RIAT 2023 Discuss everything thread

[Tommy]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 6823076452

Looks like the Sk.60 did win something.

[JJC]

Did anybody manage to get hold of the patches from the ROAF An-26? Went up twice on Sunday, but no joy.

Was also told one of the stalls was selling Saudi Hawks patches?

They were selling from inside the aircraft apparently....mate of mine got a few nice ones. I assume it was maybe the wind & rain that made their minds up on selling from inside. There was a pack of 3 Saudi Hawk patches available for either £30 or £40 depending where you got them from....I saw them at one of the stalls on the static line.

Cheers Bodz and Rockford.

Didn’t have much time to mooch around stalls this year, so didn’t see the Saudi merch. Surprised they weren’t with their exhibition.

Gutted to have missed the Romanians - the An-26 is the only type I haven’t acquired a patch for

[capercaillie]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 6823076452

Looks like the Sk.60 did win something.

It was mentioned a few pages back it won the best overall flying demonstration, although its very difficult to pick through everything I must admit.

[rockfordstone]

Changing subject slightly...... Step Ladders and chairs. Arriving with a 4 rung step ladder on Wednesday, i was pointed to the ladders enclosure, only to find chairs there with bloody tall ladders by then.
Is this a thing now?
Also, did you notice the size of these ladders pushed up against the fence?
I'd suggest that they are limited to be at closest 10 or so feet from the fence, with their chairs. It just seemed silly seeing these 10 rung monoliths up against the fence when they could be back from it and still see over everyones heads, while leaving the shorter ladders available too.

this is something that i found. my friends and i had modest 3/4 steps and we stood further back as it allowed us to see over people, without blocking the view of others but then guys with massive ladders went right to the front.
i believe they were doing it to see over passing vans and cars, but its a bit inconsiderate when you could be anywhere and still see over everyone else.
but its a ladder enclosure i guess so they are not really doing anything wrong

[rockfordstone]

Genuine question, would people still be saying that if the display wasn’t accompanied by Enya? (Emotions can play a big part in decision making).

For the record I thought it was a stunning routine.

i couldn't hear the music where i was, and equally saw it practice without music and it was still stunning

[capercaillie]

Just a quick review and personal thoughts on this year's event.

Well, the weather dominated the build up and the show days this year. To be fair as a photographer, Wednesday and Thursday were decent, Monday excellent with only the Italian Harriers of note leaving when it was a bit claggy, so I've come away with plenty of keepers. However for the average punter going to watch the show, Friday looked hideous and Saturday and Sunday were slightly spoilt due to tech (Danish F-16? - something I really wanted a go at) and weather issues, Me262, German tanking, Buff, BBMF etc. it seems to be a year for Cancelled items - Cosford, Old Warden military show, now RIAT.

Content wise - I was more than happy at another stellar line up in these days of cutbacks, even with last minute cancellations, I counted 13 completely new items from military operators I've never seen before, including the gorgeous little S208s from Italy - an aircraft that's been in service 55 years - and much appreciated that the request to bring a standard and special was honoured. Great stuff. Other highlights personally included the special AMX, Qatari Typhoon, Czech Mi171, FOST Dauphin (only the second time I'd seen one since RIAT 2002), both sets of Harriers, Su22 and of course the Saab 105s both the delightful 60 years special on static and the balletic flying display.

As well as the Saab flying, several of the fast jets stood out - Belgian F-16, Rafale and Hornet and the Danish looked good on practice with knife edge looking tempting, sadly not to happen. The Germans tanking display was great but again I feel robbed of what may have been the absolute star only listed for Friday. Anyone who saw the practice late on Wednesday of the French C-135FR will know what I'm saying, three passes but who could ask for more than the topside pass after teardropping around the back of the crowd and the low level wing waggle. If its possible (if not gone by then - damn you Airbus) book it again for the whole three show days.

The biggest disappointment was what happened to the three Italian historic jets? The two MB326s had arrival slot on Wednesday around 6pm where did they go? And the rumour mill was working overtime with the Gina and the CAA. I'm sure in time everything will be known.

Statics - I know everyone praises the layout, but I'm going to go against the grain this year and say the "cold war" line up against the trees could have done with another 30 degrees of angle. All head on to the barrier they were with the light straight down the tails in the morning and down the nose in the evening. Do we sacrifice the flying display to get the best opportunity to photograph the best area of the static park? Also the Italian AMX special would have been less frustrating swapped with the two seater to eliminate the walkway behind.

