What do YOU think will be the next Red Arrows aircraft?

[Skylinerworld]

Not sure if there's a way to merge this with the other thread as a poll? I just thought it'd be interesting to see what people think is most likely to replace the Red Arrows Hawk T1.

Some options will seem really silly to some, but I'm simply trying to include every option that I've seen mentioned in the past.

[Unknown74]

Well I’m going to go for Aeralis

[Mike]

Hawk T2, after they are replaced in the training role by the M346

[FGR2]

The Red Arrows promote the RAF, Great Britain as a country and British industry.

I can’t help thinking that the latter plays a huge role in overseas visits, promoting Bae Systems/Rolls Royce and the UK defence industry. How many sales of defence equipment and £ to the UK have come off the back of the Reds international displays?

Anything other than a UK designed/built jet would lose the relevance for their existence.

The Hawk T2 is only now built in India by HAL so unless ones from Valley are moved across I cannot see this happening. I would like to see Aeralis in with a chance. We need as a country to kick start our industry again and this to me seems the only sensible option to put us back on the aviation map, with export potential.

Why would the MOD send the Red Arrows (if equipped with the M346) to Canada or the Middle East for weeks to promote jets for Italy’s aviation industry?

[iainpeden]

Paint the BoBMF single seaters red and it’s sorted (5 Spits, 2 Hurricanes and 2 Chippies).

[iainpeden]

Hawk T2, after they are replaced in the training role by the M346

AFAIK the RAF doesn’t own the T.2s and reliability is appalling.

[toom317]

Can't see the Reds going on after the T1's go.

[Wings and Things]

Paint the BoBMF single seaters red and it’s sorted (5 Spits, 2 Hurricanes and 2 Chippies).

Chipmunks are two-seaters.

[iainpeden]

Paint the BoBMF single seaters red and it’s sorted (5 Spits, 2 Hurricanes and 2 Chippies).

Chipmunks are two-seaters.

Crew transport!

[Mike]

Hawk T2, after they are replaced in the training role by the M346

AFAIK the RAF doesn’t own the T.2s and reliability is appalling.

They do own them, they were bought outright

[iainpeden]

Thanks, Mike.

[Berf]

So I cheated I think it will be the M346 but what I would like it to be is a five ship Typhoon team (one solo) and a spare.

[aceyone]

So I cheated I think it will be the M346 but what I would like it to be is a five ship Typhoon team (one solo) and a spare.

Now you're talking, of course it will never happen ,the only time the RAF put up that amount of Jets is for our glorious monarch !

[JMC]

The T50 would be my choice from a avgeek perspective. Looks good, noisy, and supposedly is very advanced.

Would hate it to be the toy kit that is the Aeralis.

[Stagger2]

IMO using the Hawk T2 for the Red's will surely prevent them getting past the PDA stage?
Unless perhaps they paint all of them RED to be able to deliver 10 working examples at any given time!
According to the House of Commons Library (CBP-10239) the following extract,

The Hawk T2 aircraft is expected to remain in service until 2040 to allow time for the design and build of a new advanced jet trainer. However, in March
2025 the MOD said that there were questions whether the Hawk could continue until that date, and that alternative options are being assessed.
The RAF had 28 Hawk T2 aircraft in service as of 1 April 2024.
On 28 March 2025, the Minister for Defence Procurement said that Hawk T1 aircraft are “scheduled to remain in service until 2030 and the Hawk T2 aircraft out-of-service date is in 2040”

Clearly the T2 can certainly remain in Service until 2040, coz it barely ever flies anywhere! (Plus, twenty to nine pm ain't even a full day! )

Given that the 2025 Red's display is similar to previous years in spending so long away from crowd centre that a replacement can be scrambled from Waddington to replace a team
dropout mid-display without anybody noticing! This could work, but replacing them with a RED sixteen-ship British built 'Storm Shroud' Drone Swarm is the way to go!

[aviodromefriend]

IMO using the Hawk T2 for the Red's will surely prevent them getting past the PDA stage?
Unless perhaps they paint all of them RED to be able to deliver 10 working examples at any given time!
According to the House of Commons Library (CBP-10239) the following extract,

The Hawk T2 aircraft is expected to remain in service until 2040 to allow time for the design and build of a new advanced jet trainer. However, in March
2025 the MOD said that there were questions whether the Hawk could continue until that date, and that alternative options are being assessed.
The RAF had 28 Hawk T2 aircraft in service as of 1 April 2024.
On 28 March 2025, the Minister for Defence Procurement said that Hawk T1 aircraft are “scheduled to remain in service until 2030 and the Hawk T2 aircraft out-of-service date is in 2040”

Clearly the T2 can certainly remain in Service until 2040, coz it barely ever flies anywhere! (Plus, twenty to nine pm ain't even a full day! )

OSDs can change. Given what has been made public about problems with the T.2, I wouldn't be surprised if the T.2 retires before the T.1.

[8674planes]

If they wanted an aircraft with a British connection then I say the Gamebird GB1. Designed, first flown in the UK & public debut at Flying Legends 2016 (albeit not flying). Cheap at around $500k per aircraft.

[Mike]

A Walmart special!

[GeeRam]

IMO using the Hawk T2 for the Red's will surely prevent them getting past the PDA stage?
Unless perhaps they paint all of them RED to be able to deliver 10 working examples at any given time!
According to the House of Commons Library (CBP-10239) the following extract,

The Hawk T2 aircraft is expected to remain in service until 2040 to allow time for the design and build of a new advanced jet trainer. However, in March
2025 the MOD said that there were questions whether the Hawk could continue until that date, and that alternative options are being assessed.
The RAF had 28 Hawk T2 aircraft in service as of 1 April 2024.
On 28 March 2025, the Minister for Defence Procurement said that Hawk T1 aircraft are “scheduled to remain in service until 2030 and the Hawk T2 aircraft out-of-service date is in 2040”

Clearly the T2 can certainly remain in Service until 2040, coz it barely ever flies anywhere! (Plus, twenty to nine pm ain't even a full day! )

OSDs can change. Given what has been made public about problems with the T.2, I wouldn't be surprised if the T.2 retires before the T.1.

