British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

Discussions regarding historic aircraft, restoration and preservation etc
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BPAG
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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

Post by BPAG »

AndyXH558 wrote:
Tue 13 Oct 2020, 8:56 pm
Keep up the great work, I always liked the j model, and I'm really glad that you've saved her..
Many thanks. Its going to be a long process but the will and knowledge to get it done is all there.

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BPAG
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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

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Last weekend saw us back at Manston. Once again the current Covid restrictions (coupled with the fact that this stage of the dismantling process is concentrated on a few small areas- mainly the lower leading edge of the wing to fuselage zone) meant that we could only have limited numbers onsite.

However this did not stop us having a very successful couple of days,
with good progress made in vital areas. Fuel lines, drain lines and
wiring from inside Door 22 stripped out and D22 itself removed, as it
overlaps the leading edge of the lower wing skin. Stn 4 missile well was also stripped out to give access to the structural connections and
various hydraulic lines and components cleared from above Stns 4 & 6 to facilitate access and removal of leading edge BLC ducts.

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Emergency nitrogen bottle removed after dismantling further structure
for access. Rear cockpit upper instrument panel also removed and both intakes cleared of debris. Among the clutter was found a broken off probe tip, which will be repaired and refitted, and a missing cover plate from the nose gear bay.

Finally, structure removed inside doors 75 (left & right) that join across the wing & fuselage.

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Many thanks to all our volunteers for giving up their weekend and to
everyone at Manston for their ongoing hospitality.

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BPAG
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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

Post by BPAG »

With opportunities and progress on the main work at Manston being dictated by the weather and the rules of social distancing, this may be a good time to take a look at some of the more intricate restoration tasks going on elsewhere. The instrument and electrical work is being done by our very dedicated and skilled member, Paul West, in his own home workshop.

It's incredible to see these items coming back to life after many decades of being sat unused. First up is something you dont see every day, the components making up the mechanics of the accelerometer-

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Accelerometer, pneumatic pressure gauge and slip and turn indicator-

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Generator and external power control and warning panel-

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Finally, for now, the KD41 radar scope camera, before and after-

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We are always on the look out for instruments, components, gauges or other parts. Please feel to get in touch at BPAGinfo@gmail.com if you have something you feel we might be interested in.

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Blue_2
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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

Post by Blue_2 »

Great to see life returning to parts for the old girl!
Meteor WS788/ Chippy WK640 Restoration Project, YAM
Shack WR963, Coventry
Other types meddled with by request!

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BPAG
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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

Post by BPAG »

Blue_2 wrote:
Thu 29 Oct 2020, 8:00 am
Great to see life returning to parts for the old girl!
Many thanks. We are lucky in having a pool of engineering talent to draw on, for which we are very grateful. Couldn't do this without our volunteers, so kudos to them.

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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

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Five years ago today, the British Phantom Aviation Group (in the shape of David Butterfield and Paul Wright) started work on a small touch up job at an exhibit at Newark Air Museum. We think that it came out alright in the end, if we do say so ourselves...

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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

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With the work to extract ZE360 from Manston on pause due to lockdown, the ongoing process of restoration of parts still continues elsewhere. Andy Groves at JW Smart Services has once again produced another amazing transformation, this time on the nosewheel steering torque links.

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Meanwhile Paul West is tackling our increasing store of instrumentation and panels, for ZE360 and our other projects, which in this case is the simulator cockpit from Leuchars. We must tell you more about the latter at some point, it is a project with great promise but has had to take a bit of a back seat this year.

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The ultrasonic cleaning bath works miracles on the years of accumulated dirt and grime, including the switch internals. Also seen here is a cockpit 'wander lamp' which was a recent donation and is now stripped and cleaned, ready for reassembly.

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Many thanks to Andy and Paul for their hard work.

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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

Post by Unknown74 »

Hi guys at BPAG, been great looking through the posts on here and seeing the ex-raf Phantoms being restored in some condition or other, The project for ZE360 the ex-RAF F.4J(UK) looks pretty exciting and will look forward to seeing the pics on here one day when she's complete good luck guys.

What I really wanted to say is good luck restoring the cockpit of the RAF Leuchars Phantom Simulator. I always wondered what happened to the SIm after it had been retired from use, I remember with great fondness being informed in a phone call that I had won the prize at the AIrshow one Year - can't remember which - for a chance to have a flight in the Simulator and I can tell you it was an experience I will never forget. I understand the project is quite far off but all the very best and will look forward to seeing the pictures on here when you eventually complete this in future.

