Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Discussions regarding historic aircraft, restoration and preservation etc
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Blue_2
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Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Post by Blue_2 »

The unbounded joys of the UK in Winter..!
Meteor WS788/ Chippy WK640 Restoration Project, YAM
Shack WR963, Coventry
Other types meddled with by request!

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Cole
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Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Post by Cole »

Looking more and more doubtful that we will ever see this fly..

It seems the current "company/trust/whatevertheycallthemselvesthesedays" is being dissolved

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10598129/filing-history/MzI1NTQzNzM4M2FkaXF6a2N4/document?format=pdf&download=0

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10598129/filing-history
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Dudley, West Midlands

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Well Um..

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richw_82
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Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Post by richw_82 »

Correct.

At the Directors meeting this year we had the opinion we didn't warrant the CIC, its been an unnecessary encumbrance. How many other aircraft preservation groups do you know that are CIC or a CIO? There's no need for it. We want to preserve the aircraft and ditch the over the top ideas about being a small airline/business empire/company/trust/whatevertheycallthemselvesthesedays/etc that were thrust upon us. This is one small step back to our roots and better times.

The bills are still being paid. Maintenance is still being done. The aircraft is still okay (weathering the recent storms fine), and will be running up on Apr 4th.

Rich
Richard Woods
Team leader Avro Shackleton WR963
2009 - 2016
2019 -
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hunterxf382
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Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Post by hunterxf382 »

Glad to hear it Rich - having caught up on the previous few posts on here.

Looking forward to hearing those Griffons growl in earnest in April!
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Cole
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Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Post by Cole »

Fair enough, glad to hear that there is still hope.

Thank you for the swift response, hopefully this is a sign of things to come :smile:
Canon 800D & Sigma 150-600 C
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ozplane
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Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Post by ozplane »

Pleased to hear that WR963 is being cared for. She certainly seems to have a better chance of survival than the Duxford Shackleton which looks very unloved but is at least under cover. Hopefully it might get some TLC when the Victor is finished but that looks as though it has quite a long way to go.

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richw_82
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Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Post by richw_82 »

Cole -

You're welcome. We looked back on the last ten years and the best times and fortunes for the aircraft were when we didn't try and make the group into something it wasn't and concentrated on the Shackleton herself. This is the part of trying to return to that and remove a lot of unnecessary complication and allow focus on the important stuff.

For instance - I can now pay bills and things off without having to run it by other people. I can make my own parts purchases (with my money) without having to take funds out the business only to find the part has then gone because I had to wait for someone to finish work to countersign it off. There was a lot of stuff that would have worked great if we'd been employed 9 - 5pm with the Shackleton, but less so when we're trying to do this around regular jobs and our families.

Ozplane -

It would be nice to have a roof over our head, the few times we've had WR963 in a hangar its been like working on a different aircraft. If we can get a few taxy runs out of her this year we might be able to get her in over winter next year and cover some ground properly.

As it is, the wet weather has caused a few headaches with green algae (thanks to the wet grass) so we've got to get her cleaned up soon and some sealing and paint rework when the weather gets better. We're debating whether to get on with a strip and repaint next year into the 205 Sqn FEAF colours - so back to white over grey and blue spinners. We may even add the "White Knuckle Airlines/Shackair" legend depending on how we feel.

Thoughts..?


Rich
Richard Woods
Team leader Avro Shackleton WR963
2009 - 2016
2019 -
http://www.facebook.com/avro.shackleton

rob68
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Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Post by rob68 »

Go with whichever paint will give you the least headaches, more protection and less time keeping clean

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richw_82
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Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Post by richw_82 »

To be honest there's not much in it. Apart from certain areas around the inboard nacelles the undercoat applied by the RAF was holding up pretty well, and the topcoat cleans fairly easily. The current white does show up any algae or staining a little more than grey does though.
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2009 - 2016
2019 -
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richw_82
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Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Post by richw_82 »

Hi all.

I've just spent a little time trying to revive some of the photos back through this thread. If I find any more, I'll put them in too.
Richard Woods
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2009 - 2016
2019 -
http://www.facebook.com/avro.shackleton

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richw_82
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Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Post by richw_82 »

Hi all.

Seeing as I'm sat here doing not a lot, I had another look at this thread and realised the last time I threw any genuine content its way was just before the pandemic kicked off proper. Now, it could have ruined everything for us and WR963, but thankfully it didn't - we not only managed to keep going in the face of it, we're doing better than we could have hoped.

So I thought instead of an end of year roundup, I'd do a post Covid roundup. (yep... I know. Fingers crossed we're done, eh?)

