RIAT 2025

[CWS]

Yep, also I'm guessing due to what they do 'for a living', the more SIGINT/Recon aircraft types will be announced much much closer. So could be in for a good batch of updates leading up to the show. Bring on next Thursday and what the Germans are bringing!

[Airwolfhound]

Loving these helicopter updates, far more interesting than another grey fast pointy thing in my (unpopular) opinion

[Morgangalley]

Loving these helicopter updates, far more interesting than another grey fast pointy thing in my (unpopular) opinion

Not unpopular. I’d take a Blackhawk anyday 1000% over another gripen, or another typhoon.

Optimal circumstances would be both gripen and Blackhawk came but I’d take it over the gripen alone

[Skyflash]

In my experience most people who attend RIAT have a much higher level of knowledge on aviation than many on this forum may credit them with. We are a nation of aviation enthusiasts!

I'm always a defender of RIAT, but I must admit I do tire of helicopter displays. The old Czech Hind team were superb, but a single aircraft pootling about for 10 minutes is a bit boring! Nevertheless, i've no doubt it will be a great show.

If it's the same demo as Sanicole in September then you're in for a treat with the Swedish Black Hawk, it's an absolutely brilliant display. One of the most dynamic helo routines I've ever seen, and all the more spectacular because it's being performed by a large, powerful machine.

[capercaillie]

Single helicopters pootling about for 10 minutes in the boring class?

Over the years I can think of many crews that would take issue with that, covering large amounts of display line, performing dynamic sometimes aerobatic manouevres that were far more enjoyable to watch as a display than a number of fast jets displays I've seen that people were wetting their pants over - Polish Su22 pair for example - one wings swept/forward pass and countless gear down circuits - snoooooooze - somehow winners of As Crow Flies I believe. (Great machines accepted).

Lets see RAF Chinook, Puma, Merlin, Sea King, Army Lynx, Dutch Apache, Swiss Super Puma, German Army Bo105, CH-53G, US Army Apache, Slovak, Czech and Hungarian Mi24/35, German NH-90, Italian Mangusta and that's without delving into the seedy underworld of the Grasshoppers or the Eurocopter trio

A bit more pootling from the early eighties of our Swedish friends

[verreli]

A bit more pootling from the early eighties of our Swedish friends

Very nice display. I wonder how many RIAT 25 chopper displays will reach this standard?

[Morgangalley]

Single helicopters pootling about for 10 minutes in the boring class?

Over the years I can think of many crews that would take issue with that, covering large amounts of display line, performing dynamic sometimes aerobatic manouevres that were far more enjoyable to watch as a display than a number of fast jets displays I've seen that people were wetting their pants over - Polish Su22 pair for example - one wings swept/forward pass and countless gear down circuits - snoooooooze - somehow winners of As Crow Flies I believe. (Great machines accepted).

Lets see RAF Chinook, Puma, Merlin, Sea King, Army Lynx, Dutch Apache, Swiss Super Puma, German Army Bo105, CH-53G, US Army Apache, Slovak, Czech and Hungarian Mi24/35, German NH-90, Italian Mangusta and that's without delving into the seedy underworld of the Grasshoppers or the Eurocopter trio

A bit more pootling from the early eighties of our Swedish friends

Preach! Everyone says helis stay in front of the crowd the whole display. They don’t. Only time they do is when they’re sat just hovering. Or in some cases they’re doing something with winches or personnel. Hardly boring. Flat and level passes repeated by the same jet, Can get boring.

[capercaillie]

Time will tell. As one more treat and this is just a snippet of its combined display from Mildenhall Air Fete 1987 when it was thrown around with wild abandon while the Bo105 was rolling and looping at the other end of the airfield. Wouldn't this be a great display to see back again!


Boring choppers eh?

[verreli]

It’s almost like little else matters to them but for the same noisy grey lumps. I repeat my earlier post - that seems like a rather restrictive way to enjoy the hobby.

I don't think that 98% of the people that attend RIAT consider it part of their hobby.

Irrespective, I've given it some thought and come to the conclusion it's a bit like going on safari. The first few times you go, you want to see everything but want to see the cats (lion, leopard, cheetah, etc) and perhaps the odd personal favorite (e.g. Rhino) most of all. When you've lost count of the times you've been and seen most before, you still want to see the old favorites, but start to covert the rare and more obscure. Things like the dung beetle. Now, while you may have one or two people who get light headed whenever they see a dung beetle, for most, if the majority of the safari consisted of dung beetles, they'd perhaps not enjoy it as much as seeing a cheetah-fest. Mind you, a safari consisting only of cheetah would tire quickly too. The key to a good safari is variety with a balance towards the exciting and unusual.

[CWS]

Yes but displays are not like that anymore. That Swedish demo above is amazing but we have got health and safety and restrictions since then!