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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

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Unknown74 wrote:
Sun 22 Nov 2020, 3:54 am
Hi guys at BPAG, been great looking through the posts on here and seeing the ex-raf Phantoms being restored in some condition or other, The project for ZE360 the ex-RAF F.4J(UK) looks pretty exciting and will look forward to seeing the pics on here one day when she's complete good luck guys.

What I really wanted to say is good luck restoring the cockpit of the RAF Leuchars Phantom Simulator. I always wondered what happened to the SIm after it had been retired from use, I remember with great fondness being informed in a phone call that I had won the prize at the AIrshow one Year - can't remember which - for a chance to have a flight in the Simulator and I can tell you it was an experience I will never forget. I understand the project is quite far off but all the very best and will look forward to seeing the pictures on here when you eventually complete this in future.
Hello. Many thanks for your kind words and best wishes. It would probably be more accurate to call it a 'systems and procedures trainer' rather than a simulator as use of the latter word conjures up ideas of the kind of sophisticated, full motion simulators that we have today. This one was far more basic and relied on a three-axis motion platform. However, it was referred to as 'the sim' back in the day (and the former is a bit of a mouthful) so we will follow tradition.

It originally surfaced outside of MOD hands in a Glasgow scrapyard in the late 1990's and was purchased by a group of Norwegians, who shipped it off to Oslo and planned to perform a full restoration. Due to various reasons this didn't make much progress and it returned to the UK and into the hands of noted F-4 collector Mike Davey. It has remained in Mike's care for the past 15 years awaiting the right time and opportunity for work on it to begin. It is pictured below as it was while in storage.

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May 2019 found it moved from its storage location and into the workshop where restoration finally began. Here it is in a semi stripped down state- panels, seats, front canopy, windscreen and various components removed.

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It has been a project that has been very low key. It doesn't have the glamour of the full aircraft projects and it's needs are not as pressing (it is in private hands, and is therefore privately funded and is safely protected from the elements in an indoor location). It is something that the BPAG team have been working on when the engineering itch needed scratching and access to the main projects has not been possible. It will eventually be folded into the BPAG portfolio of projects as the aim is to restore it into a mobile exhibit, that can be taken to events that are too small for or cannot otherwise host XV490. There is also the option of installing a VR rig, so persons can actually 'fly' the sim for themselves.

As ever, time, resources and opportunities will dictate how long the restoration work will take. However, if you are a member of the dreaded Facebook, you can follow progress on a dedicated group. See here- https://www.facebook.com/groups/358596085013549

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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

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The BPAG are saddened to report that on 30/11/2020 the scrapman came and removed the mortal remains of FGR.2 XV411 from the grounds of the former DFDTC Manston. Unlike ZE360, which luckily avoided burning, XV411 was used in live fire training exercises numerous times and for the past few years could only really be described as a derelict airframe. Despite this fact, it is always a shame to see a mighty Phantom pass away.

However, the aircraft will live on in a small way through the BPAG. The owners of most of the remaining aircraft at Manston, Spey Bay Salvage, generously agreed a deal to allow us to recover as much as would be useful to us from the airframe during its last few days. This ended up including the fin and a multitude of internal components that are still in restorable condition. Although in rough shape, the fin is intact and will be repaired and preserved for future display.

Many thanks to our members and volunteers for getting their hands (very) dirty, Wayne and his crew from Spey Bey and Stuart Mann from Reclemet for their invaluable assistance and the Commandant and staff at Manston for their co-operation. Finally, sincere thanks go to Richard Murray, owner of SBS, without whom this could not have happened.

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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

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A kind and thoughtful recent gift from the O/C of DFTDC Manston to the BPAG was a copy of this photo from 1991, showing ZE360 being towed across the road from Manston airfield to the fire school premises. A process that almost ended in mishap if recollections are to be believed.

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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

Post by ZRX61 »

I've always thought it would be cool to have a collection of F4 or Lightning fins painted up in the various squadron schemes.. or failing that, full size versions painted on a hangar wall, inside or outside.

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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

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*UPDATE REPOSTED FOLLOWING FORUM DATA LOSS IN NOV 2021*

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Good Evening everyone. We were going to wait until we’d finalised every single detail before releasing this info but after this most extraordinary year, we all need some good news. So, we can at last confirm the speculation that some of you may have recently heard and announce that The British Phantom Aviation Group we will become residents of Cotswold Airport/Kemble in the New Year.