We ended up off site from Feb 2020 until a brief visit to check on things in June 2020. It was a little depressing as we'd not been able to even get on site until then due to the various restrictions on travel/work/what is or isn't local guidance, and we had planned to try and get started on converting the bomb doors back to full length. WR963 was dirty, a mess, and had an unserviceable starter motor from January when it had overheated due to a stuck contactor, taking the starter cable and starter motor bushes with it through the extreme heat.

Thankfully, hedging our bets we'd fitted all the engine covers and sealed her up before leaving. It paid off.

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Nice and dry inside too.

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We had a mess over one mainwheel to deal with though, a leaking gasket on the engine driven gearbox behind No 2 engine had left us this to clean up.

Image

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Duly attended to, its irritating more than anything.

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So next visit it was get on with a few more bigger jobs. A full wash, to get rid of all the grime...

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And that starter motor... what a swine. Buried in the nacelle behind oil cooler, radiator shutter and various bits of engine bearer. I'm half convinced that during the build of these powerplants they had a starter motor and built the rest around it!

Undeterred, we all got stuck in. No hiding behind the camera, even for me. Cowlings off...

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Including all the side of the nacelle as we had to work from the contactor at the back, all the way up to the starter itself.

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Access is limited, it says in the manual. No kidding?!

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So, we pull the oil cooler out and swing it away from the nacelle.

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Thats a bit better. Old one off, new one on.

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Then its put it all back together, and time for a bit of a "Flight of The Phoenix" moment. Awaking a Griffon that hasn't been playing for a while!



So far so good... now we had to try and get what engine runs we could done, and public in under Covid restrictions.
Last edited by richw_82 on Wed 29 Dec 2021, 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Richard Woods
Team leader Avro Shackleton WR963
2009 - 2016
2019 -
http://www.facebook.com/avro.shackleton

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Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Post by richw_82 »

It was never going to be that easy though was it... No 1 stubbornly refused to start. Debris in the priming system had settled and blocked the lines up to the inlet manifolds.

So we ended up replacing the priming solenoid behind the firewall, removing and cleaning all the fixed lines, and cleaning out where it splits off to feed each bank of thirsty V12.

All the cowlings off (again)...

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To get at the lines, including this little filter where it splits into two.

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Carefully cleaning it in paraffin, and rodding out all the galleys had it serviceable and flowing fuel. All the while hiding under the wing from a horrendous downpour..

Image

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Will it start, mister...?

Don't know. Lets see. Fuel on, mags on, Turning No 1...



That'll do!
Richard Woods
Team leader Avro Shackleton WR963
2009 - 2016
2019 -
http://www.facebook.com/avro.shackleton

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Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Post by K5054NZ »

Rich, thank you so much for these posts! It's always great to see what's happening with this lovely old lady, regardless of when the actual work was done.
Zac in NZ
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Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Post by frank »

Thanks Rich, really enjoyed the update. Can appreciate all the hard work and effort it takes to keep it going (well to be honest I can`t really as I type this from a comfy chair but you know what I am trying to say).
I have only see WR963 with engines running at the 2002 airshow so that really dates me, must get back up there.
Best wishes
Frank

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Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Post by Tommy »

Excellent to see, Rich.

As mentioned in the other thread, good to see her again in the flesh at the nightshoot!

Image

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richw_82
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Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Post by richw_82 »

Hi all,

Thanks for the feedback. My current plan is to bring the thread up to present date, and then try to keep running with it as work carries on.

Zac - You're welcome, more to come. :)

Frank - Please do come back and see us again. 963's come a fair way since 2002, though still has a long way to go.

Tommy - Cracking photo, I'm pleased that you and the others enjoyed the event... so we're looking if we can squeeze another in before the nights get lighter.
Richard Woods
Team leader Avro Shackleton WR963
2009 - 2016
2019 -
http://www.facebook.com/avro.shackleton

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Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Post by richw_82 »

So, back to the timeline.

We managed to squeeze another couple of visits in then right before lockdown managed to do a night run with the Vampire that is based here, days before we got locked down again..

Luckily, the visits meant we could get a recent oil donation put in. Generosity beyond measure by our sponsors, but I do wish it had come in bigger bottles... I felt like an ant under a magnifying glass up there pouring it in a quart at a time.

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My little lad is starting to want to join in, so he has been helping Daddy with various bits as and when he comes with me. Luckily for us he's not the strength to undo lockwire yet... but he's good at wiping round.

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Steve and Mark took on replacing the two tailwheels with two refurbished ones, so the rear end is sitting on new tyres and tubes. We had fun breaking down the towbar to come off, so that will need attention rather soon.

