either, to at least soften the blow. The Thursday flightline walk, a dusk photoshoot, maybe, lunch with aircrews, live-side end-of-day photobus, automatic entry into a free “follow me car ride” on arrivals, free catering in the FRIAT stand…
I mean, look, it may be that the general public are subject to a rude awakening when tickets go on sale for 2023 and they’re all £90 per day per ticket or something - if it’s proportionate increase across the board - then it will be hideous, but if that’s really the costs of running the show, then I can understand it - but right now with this and the supplemental we paid earlier in the year, it just feels like FRIATers keep getting fleeced financially with increased costs above and beyond the rate the general punters are - which is not the way to treat your most loyal “friends”.
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion
It wasn’t raised at the forum because the powers that be didn’t raise it!
There was dissatisfaction raised about the £30 increase and the explanation was essentially if it had not been imposed the show was dead.
We are now into the realms of things they didn’t want publishing but cancellation for 2020 was survivable, 2021 was as near as dammit the end and it was made clear that the permanent cancellation was very close to happening.
Peter and co, sorry if I’m now breaking confidences but if the feedback had been published as promised I wouldn’t need to.
There was dissatisfaction raised about the £30 increase and the explanation was essentially if it had not been imposed the show was dead.
We are now into the realms of things they didn’t want publishing but cancellation for 2020 was survivable, 2021 was as near as dammit the end and it was made clear that the permanent cancellation was very close to happening.
Peter and co, sorry if I’m now breaking confidences but if the feedback had been published as promised I wouldn’t need to.
Last edited by iainpeden on Thu 30 Jun 2022, 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
(Mark Twain: There are lies, there are damn lies and then there are statistics)
Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion
You can aways vote with your wallet and say no,FRIAT is not mandatory.
[Dons tinhat and retreats to nuclear bunker ]
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- capercaillie
- Posts: 9372
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion
No it isn't but do you want loyal reliable customers or fleeters who try it once, moan about what they get and publicise all over social media for potential future punters?
Even as a new concept, its put out with no reason for the well above inflation increase, the lack of options for payment for those who may not be able to afford the lump sum so immediately and no incentive as to what you get for more money. Its a shafting big time for many.
Will be interesting when a RIAT staff member decides to post a reply on the thread with some justification. Maybe they won't?
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- UKAR Staff
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion
Can we just remind everyone that RIAT ar ops & ATC wouldnt have been involved in this decision & dont deserve to be bombarded here or on social media
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion
Totally agree, and we’ll said. Peter has posted on twitter much the same, can only feel for them after such a tremendous effort for this years show, which will be great, let’s not forget .Domvickery wrote: ↑Thu 30 Jun 2022, 9:55 pmCan we just remind everyone that RIAT ar ops & ATC wouldnt have been involved in this decision & dont deserve to be bombarded here or on social media
Would have copied his tweet, but too late to work that one out!
Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion
100%, and it doesn’t detract from a very sterling job they’ve done this year and the gratefulness we have for their communications/efforts.Domvickery wrote: ↑Thu 30 Jun 2022, 9:55 pmCan we just remind everyone that RIAT ar ops & ATC wouldnt have been involved in this decision & dont deserve to be bombarded here or on social media
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- PeteFenwick
- Posts: 318
- Joined: Thu 12 Nov 2009, 2:27 pm
Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion
I have to say this is an appalling price increase.
As background I have been a FRIAT member from 1996-2018, 22 years. This year I am just doing 2 arrivals and a show day. As a comparison I am going to Oshkosh (4th trip) helped with family in USA but the cost is $167 for 7 days of fantastic aviation.
The FRIAT prices for next year are just taking the Mickey.
As background I have been a FRIAT member from 1996-2018, 22 years. This year I am just doing 2 arrivals and a show day. As a comparison I am going to Oshkosh (4th trip) helped with family in USA but the cost is $167 for 7 days of fantastic aviation.
The FRIAT prices for next year are just taking the Mickey.
- rockfordstone
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion
Haven't had time to fully absorb the email yet, but this year is my first FRIAT. From the look of those prices it may be my last
Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion
My question would be, if they are using the lack of demand for the shorter packages as a reason for the price increases then why are they all sold out??
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion
Not a FRIATer, never have been, probably never will be at this rate...but I expect we'll all get hammered with price increases again across the board for next year's event. Question I would ask is, are they not putting themselves under pressure regards participation with hikes like this? Or do these packages sell out before even the Swiss AF have confirmed?
I just think, at some point people whose wallets are already creaking under the strain of just living in the UK will start to ask themselves "Is it worth it?" for an outdoor event heavily effected, in terms of quality of the day, by the unpredictable British weather...Will more leave it until the last minute to buy tickets based on weather? Not a reliable business model for me....
But then again, RIAT is pretty much the only large military show in the UK now with VL uncertain....maybe they think people will still pay for the only chance to see these aircraft once a year...