This represents a change to our initial plans but given the facilities of an active airfield, the co-location of The Buccaneer Aviation Group, the growing collection of classic aircraft on site and the ambition of the airport's management, it was decided that this was in the best interests of both the Group and our aircraft in the long term. We will look forward to sharing more details of our plans and preparations with you at the appropriate time.

Thank you for your continued support and we would like to take this opportunity to wish you all the merriest Xmas possible under the current circumstances and send you our best regards for a brighter and happier 2021.

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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

Post by BPAG »

*UPDATE REPOSTED FOLLOWING FORUM DATA LOSS IN NOV 2021*

As many of you will be aware, we were recently fortunate enough to be able to undertake a spares recovery process on FGR.2 XV411 before it was finally scrapped. We are very grateful to Richard Murray of Spey Bay Salvage for allowing us this opportunity, which brought up some extremely useful bits and pieces. Below is a selection of some of the items we recovered and a brief description.

As we have a lot more of these, we’ll spread them out over a few posts and then follow up with some 'before and after' pictures and extra information. Work on ZE360 is once again on pause due to lockdown, so in the meantime we hope posts about the restoration of these parts will be of interest and we'll also share some details of other items that we have recently received.

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General view of hydraulic components.

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Hydraulic unions. Phantom are notorious for leaking and these are not the sort of thing that people have on their shelves. They can be bought commercially, but they are not cheap.

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Hydraulic reservoir. We managed to recover both Power Control (PC) reservoirs, but were unable to get the utility one in the time available.

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Stabilator actuator. As this is situated at the rear of the aircraft, it didn’t suffer too much heat damage. A useful spare.

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The RAT, or Ram Air Turbine. This took two days of concerted effort by our volunteers to free, but they succeeded, and also managed to extract the associated generator. As we will never need to use this, it will be restored as a display piece.

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More hydraulic components. The silver ones are from D22, and the red items are blanking caps from the hydraulic servicing point in D23.

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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

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*UPDATE REPOSTED FOLLOWING FORUM DATA LOSS IN NOV 2021*

Here’s the first lot of ‘before and after’ pics of some of the items recovered from XV411. These are a selection of bulkhead unions and fittings from the hydraulic system. It has always been our intention that our aircraft would be as functional as possible and as the Phantom was basically a flying hydraulic leak, we are likely to need them and so took the trouble to remove as many as we could gain access to.

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Hydraulic unions and blanking caps. Unfortunately about one third of the recovered items were found to be too damaged to keep, once they had been cleaned. The stainless items at the bottom of the picture are hydraulic swivels that sit on the hinge line of Door 22 and take hydraulic power to the air compressor.

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Hoses for supply and return, PC reservoir.

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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

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*UPDATE REPOSTED FOLLOWING FORUM DATA LOSS IN NOV 2021*

In addition to the parts that will be visible in the cockpits and on the exterior of our aircraft, there is also much support equipment that will be needed as the restoration projects continue. So, during summer 2020, we were fortunate to be able to buy these two items from another collector.

The larger of the two is a whole aircraft sling, which unbelievably picks up a complete Phantom using just four bolts. However, what makes this one extra special is the information on the data plate as F4H-1 was the designation for the Phantom BEFORE it became F-4A and means that it probably dates from the early days of production. We can only assume it made its way to the UK as part of a support equipment package during the initial F-4K procurement (and far be it from us to infer that the Yanks were selling the Brits any old stuff that they could find in the back of the shed). Naturally, before we use the sling, it will be load tested and certified.

The second item is a dedicated Stabilator sling. This will make refitting the Stabilators a much easier and safer proposition when that task comes around. This one is dated 1984 but the plate looks to have been fitted where an older identification plate has been removed. Once again, it will be load tested and certified before joining our growing collection of support equipment.

Once again, many thanks to all of you who have supported us with your purchases and donations. These play a vital part in helping us obtain these useful items.

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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

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*UPDATE REPOSTED FOLLOWING FORUM DATA LOSS IN NOV 2021*

Today will see the 30th anniversary of ZE360`s delivery flight from RAF Wattisham to Manston where she would take on the new role as a training aid at the resident fire training school.

The year was 1991 and the world`s attention was focused on Operation Desert Storm and the ongoing conflict in the Middle East. The retirement of the RAF`s unique F-4J(UK) Phantom fleet was to therefore come and go relatively un-noticed. The F-4J’s were being systematically dispersed to take up secondary roles, such as battle damage repair or fire training duties at various RAF airfields. The aircrews delivering them made the most of these ‘trips’ and many of the aircraft were in a clean configuration so they could attempt one final Mach 2 run. ZE360 was no different.