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We got an order in for new cockpit perspex large side windows. These are new machined items using originals as patterns and date from the manuals. Upcoming work (2022) will involve also fitting new windscreens, and top portions, so we can reseal the canopy entirely.

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And as soon as we were able, we kept running. 2021 was an important year to mark in several ways, its 70 years since the Shackleton entered service, its 30 years since retirement. And for us, when the end of the year started approaching, two years since we lost John. We managed to get through the worst of the pandemic on luck, determination, and what we'd put away from selling events and seats on run ups. We kept the aircraft safe, and running, so we hope wherever John's spirit is now, he's happy we're keeping up our end of the bargain. WR963 will growl on.

Image

So.. December 2021.

We did the immensely popular Threshold night shoot, little did anybody know at the time we were nursing a poorly engine. Two weeks prior to the event, and duringa run up the coolant temperature spiked, followed by Battle of Britain movie style smoke effects. The engine wasn't blowing off from the vent, it was coming from inside the cowling. We idled the engine for a few seconds, checked for indications of a fire inside the nacelle, and on realising it wasn't burning shut it down normally; rather than punching the fire extinguisher buttons until everything blew on it that would.

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After things had cooled we found we'd had a hose go, but there were indications of a weep further up from one of the casting plugs behind the exhaust shield on the A bank cylinder head.

This was the hose.

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An easy fix, but the weeping plug was going to have to wait until after Threshold's event to get done. We hoped the engine would hold out as we didn't want to overheat it - barely having got away with it when the hose went. If the coolant temp gauge went over 105 degrees it was getting shut down regardless.

In order to avoid disappointing folk with a three engine performance we hatched a plan to give it the best chances.

We'd refill the coolant system right before the run, literally 10 mins before the engine started, so lost coolant would be kept to a minimum. We'd start the engines in opposite order - 2, 1, 3, 4, instead of 3, 4, 2, 1. That way No 4 would be started last and so achieve maximum time on all four engines before any rise in temperature. On the Engineer's panel I'd also leave the radiator shutters on manual and kept wide open to keep its warm up phase as long as I could. We'd also only open up 1, 2 and 3 when we deliberately go to higher power to make noise and exhaust flame.

What can I say, it paid off. Tommy's excellent shot is one of many captured that night, as is Graham (Blue_2)'s 'over the shoulder' moment.

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Next time he's getting this nifty chart to use so I can check the mixtures. I'll admit I barely looked out the window after starting the engines, my eyes being fixed on No 4 temp gauges and daring them to move out of range.

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We got a good one from one of our outside team when we briefly had the lights on.

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So what next?

Well, lots of things. Some of it good, some not so good, but we desperately need a repaint and we have all sorts of ideas for that.

Image

Image
Richard Woods
Team leader Avro Shackleton WR963
2009 - 2016
2019 -
http://www.facebook.com/avro.shackleton

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Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Post by hunterxf382 »

It's great too see this thread catching up on the year's undertakings Rich - as with other threads such as Graham's - being lost in the forum crash meant you can happily sneak in some new updates covering the missing months and it all looks good again :)
That oil supply.... well I can remember how popular I was when I delivered the first batch from the sponsor to the eager crew....lol At that moment I wished we had some sort of Oil Bowser instead.....lol

Thanks to various inconvenient issues I haven't been able to pop back as much I wanted to, but that should change in '22 as I do love to see the Old Grey Lady run in fine fettle :)
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Blue_2
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Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Post by Blue_2 »

Here's to making more Shack noise in 2022; for an old girl living outdoors in all weathers, she's in remarkably good order and it's a privilege to be involved with her, let alone getting take the left seat 3 times this year!
Interesting times beckon for 63 and Coventry Airport, so please keep supporting 63 and keeping this very British machine alive.
Meteor WS788/ Chippy WK640 Restoration Project, YAM
Shack WR963, Coventry
Other types meddled with by request!

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Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Post by Domvickery »

Thanks for updating the thread Rich, I look forward to what 2022 brings, I’ll have to pop down & see progress for myself
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Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Post by Archer »

Thank you for posting that exhaust characteristics chart! It confirms my memory of watching a pair of R-2600s running up in the dark. On a B-25 the bottom cylinders have short exhaust stacks and you'd get those short blue flames from each individual stack. The Haynes conversion to TB-25N gathered the other exhausts into a collector ring and a single outboard exhaust which would emit a three feet long blue flame at higher power settings. It was long before the days of (phones with) digital cameras unfortunately.