Looking forward to seeing some big heli's being slung around nevertheless

I don't find a heli display boring ... just don't want to see a couple of hours worth. I'm not wrong or right, just my preference

[CWS]

It’s almost like little else matters to them but for the same noisy grey lumps. I repeat my earlier post - that seems like a rather restrictive way to enjoy the hobby.

I don't think that 98% of the people that attend RIAT consider it part of their hobby.

Irrespective, I've given it some thought and come to the conclusion it's a bit like going on safari. The first few times you go, you want to see everything but want to see the cats (lion, leopard, cheetah, etc) and perhaps the odd personal favorite (e.g. Rhino) most of all. When you've lost count of the times you've been and seen most before, you still want to see the old favorites, but start to covert the rare and more obscure. Things like the dung beetle. Now, while you may have one or two people who get light headed whenever they see a dung beetle, for most, if the majority of the safari consisted of dung beetles, they'd perhaps not enjoy it as much as seeing a cheetah-fest. Mind you, a safari consisting only of cheetah would tire quickly too. The key to a good safari is variety with a balance towards the exciting and unusual.

Great analogy !

[capercaillie]

Yes but displays are not like that anymore.

OK leave the Hkp4 aside, it was in its home country with probably manouevres that wouldn't get past a committee these days. The CH-53 is doing nothing different to the NH-90 or Swiss Super Puma routines, its just a bigger unit, so more folks go oooooh!

2022 had six helicopter routines, Hungarian Hind, Czech Hind and Hip duo, Czech Sokol, RAF Chinook, German NH90 and the AW149, five new to the show at the time. I don't recall the chuntering in the build up to that one.

Now this year we've had announced a fabulous looking Portuguese Merlin, an impressive debut Swedish Blackhawk, a second only and probably last ever appearance of a Czech Sokol (and fingers crossed a neat red/white one), and the returning German NH90 and its although some folks have written off the whole thing. But what listed there is not to like? I'm sure we'll get the British acts added but that may be it for helicopter acts, no great difference to 2022, but again its only March.

[CWS]

Yep I agree, I'll judge the final lineup in July like we have both said.

If the Chinook, black cats, this new wildcat/apache demo (if it is a thing) and the Finish NH90 get added it won't be a bit of me. But this is hypothetical

I'm very happy with the quality of the heli displays announced, just personally don't want anymore.

2022, I was just happy to get a show back, didn't really think to much into the lineup. I was more amazed at how it came back 'the same' arguably with some better static items than the recent previous shows. Also I will never moan about a Hind in the flying display!

[Luke-84]

Polish Su22 pair for example - one wings swept/forward pass and countless gear down circuits - snoooooooze - somehow winners of As Crow Flies I believe. (Great machines accepted).

Those missed approaches are one of my favourite 'recent' RIAT memories. Ear shattering porn.

Having said that I'm certainly enjoying the rare Helicopter updates this year and have no issue at all with the variety on offer at the moment.

Also I think the Swedish Gripen has been to RIAT close to every year since it became a demo so something different from them is very much welcome and appreciated.

[RIAT Air Ops]

Evening Folks,

Lots of lively debate! Everyone entitled to their opinions, you're the customers afterall, but as others have said I would point out it is only March and we're still waiting for much of Europe to finalise their plans for the year, in a rather unstable geopolitical environment. Regarding the "too many helicopter" comments, perhaps the truth is that previous shows have been very fast-jet heavy, and this years show will be more "balanced" with more rotary displays? The lack of helicopter displays was commented on in the post show survey last year by visitors, and I'll put my cards on the table to say if I was an attendee I'd rather have a Portuguese Merlin, Swedish Black Hawk and Czech Sokol infront of my camera than the respective grey fast jets those nations could provide (and in two cases, have provided multiple times). Given the inclusion of SAR as part of our EYES IN THE SKIES theme, I am quite pleased to see some rarely seen SAR machines in the flying programme, it is relevant for RIAT 2025, and then with a different theme and focus next year we'll see a different composition of aircraft.... variety is the spice of life. We have updated our guidance material for aircrew, and for the helicopter displays we are specifically highlighting the length of the crowdline and encouraged them to ensure they plan to fly the whole length of the display line during their sequences.

A broader comment reference participation expectations and online commentary; I have a theory which I often discuss with my colleagues which I call the "3 Year Rule". This is my observations regarding decreasing interest/appreciation of returning display items, that basically boils down to the fact once something has been for three consecutive shows, it loses it's interest for some enthusiast visitors. The German Army NH90 is a classic example of this: Year one its participation was hotly anticipated, second year it was commented as 'nice to have back', then by year three it starts to become 'common' and generally people treat with contempt as it continues to participate. Until it doesn't, and then it's suddenly missed. The Belgian F-16 would be a classic example of this, given the last outpouring of love we saw when the demo was axed, which contrasted with the general lack of excitement for it's participation when announced in previous years. I would be so bold to extend the theory to the Ukrainian Flanker, looking at how hype reduced from its first display in 2017, to being seen as a regular participant by 2019. Not a whinge, just an observation that extends far wider than RIAT!