On the morning of the 22nd February 1991, pilot Ian Hargreaves and navigator Ray Jones departed RAF Wattisham, climbed out over The Wash and then headed into the North Sea. Once 35 nautical miles offshore, the nose was pointed south and full power applied. If it wasn’t for an intake ramp going out of phase causing the right engine to surge at approximately Mach 1.96, it’s safe to say 360 would have successfully achieved the aim of travelling at twice the speed of sound as planned. However, with little fuel remaining and lots of altitude to lose, all that remained were some rather tight turning aerobatics, eventually registering a respectable 8 on the G meter.

In a fitting end for an aircraft designed for Naval operations (especially considering the aircraft’s previous life in service with the US Navy`s Atlantic Fleet) ZE360 landed at Manston making a cable engagement. The aircraft then self-cleared before folding the outer wings and taxiing to the designated dispersal. With the aircrew catching a lift home to Wattisham in a 22 Sqn Sea King, ZE360 was left in the hands of a team of Wattisham's ASF engineers who prepared her for her final duties while still in RAF service.

In this anniversary year, after 30 years of decay at Manston, we are looking forward to the aircraft finally departing again, heading for Kemble, Gloucestershire, to begin the restoration process which will be the start of a much brighter future for this extremely rare aircraft.

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Pilot Ian Hargreaves and Navigator Ray Jones pose with ZE360 outside the HAS at Wattisham prior to departure to Manston.

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ZE360 on the tarmac at Manston.

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Photo showing Mach 1.8 on the meter. Moments later the right intake ramp went out of phase causing the engine to surge.

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After a number of tight, turning aerobatics, 8G was the final figure on the meter.

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Taken from the open door of the departing Sea King, ZE360 is left on a Manston dispersal to await her fate as a fire school training aid.

Finally, some footage from the landmark day last summer when the aircraft finally moved back to hardstanding-

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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

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*UPDATE REPOSTED FOLLOWING FORUM DATA LOSS IN NOV 2021*

We have recently received a kind donation of a number of original F-4J(UK) parts from Mr Jamie White after he read about the restoration project on social media. We would like to say a big thank you to Jamie for reaching out and offering these instruments, which we believe may come from ZE360 herself. Note the North Island NARF stickers, confirming them as definitely from an F-4J(UK).

If you have or know of someone who may have parts that could help with ZE360`s restoration, please do get in touch. We'd be very interested to hear from you.

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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

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*UPDATE REPOSTED FOLLOWING FORUM DATA LOSS IN NOV 2021*

A little thing, but it's the details that make all the difference. While all work on ZE360 is on hold, we continue to restore some of the the smaller parts. For instance, here is an inflation valve from one of the mainwheels which, after many years buried in the Kent soil, was a bit worse for wear. So, the internals were freed off and cleaned out, then the outside was treated to some attention on a wire wheel. Dust cap was also given a fresh coat of yellow (which is less orange than in the picture). Once we can retrieve the wheel from the powder coaters, they will be reunited and be ready for a replacement cover.

Also pictured are the mainwheel bolts. These hold the two halves of the wheel together and (like the valve) have suffered from thirty years of exposure to the elements. After cleaning they will be kept greased to prevent further corrosion before re-plating at a later date.

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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

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*UPDATE REPOSTED FOLLOWING FORUM DATA LOSS IN NOV 2021*

A nice pic of XV490 in 74 Sqn colours at the 1992 Tiger Meet at Albacete, Spain.

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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

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*UPDATE REPOSTED FOLLOWING FORUM DATA LOSS IN NOV 2021*

As many of you will be aware, the closure of DFTDC Manston has been ongoing for some time. However, the Covid pandemic has thrown everyone’s planned schedules out of the window, including the date for moving ZE360. We have been fortunate in that the MOD have been very understanding and accommodating to the many changes in the situation and we are indebted to the officers and staff at Manston for their continual support for the work we have been doing (especially when you consider that the original target for the move was 31/12/19).

However, there is still a hard deadline to meet, which is the handover of the base to the Army later in 2021. The halt in activities due to both the lockdowns and winter weather has meant that we will not be ready for this deadline but an alternative solution has presented itself, in the form of space at the nearby Manston Airport.