Due to the weather I spent what little sun time available at the beginning and end of Sunday trying to get the statics I needed so never bought a single piece of merchandise or food from the showground, so no idea if it was better laid out or not.

Access, turned up early enough each day, got in four days with only being bag searched once and scanned with the metal detector on another. No hassle, obviously my kindly face shows no sign of threat.

After the hard work heatwave of last year where shots were fairly easy to come by, this RIAT was just a battle against the weather but most came good in the end. See you next year. Its still the best overall by a country mile.

[JMC]

Did anyone else see how much fuel the Italian Tornado was leaking? Could smell it throughout most of the blue zone

[aceyone]

Did anyone else see how much fuel the Italian Tornado was leaking? Could smell it throughout most of the blue zone

Wasn't fuel.it was perfume !

[Cole]

Did anyone else see how much fuel the Italian Tornado was leaking? Could smell it throughout most of the blue zone

She was a little nervous, all the cameras being pointed at her!

[Gt5500]

Did anyone else see how much fuel the Italian Tornado was leaking? Could smell it throughout most of the blue zone

Was it the RAF crews that used to say don't about them leaking it's when they stop you worry

[Zoom]

In the museum in Gatow there is a Spanish Casa which was once borrowed for an exhibition in the Netherlands. As it was being taken by barge through Germany, the swastika on the tail had to be covered.

The Buchons I've seen in the UK still have one

FWIW I absolutely hate the faux dogfights some displays put on that end up with the Buchon being shot down sometimes complete with smoke and jingo commentary. No need to glorify it (my Mum was born in Dortmund and lived through it from the other side the same as we did)

[Mortimus]

Did anyone else see how much fuel the Italian Tornado was leaking? Could smell it throughout most of the blue zone

It's just marking it's territory

[UKTopgun]

In the museum in Gatow there is a Spanish Casa which was once borrowed for an exhibition in the Netherlands. As it was being taken by barge through Germany, the swastika on the tail had to be covered.

The Buchons I've seen in the UK still have one

FWIW I absolutely hate the faux dogfights some displays put on that end up with the Buchon being shot down complete with smoke and commentary. No need to glorify it (my Mum was born in Dortmund and lived through it from the other side the same as we did)

Drifting slightly off topic but in that case you'll be glad you didn't go to the Headcorn airshow recently.
The commentator was 100% cringe, talking about the Spitfire taking down 'Fritz' amongst other things. In 2023, suffice to say I was gobsmacked!

[Seahornet]

Did anyone else see how much fuel the Italian Tornado was leaking? Could smell it throughout most of the blue zone

If you think that was a fuel leak, you clearly don't remember the SR-71....

[Andyph]

Its still the best overall by a country mile.

Need to get out more Paul!

[Kurnass]

In the museum in Gatow there is a Spanish Casa which was once borrowed for an exhibition in the Netherlands. As it was being taken by barge through Germany, the swastika on the tail had to be covered.

The Buchons I've seen in the UK still have one

FWIW I absolutely hate the faux dogfights some displays put on that end up with the Buchon being shot down complete with smoke and commentary. No need to glorify it (my Mum was born in Dortmund and lived through it from the other side the same as we did)

Drifting slightly off topic but in that case you'll be glad you didn't go to the Headcorn airshow recently.
The commentator was 100% cringe, talking about the Spitfire taking down 'Fritz' amongst other things. In 2023, suffice to say I was gobsmacked!

Be happy you missed Hyeres 2010…
During the rehearsal on Friday during dogfight between FW190 and Spitfire, the FW190 actually crash landed at sea.
That was realistic…. (Although the emergency Ec135 and Dauphin spoiled the realism of WW2 a bit)

[verreli]

Its still the best overall by a country mile.

Need to get out more Paul!

I agree with capercaillie. I've been to some interesting shows, even recently, with aircraft not seen at RIAT, but as an event, it's still an order of magnitude beyond all others (for military) as Oshkosh is for general aviation.

[Wissam24]

Its still the best overall by a country mile.

Need to get out more Paul!

I agree with capercaillie. I've been to some interesting shows, even recently, with aircraft not seen at RIAT, but as an event, it's still an order of magnitude beyond all others (for military) as Oshkosh is for general aviation.

Thirded. RIAT has a diversity of aircraft from all round the world you won't get at any other show at a scale that few others come close to. It can't be topped.

I'd be interested to know what Andy thinks is better, though.

[Andyph]

Its still the best overall by a country mile.

Need to get out more Paul!