Lots of other good stuff, and hard work, ongoing on many projects. Roll on July!

Cheers,
Peter

[BenTheBritishGuy]

Cheers Peter! Really appreciate all the hard work your all putting in… the Thursday updates are what’s keeping me going at the moment so thank you! Roll on many more announcements and Roll on July

[JJC]

The Swedish Blackhawk was incredible at Sanicole. Low, fast and aggressive.

Could Peter perhaps confirm if this is the last update from Sweden or if the Gripen (a welcome stalwart) is yet to come…?

Either way, it is shaping up to be a great show. Variety is the spice of life.

[AARDVARK]

Thanks Peter for the update/input… mine and other comments are simply just that , doesn’t detract from all the hard work you and the team put in..
I put my hands up and admit iam a fan of fast jets , that’s me, that doesn’t mean i don’t appreciate everything else that ends up on the tarmac in July.
One question still remains and a bit of a conundrum , the yanks .. in particular their demo teams and their policy of having to have an operational task to be “over here” .
Prime example is Sanicole in the last couple of years 2023 they bagged the F35 Demo , 2024 the F16 , both utilised USAFE airframes for their displays, a more striking example of the seemingly contradictive policy is at the Australian International Airshow this month which has bagged not only the USAF Raptor Demo but also the Pacific airforces ( regional USAF ) F16 ,( which is also attending Aviano show this year), and the C17 demo.
My point is if these teams can travel to the other side of the world , with their aircraft i might add, why is it RIAT ( being a USAF base to add to the mix) has seemingly been frozen out of contention, their doesn’t seem to be any rhyme or reason for this, admittedly both Sanicole (Sept) and Avalon (March) are not in prime airshow season, just a shame when you think back at the times when we would see multiple demo teams and even the Thunderbirds cross the pond for the odd show, bit it is what it is.. of course who could forgot the unique spectacle of a U2 in the Friday flying display last year, which arguably i would take over any demo team for sheer rarity value.
Whatever we get roll on July

[BenTheBritishGuy]

Thanks Peter for the update/input… mine and other comments are simply just that , doesn’t detract from all the hard work you and the team put in..
I put my hands up and admit iam a fan of fast jets , that’s me, that doesn’t mean i don’t appreciate everything else that ends up on the tarmac in July.
One question still remains and a bit of a conundrum , the yanks .. in particular their demo teams and their policy of having to have an operational task to be “over here” .
Prime example is Sanicole in the last couple of years 2023 they bagged the F35 Demo , 2024 the F16 , both utilised USAFE airframes for their displays, a more striking example of the seemingly contradictive policy is at the Australian International Airshow this month which has bagged not only the USAF Raptor Demo but also the Pacific airforces ( regional USAF ) F16 ,( which is also attending Aviano show this year), and the C17 demo.
My point is if these teams can travel to the other side of the world , with their aircraft i might add, why is it RIAT ( being a USAF base to add to the mix) has seemingly been frozen out of contention, their doesn’t seem to be any rhyme or reason for this, admittedly both Sanicole (Sept) and Avalon (March) are not in prime airshow season, just a shame when you think back at the times when we would see multiple demo teams and even the Thunderbirds cross the pond for the odd show, bit it is what it is.. of course who could forgot the unique spectacle of a U2 in the Friday flying display last year, which arguably i would take over any demo team for sheer rarity value.
Whatever we get roll on July

I’m probably wrong but I believe I had something to do with those shows being classed as trade shows and RIAT not so the Americans view them differently.

[AARDVARK]

Thanks Peter for the update/input… mine and other comments are simply just that , doesn’t detract from all the hard work you and the team put in..
I put my hands up and admit iam a fan of fast jets , that’s me, that doesn’t mean i don’t appreciate everything else that ends up on the tarmac in July.
One question still remains and a bit of a conundrum , the yanks .. in particular their demo teams and their policy of having to have an operational task to be “over here” .
Prime example is Sanicole in the last couple of years 2023 they bagged the F35 Demo , 2024 the F16 , both utilised USAFE airframes for their displays, a more striking example of the seemingly contradictive policy is at the Australian International Airshow this month which has bagged not only the USAF Raptor Demo but also the Pacific airforces ( regional USAF ) F16 ,( which is also attending Aviano show this year), and the C17 demo.
My point is if these teams can travel to the other side of the world , with their aircraft i might add, why is it RIAT ( being a USAF base to add to the mix) has seemingly been frozen out of contention, their doesn’t seem to be any rhyme or reason for this, admittedly both Sanicole (Sept) and Avalon (March) are not in prime airshow season, just a shame when you think back at the times when we would see multiple demo teams and even the Thunderbirds cross the pond for the odd show, bit it is what it is.. of course who could forgot the unique spectacle of a U2 in the Friday flying display last year, which arguably i would take over any demo team for sheer rarity value.
Whatever we get roll on July

I’m probably wrong but I believe I had something to do with those shows being classed as trade shows and RIAT not so the Americans view them differently.