I think the T.1 and T.2 will both go at the same time for that reason.

[FGR2]

The opportunity here is for the Government to get behind a UK company like Aeralis, with a development of an adaptable/affordable jet, in the vein of the Folland Gnat/JP Strikemaster/Hawk.

Build it in the UK creating much needed skilled jobs and potential export orders.

Market the hell out of it to get money back into our struggling economy, so future modular platforms can then be developed.

A new Red Arrows jet could be the tool to market this new aircraft, if they can get it right.

The question is what is the wider benefit to UK PLC long term, buying the M346/T-50 other than them being available off the shelf now?

The Red Arrows going overseas and flying the flag for the UK defence industry with Italian or Korean built jets just seems a non starter to me.

If the Reds aren’t being used as an international marketing tool then a large part of their reason for existing has gone.

[GeeRam]

The opportunity here is for the Government to get behind a UK company like Aeralis, with a development of an adaptable/affordable jet, in the vein of the Folland Gnat/JP Strikemaster/Hawk.

Build it in the UK creating much needed skilled jobs and potential export orders.

Market the hell out of it to get money back into our struggling economy, so future modular platforms can then be developed.

A new Red Arrows jet could be the tool to market this new aircraft, if they can get it right.

While this seems laudable, and is what the politicians want......the same politicians didn't want to order enough T.2 from BAe to make it worthwhile to them to even consider keeping Brough open. The RAF ordered 100+ Gnat T.i's and order well over 100 Hawk T.1's as their replacements.
Hawk T.2 order was a mere 28.
BAe clearly didn't see there being enough market for sales to design a replacement with the likely orders it was going to get.
How do think Aeralis can do it, when they've never built a single aircraft as yet, let alone lots of them?
That's not even getting into the somewhat questionable backgrounds and connections of some of the Aeralis top people.

The question is what is the wider benefit to UK PLC long term, buying the M346/T-50 other than them being available off the shelf now?

But, that's exactly what's needed, it needs to be something that is currently already flying to meet what is likely a brought forward T.2 retirement date, and if they want the Reds to continue beyond 2030.
If its accepted that the Reds cease to be in 2030 when T.1 OSD occurs, and they are not part of the equation, then you can start looking at other options that are still in development, or join with the French and Spanish to develop a 2035-2040 replacement aircraft as was mooted last year. But that would mean the Reds would at the very least cease to exist for maybe 5 or more years until the replacement came into service. Given how well the MoD do capability holidays, then so be it.
Aeralis haven't even built a flyable and testable prototype yet, so even if the MoD were stupid enough to give them a contract tomorrow, the Reds won't have anything to fly after 2030.

If the Reds aren’t being used as an international marketing tool then a large part of their reason for existing has gone.

Exactly.
The Red Arrows as they are currently are still representing a bygone RAF and British aircraft industry of the 1950's to 1980's era, which ceased to exist 20 years ago, when UK Govt chose to dismantle it by no longer wanting to place orders in sufficient numbers to keep it going.

[bobby 1211]

The opportunity here is for the Government to get behind a UK company like Aeralis, with a development of an adaptable/affordable jet, in the vein of the Folland Gnat/JP Strikemaster/Hawk.

Build it in the UK creating much needed skilled jobs and potential export orders.

Market the hell out of it to get money back into our struggling economy, so future modular platforms can then be developed.

A new Red Arrows jet could be the tool to market this new aircraft, if they can get it right.

The question is what is the wider benefit to UK PLC long term, buying the M346/T-50 other than them being available off the shelf now?

The Red Arrows going overseas and flying the flag for the UK defence industry with Italian or Korean built jets just seems a non starter to me.

If the Reds aren’t being used as an international marketing tool then a large part of their reason for existing has gone.

I wonder if we will see more national teams fly aircraft which are are not manufactured in their country? Patrulla Aguila is the latest display team which now uses a non domestic design.

Fly a domestic design:
Russian Knights - SU-35
August 1st - J-10
Thunderbirds - F-16
Blue Angels - F-18E
Red Arrows- Hawk T1 - no domestic replacement?
Snowbirds - CT-114 - no domestic replacement?
PdF - Alpha Jet - no domestic replacement?
Team Orlik - PZL-130 - no domestic replacement?
Black Eagles - T-50B
Frecce Tricolori - MB-339 - moving onto the M-346 soon, which is another domestic aircraft
PC-7 Team - PC-7

Dont fly a domestic design:
Baby Blue- T-17
Yellow Sparrows - MFI-17
Patrulla Aguila - PC-21 (flew C-101 before)
Saudi Hawks - Hawk Mk.165
Turkish Stars - NF-5A - moving onto the domestic Hürjet?
Patrouille Suisse - F-5E - future TBD
Al Fursan - MB-339 - Moving onto the L-15 soon
Wings of Storm - PC-9
Midnight Hawks - Hawk Mk. 51
Silver Swallows - PC-9

[Unknown74]

A Squadrons worth of a mixture of Airfix and Revell 1/32 Scale Model kits of Hawks....

[Bill16STN]

Yawn

[Wes_Howes]

With Turkey/Turkiye moving closer to buying Typhoons, I can see them trying to do a deal with the Government on the Hurjet