I agree with capercaillie. I've been to some interesting shows, even recently, with aircraft not seen at RIAT, but as an event, it's still an order of magnitude beyond all others (for military) as Oshkosh is for general aviation.

Thirded. RIAT has a diversity of aircraft from all round the world you won't get at any other show at a scale that few others come close to. It can't be topped.

I'd be interested to know what Andy thinks is better, though.

Well this year I'd go Radom as the place to be - it's going to be a spectacle.

But, by Paul's country mile and a bit, I'd say Zeltweg is reliably the best airshow around.

For me Airshows are all about the flying and the spectacle (I have little interest in numbers, and quantity of obscure aircraft/ countries in the static)
Zeltweg with it's quality, varied line up and amazing setting is a winner. Large formations are something the Zelweg gets lots of kudos for - although Fairford was much better this year with things like the tanking set piece - well done!
But as well as the amazing setting, like most European shows Zeltweg has a closer display line and also wins with the taxiway is just in front of the crowd line
Zeltweg always feels intimate and exotic and exciting to me. I love it- as a spectacle it is second to none.
That said Fairford was a much better flying display line up this year (compared to the PC-9 fest last year!) - I have no criticism about Fairford - it's a quality show no doubt but (to me) just doesn't quite have the X- factor

[UKTopgun]

Have never been to a major European airshow, but I must admit one or two do look epic. Especially venues in the mountains. RIAT can't beat that but it scores in other areas.
In the end it's about what you look for in a show... Photogenic opportunities, serials, foreign exotics, just the flying etc etc. Is it Payerne that is in a stunning location?

[Tommy]

For me Airshows are all about the flying and the spectacle (I have little interest in numbers, and quantity of obscure aircraft/ countries in the static)

Seems to me that this is the direction all these debates go. You’re both arguing about what matters to you. Which is fine, you like what you like. Some people hate RIAT but love Old Warden.

It’s impossible to draw an objective conclusion from a subjective statement like that, and I suspect you’ll just circle the plug hole, neither one persuading the other.

(For what it’s worth, I enjoyed RIAT last year just as much as Zeltweg. They both have their pros and cons, and I couldn’t really put one ahead of the other. But even if I could, there is no Air Power this year, so it’s moot anyway.

I also *do* draw tremendous joy from obscure items and cool stuff on static, as well as the flying spectacle).

[Gt5500]

I sometimes get the feeling people run RIAT down or claim XY or Z European show is miles better because it makes them feel a little bit superior that they're going to a show that less of us will be at. I'm not saying that's what's happening here but over the years I've seen so many claims that such and such show is going to blow RIAT out of the water I just can't help think there's a bit of bragging involved.

[Tommy]

There is a bit of that, definitely. And so much is up in the air, too. AirPower in 2019 had rubbish weather, last year’s show had worse pre-show comms than a village fete in the U.K., Radom in 2018 had all the Polish legacy Soviet stuff nixed and withdrawn, and completely ludicrous security policies.

It’s all swings and roundabouts.

Standard hipsterism/contrarianism is “hey, this thing you like? I like something else better.”

That’s probably a bit harsh in Andy’s case, but there is unquestionably a lot of that in the hobby.

[Andyph]

There is a bit of that, definitely. And so much is up in the air, too. AirPower in 2019 had rubbish weather, last year’s show had worse pre-show comms than a village fete in the U.K., Radom in 2018 had all the Polish legacy Soviet stuff nixed and withdrawn, and completely ludicrous security policies.

It’s all swings and roundabouts.

Standard hipsterism/contrarianism is “hey, this thing you like? I like something else better.”

That’s probably a bit harsh in Andy’s case, but there is unquestionably a lot of that in the hobby.

I think you might be over thinking it somewhat!

And on the flip side, its seems here to be a lot of -if you are not being a believer that RAIT is better than everything else then you must be a ......(insert as appropriate)

I've been going to IAT since 1977 - it's very good - Obviously not at the level it was in the 70/80/90s. And feels a bit samey nowadays. But still very good.

I have no complaint about IAT, I just find the adventure of european shows more exciting.

[Wissam24]

I sometimes get the feeling people run RIAT down or claim XY or Z European show is miles better because it makes them feel a little bit superior that they're going to a show that less of us will be at. I'm not saying that's what's happening here but over the years I've seen so many claims that such and such show is going to blow RIAT out of the water I just can't help think there's a bit of bragging involved.

I'd tend to agree. I love an obscure show as much as the next person - I went to Batajnica this year and saw 10 J-22s in the air, but that doesn't mean RIAT is worse just because it didn't have any J-22s at all.