I think you are half correct , Avalon has a trade element for some of the week and then reverts to public days Friday onwards , speaking to some USAF crew last time i was at the show who said during the week they were allowed to sell items but once Friday came they couldn’t , crazy hey!
Sanicole i have never heard it publicised as a trade show, being it’s in a field basically and virtually everything operates from a nearby base.

[Morgangalley]

Thanks Peter for the update/input… mine and other comments are simply just that , doesn’t detract from all the hard work you and the team put in..
I put my hands up and admit iam a fan of fast jets , that’s me, that doesn’t mean i don’t appreciate everything else that ends up on the tarmac in July.
One question still remains and a bit of a conundrum , the yanks .. in particular their demo teams and their policy of having to have an operational task to be “over here” .
Prime example is Sanicole in the last couple of years 2023 they bagged the F35 Demo , 2024 the F16 , both utilised USAFE airframes for their displays, a more striking example of the seemingly contradictive policy is at the Australian International Airshow this month which has bagged not only the USAF Raptor Demo but also the Pacific airforces ( regional USAF ) F16 ,( which is also attending Aviano show this year), and the C17 demo.
My point is if these teams can travel to the other side of the world , with their aircraft i might add, why is it RIAT ( being a USAF base to add to the mix) has seemingly been frozen out of contention, their doesn’t seem to be any rhyme or reason for this, admittedly both Sanicole (Sept) and Avalon (March) are not in prime airshow season, just a shame when you think back at the times when we would see multiple demo teams and even the Thunderbirds cross the pond for the odd show, bit it is what it is.. of course who could forgot the unique spectacle of a U2 in the Friday flying display last year, which arguably i would take over any demo team for sheer rarity value.
Whatever we get roll on July

I’m probably wrong but I believe I had something to do with those shows being classed as trade shows and RIAT not so the Americans view them differently.

I think you are half correct , Avalon has a trade element for some of the week and then reverts to public days Friday onwards , speaking to some USAF crew last time i was at the show who said during the week they were allowed to sell items but once Friday came they couldn’t , crazy hey!
Sanicole i have never heard it publicised as a trade show, being it’s in a field basically and virtually everything operates from a nearby base.

I believe I’m right I. Saying this:

RIAT is in the height of the airshow season both for the UK and US. There, put simply, might not be enough time for any of the teams to make it as they are busy, need a break etc. Sanicole and aviano are both towards the end of the season, hence more free weekends and chances to go international. Of course there’s other factors at play too but these are what I can think of. I think they should make more of an effort to get to the air tattoo, but it’s not the end of the world if they don’t.

e.g who would want viper demo team over any of the European ones?

[CWS]

Thanks for comments Peter , echoed above please don’t ever read it as people aren’t appreciative. I’m all booked in for Thursday Friday Saturday and Monday , can’t wait. Highlight of the year by a mile is Riat. It’s just general conversation and opinions on things . Looking forward to what else is in store

[Dreadnought]

Thanks for comments Peter , echoed above please don’t ever read it as people aren’t appreciative. I’m all booked in for Thursday Friday Saturday and Monday , can’t wait. Highlight of the year by a mile is Riat. It’s just general conversation and opinions on things . Looking forward to what else is in store

Yep I'm with you on that CWS highlight of my year is RIAT cannot wait to get there, Also appreciate everything Peter and the team does for putting on an epic show year on year for us all to enjoy keep up the good work DBH

[BenTheBritishGuy]

Thanks for comments Peter , echoed above please don’t ever read it as people aren’t appreciative. I’m all booked in for Thursday Friday Saturday and Monday , can’t wait. Highlight of the year by a mile is Riat. It’s just general conversation and opinions on things . Looking forward to what else is in store

Who needs Christmas when you have RIAT!

[jasonT1981]

I'm in the mindset now that I will no longer complain if I don't like something. RIAT always has a varied line up appealing to most people in one way or another. What might not be appealing to one, could be appealing to someone else.

Sure, there are updates that don't quite do it for me and are not as exciting as some others. But the one thing about RIAT is there is always something I have never seen before.

I'm just going to try and appreciate things while I can as the aviation/ airshow world has changed so much in the last decade.


I was never a big helicopter fan but have come to really like some of them, and so far in the flying the two I am looking forward to the most are helicopters.