I just think, at some point people whose wallets are already creaking under the strain of just living in the UK will start to ask themselves "Is it worth it?" for an outdoor event heavily effected, in terms of quality of the day, by the unpredictable British weather...Will more leave it until the last minute to buy tickets based on weather? Not a reliable business model for me....
But then again, RIAT is pretty much the only large military show in the UK now with VL uncertain....maybe they think people will still pay for the only chance to see these aircraft once a year...
- jasonT1981
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion
If they offered a shuttlebus on Wed, Thurs and Monday I'd be more inclined to buy as it does work out cheaper than what I paid for this year, however paying for 6 days as non optional with only access to 3 of them will more than likely see me stay in public grandstand and pimms.
- Pat Murphy
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion
That sentence sums it up really. I was a FRIAT member for a number of years, usually as part of a week's holiday in the area, so not an insignificant cost anyway, but work changed and got in the way for a while and I dropped it and went to P&V for the arrivals and departures days, with the odd show day here and there. This year's Wednesday to Friday has cost me around £80. I don't get the advantage of the Grandstand, so it's a bunfight at times, I wonder if there'll be any Social Distancing when the A4 flies in...Elbows out lads....but I digress.
I'm no RIAT fanboy and I'm wearing my hard hat typing this, but maybe we're all wrong here. Maybe P&V is too cheap?? is there too great a disparity between that and FRIAT rates? Next years P&V rates are not available yet, so we'll see. Are we totally unrealistic about the costs of staging this event?
I think some balance and perspective regarding those costs, is in order here. All businesses have seen massive cost increases over the last two years, my own is not exempt in that. Energy, fuel, wages, accommodation, food, to name a few. Some of these rises far exceed the headline Inflation figure and if these rates are what it costs to cover them and make a return, then they have obviously taken a market decision and worked that figure out given the investment put into running FRIAT. They are a charity yes, but charities can only make donations to their cause, if their business activities make a profit.
As for the timing, on the same day as the E4 announcement? Well, there's never a good time to announce bad news, some cynics may accuse them of attempting to "bury bad news", but when would you have preferred to know? I haven't seen the details regarding the dropping of DD payments in instalments, others may be able to confirm this, but given everyone is feeling the pinch, it seems shortsighted to drop this option.
Will it stop me attending next year? Well I refer to Bodz contribution above. If I want to continue with this hobby, then choices are increasingly limited, so the answer to that is probably no, it won't stop me. We all have our own financial situation and each will make their own judgement about affordability. I'm guessing the "cheap" (used advisedly) seats will sell out quickly.
Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion
I've asked the following questions but I'm not expecting a quick reply.
Which rows are in Band A & B?
Will you still be accepting seat requests within those bands?
How much are the above bands with a Gold loyalty bonus applied?
Are we still able to pay by direct debit?
The big sticking point for me is the last one. Are they really expecting people to blindly pay £300+ in one go in the middle of Summer, with fuel, bills, energy prices etc the highest they've ever been? I can't think that will be a popular option.
Kempsford is bordering on unaffordable too, and will no doubt go up in price again for next year. I've seen people say that they can't justify it to the wife/family - well I don't know if I can justify it to myself anymore.
Let me clarify, I find this line-up is one of the most exciting for a long, long time and I had no doubt that I was going to renew my FRIAT on the Friday as I always do, however until I get more clarification, I just don't see that being viable.
In addition I've also got some gripes about this years FRIAT experience, for which, given what has happened in the past few years, I quietly accepted. For the money they are asking now, however, they would need to do better:
My seat request wasn't taken into consideration (I asked for row B, got row A - I know most people want A but I prefer to be seated!)
FRIAT forum information never came through.
The information about the timings, etc, and the grandstand, hasn't yet come through - it would usually come with our passes. Is there something negative in there that they want to tell us as close to the show as possible?
I have no doubt that Wendy does an amazing job, and probably has an awful lot to do, so I'm not critical of her or any individuals, but I would hope that the organisation is better prepared for 2023.
I hope the feedback is read and considered. If the prices rises are unavoidable, they could lessen the blow in many ways by addressing at least some of the issues raised in this thread.
EDIT:
A bit of googling says that the loyalty discounts are £10, £20, and £30, so a band B (most likely what I'd go for) would be £320, up from £250 this year - that's a mind boggling increase.
Surely this is going to push day tickets and P&V up by an astronomical amount too?!!
Which rows are in Band A & B?
Will you still be accepting seat requests within those bands?
How much are the above bands with a Gold loyalty bonus applied?
Are we still able to pay by direct debit?
The big sticking point for me is the last one. Are they really expecting people to blindly pay £300+ in one go in the middle of Summer, with fuel, bills, energy prices etc the highest they've ever been? I can't think that will be a popular option.
Kempsford is bordering on unaffordable too, and will no doubt go up in price again for next year. I've seen people say that they can't justify it to the wife/family - well I don't know if I can justify it to myself anymore.
Let me clarify, I find this line-up is one of the most exciting for a long, long time and I had no doubt that I was going to renew my FRIAT on the Friday as I always do, however until I get more clarification, I just don't see that being viable.