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richw_82
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Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Post by richw_82 »

Hi all,

Glad you're enjoying the updates, I will keep it going. Despite the popularity of Facebook, I do like forums as some users on here/flypast/fightercontrol I've known for a long time, and you are the ones that have seen this mad adventure of ours from the beginnings. Archer, you're welcome for the flame chart.

This is a little repost from elsewhere. This was an new year update email for a lot of our followers and goes some way to explaining what's been going on recently, and for next year.

"It has not been easy looking after one of the last live Shackletons in the world through this two years of Covid induced uncertainty, and we couldn't have got this far without your support.

We managed to carry out six engine run ups this year, with the last being a night photo shoot for Threshold Aviation, something we hope to repeat. We had a few unservicibilities, including one rather spectacular looking coolant hose failure which gave almost Battle of Britain movie style steam out of No 4 engine nacelle! Neither did we manage to taxy again this year, though hope to go out the gate in style in 2022. Short of a suitable CAA aproved radio and a couple of small items to rectify there really isn't that much stopping it happening.

We realise we have been quiet recently - almost agonisingly so - but the reason we've held off reporting on some news is we were waiting on various outside circumstances finally settling down. First and foremost is we need to talk about the Airport situation - the planning permission for the battery production facility on site is looking like it will pass on 11 January 2022, which will mean the clock is ticking for moving WR963 one way or another to an alternative location away from Coventry. The ultimate dream would be a one off ferry flight, but sadly the realist in us all suggests it will be a dismantle and move by road - the first time she will have been taken apart in a major way since the mid 1980's.

We're still waiting on confirmation from two places as future homes, both are ex-RAF bomber bases with existing usable runways - one is an active airfield (not airport), the other being a significant museum environment that houses running aircraft already. We can't say more until either are confirmed and green lit, but hope thats enough to get you guessing in the right direction!

The more recent and eagerly awaited event was the news we had been awarded a grant of £29,500 by the National Heritage Covid Emergency Resource Fund, just prior to Christmas. This was to help recoup some of our lost operating costs during lockdowns, and to help us get on a stable financial footing going forward into 2022 and beyond. This will be used to cover rent, fuel, insurance and also an amount of work on the Shackleton herself.

To include a repaint...

Yes, it needs doing again, the current 224 Sqn Coastal Command scheme having lasted just over ten years, something of a record for white! We have struck out though when trying to find maritime equipment to fit - with just 185 Shackletons produce of all variants, and many being scrapped by the mid-1970's its proved almost impossible to revert WR963 back as we initially wanted. When recently we found an AEW radome was available we took the decision to halt any further revision and the AEW2 scheme will be the one that we go with if we can secure the radome in the next few weeks.

Image

The all over gloss Dark Sea Grey being a lot easier to maintain in a clean condition outdoors and also its the version of Shackleton most remembered by those of a younger age - especially those that remember the final few airshow performaces in the early 1990s. It also has the added benefit of helping strengthen our link with the current 8 Squadron, and gently remind them just how good they used to be before they started playing with jets again...

The aircraft sits waiting for us all to return in early 2022, and as soon as weather allows we'll get her ready for her first run up. As you all know, she doesn't have the luxury of a hangar to hibernate in over winter and regular running is the alternative to keep things working as they should."

Image

So, any AEW.2 fans in the room?
Richard Woods
Team leader Avro Shackleton WR963
2009 - 2016
2019 -
http://www.facebook.com/avro.shackleton

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Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Post by hunterxf382 »

That's a brilliant update Rich, especially the funding part! Congratulations on securing that in the face of adversity!
Now about that little gem on the planned paint scheme - well that's a bit exciting! As I am of an age to remember them in service in that scheme up until retirement - it's one I approve of for sure! Our well known Welsh Canadian fella who served on No. 8 Squadron at the time will I'm sure be pleased as well, as it also appeals to the more recent generation who know what a Shackleton is for sure!
And being, as you say, and easy maintenance finish it will help preservation no end as long as it retains it's finish better than one particular example during the final operation years did ;)

Now I'm REALLY looking forward to developments coming on stream!
Pete Buckingham
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Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Post by TonyC »

Another vote for Dark Sea Grey here, it's the scheme always in my mind, when thinking about the Shackleton.

Good news on the funding and here's to a moving 2022 :grinning:
...and pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in Space cos there's bugger all down here on Earth!

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Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Post by K5054NZ »

It'll certainly be far less frustrating for me to paint my long-desired 1/72 Airfix version than the current scheme - white model paint and I do not have a positive relationship! :grin: Great news on both that and the funding!
Zac in NZ
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