I quite agree with this.Tommy wrote: ↑Thu 30 Jun 2022, 8:10 pmThe principle thing that made FRIAT still worth it was the grandstand on Mondays.
Everything else (showday grandstand, members area etc) was convenient but not necessarily a dealbreaker.
Now the background is cluttered by the new hangars, I’m sorely tempted to just pay separately for P&V each day, maybe do a day inside, and the rest at Totterdown or elsewhere.
...and I quite agree with this, too.WG655 wrote: ↑Thu 30 Jun 2022, 7:57 pmNo evening walkabout, no FRIAT newsletters, no visits, less time in the grandstand, minimal comms etc etc and now this - collectively, the package has certainly been degraded in recent years and now a significant price hike (with removal of direct debit) is a bitter taste in the mouth especially so close to the event. Having traditionally rewarded loyalty and commitment, it seems seating allocation will now just be rewarding those in a position to quickly and widely open their wallets with no consideration for circumstances that may prevent others doing that.
In addition I've also got some gripes about this years FRIAT experience, for which, given what has happened in the past few years, I quietly accepted. For the money they are asking now, however, they would need to do better:
My seat request wasn't taken into consideration (I asked for row B, got row A - I know most people want A but I prefer to be seated!)
FRIAT forum information never came through.
The information about the timings, etc, and the grandstand, hasn't yet come through - it would usually come with our passes. Is there something negative in there that they want to tell us as close to the show as possible?
I have no doubt that Wendy does an amazing job, and probably has an awful lot to do, so I'm not critical of her or any individuals, but I would hope that the organisation is better prepared for 2023.
I hope the feedback is read and considered. If the prices rises are unavoidable, they could lessen the blow in many ways by addressing at least some of the issues raised in this thread.
EDIT:
A bit of googling says that the loyalty discounts are £10, £20, and £30, so a band B (most likely what I'd go for) would be £320, up from £250 this year - that's a mind boggling increase.
Surely this is going to push day tickets and P&V up by an astronomical amount too?!!
Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion
CCRIAT
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion
What I find most hilariously galling about that email is, unlike with the earlier price hike we've already taken on the chin, there was absolutely no justification for the massive price rise. It was written like we'd all been begging DBH to pay them more and they were finally acquiescing to our requests and giving us what we'd been after. Like they were doing us a favour by limiting our options and gutting our wallets without consultation.
Thinking on it last night, if these prices stand, this will be my last FRIAT. As someone who only recently said to a friend that there is no other way to do RIAT than Mach 3, I don't be going FRIAT at all from now. I'll still be doing RIAT - as I recently had to say to my boss in a bit of a back and forth, RIAT is non-negotiable for me, but I'll pay for P&V, I'll do a show day and maybe even a totterdown or such - something I'd never even considered before.
I'll be emailing FRIAT the same as above and I would urge anyone with these grievances to do the same. Make it as hard as possible for them to continue with this new brainchild in good conscience. I also hope the FRIAT stand is as empty as possible next year - I don't care for this scheme to succeed.
Thinking on it last night, if these prices stand, this will be my last FRIAT. As someone who only recently said to a friend that there is no other way to do RIAT than Mach 3, I don't be going FRIAT at all from now. I'll still be doing RIAT - as I recently had to say to my boss in a bit of a back and forth, RIAT is non-negotiable for me, but I'll pay for P&V, I'll do a show day and maybe even a totterdown or such - something I'd never even considered before.
I'll be emailing FRIAT the same as above and I would urge anyone with these grievances to do the same. Make it as hard as possible for them to continue with this new brainchild in good conscience. I also hope the FRIAT stand is as empty as possible next year - I don't care for this scheme to succeed.
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion
One other thing I picked up but not sure if it’s just in the detail but it reads like you only get P&V access on Wednesday with this new format. Surely not
Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion
Reading through the comments, something stands out - I've seen multiple die-hard enthusiasts now saying they're effectively being forced out of the showground and into 'secondary viewing areas' due to RIAT's proposed future pricing structure. And that's just on here for FRIAT, I wonder what next year's standard entrance prices/enclosure/grandstand will be.....can't be a good thing in any number of ways.
At least allow the cost to be be spread over a whole year if you're asking people to book while this year's event is starting!
At least allow the cost to be be spread over a whole year if you're asking people to book while this year's event is starting!
Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion
Ben Dunnell tweets that there is a general underestimation of the costs of staging an airshow. He may be right. But that's not going to change unless there's communication. Wissam says above that there was no justification provided for the massive price increase and the tone of the email - he is right. As Friends of RIAT communication is essential. The meeting did not discuss price increases -apparently - but I wouldn't know as we never got the promised notes and rely on others to pass on information - again no communication of what matters. This is not the way to treat friends and supporters laying out large sums well in advance for something that, as others allude to, may be washed out or may not have the rare aircraft most of us seek. RIAT has some highly professional people working or volunteering for it - with regards communication and management of it they are not doing their jobs and are damaging RIATs relationship with key customers.