Therefore, Saturday 24th April saw the aircraft start its journey by being pre-positioned by the exit, then, on the morning of 25th April, just over 30 years after it arrived and following months of careful planning, ZE360 finally left DFTDC Manston. This meant retracing the road journey it made after its final flight- through the fire school gates, along Manston Road, onto the old taxiway and across the B2050 and back on to airport premises itself.
Things have changed somewhat since 1991 (not the least of which being the presence of the DFT facility at the airport) which meant obtaining permission from local Police and Kent County Council to close the roads and from the Department of Transport, HMRC and Customs and Excise to pass through a secure area to reach the destination.

Despite pinch points and tight clearance along public roads and a somewhat circuitous route around the airport taxiway and runway, the aircraft arrived safely at the apron, having coped with the stresses of the day admirably.

We are very grateful to Manston Airport for their generous and timely offer and would like to extend our thanks to our crew of volunteers, who all arrived at the crack of dawn and carried out their duties with the utmost care and professionalism. We could not have done this without you. Special mentions go to Wing Commander Callender, Commandant of DFDTC and his staff, particularly Sgt Thackery, without whom the past couple of years would all have been a lot more difficult. We must also thank Tony Freudmann, CEO of RiverOak Strategic Partners Ltd (the airport owners) and to Gary Blake, the airport manager.

Appreciation also goes out to Skeltons, TBF Traffic, Reclamet, Hewbourn Ltd and Spey Bay Salvage for their invaluable help.

More updates to come very soon. Watch this space.

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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

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*UPDATE REPOSTED FOLLOWING FORUM DATA LOSS IN NOV 2021*

30 Years Later. A couple of interesting comparisons from ZE360’s recent move to Manston Airport. Firstly, leaving airfield premises for a new life at the Fire School on 28/02/1991 and returning through the same gate on 25/04/2021.

Secondly, during the long tow around the airport taxiway, we were able to pause by the spot where the aircraft completed its final flight on 22/02/1991. We were unable to access the actual dispersal as it was outside the strict route agreed by the DFT but it was still a poignant moment.

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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

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*UPDATE REPOSTED FOLLOWING FORUM DATA LOSS IN NOV 2021*

While the focus of our efforts over the past couple of weeks have been on ZE360 and Manston, there is also significant activity happening elsewhere, as another important addition to the BPAG stable has recently been made.

As most of you will know, the cockpit section of XV490 is owned by BPAG member Mike Davey and it was the first restoration project the Group undertook, back in 2015. What has been the subject of much conjecture over the intervening years is the whereabouts of many other parts of the airframe. We were therefore surprised and delighted to suddenly discover the fin of 490, in storage in the Norfolk area and available for sale. Given the relevance of this component to the Group and its collective history, we had no hesitation in swiftly buying it for our collection.

So, on May 2nd, the fin was collected from the previous owner and has been taken to Wattisham Heritage Museum, where it will be stored until it can transported onwards to Kemble. Two separate teams of BPAG members volunteered their time to help load and unload the fin at each end and we would like to thank them, as well as a couple of unknown bystanders who noticed what was happening and offered a bit of extra support at the Norwich site.

A very special mention must also go out to Nathan Garrard and Tony Mallet who supplied the transport for the task and to Maggie Aggiss and the team at the Wattisham Heritage Museum who have generously offered to temporarily store the fin at their facilities. We are sure you will appreciate how important this item is to the BPAG and we hope you will join us in celebrating its acquisition. We will look forward to placing it on public display at the earliest opportunity.

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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

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*UPDATE REPOSTED FOLLOWING FORUM DATA LOSS IN NOV 2021*

The BPAG are proud to announce that our website is now online. This new resource will allow us to publicly archive media and information and release news and updates outside of the confines of the usual social outlets and hopefully be a way to reach those historic aviation enthusiasts who still shun the Facebook/Twitter/Instagram universe (and there are plenty out there). We will also be preparing and publishing more in-depth features and articles relating to UK Phantoms, much of which will be exclusive.

There will no doubt be some teething troubles (there always is with brand new websites) and the occasional typo that has slipped through the net, but this is our new online home. Please feel to drop by and stay a while- https://bpag.co.uk

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Re: British Phantom Aviation Group (Official Topic)

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*UPDATE REPOSTED FOLLOWING FORUM DATA LOSS IN NOV 2021*

Here's another little side project currently ongoing, which has been keeping our Quartermaster and instrument restoration expert Paul West busy on his days off.

As ZE360's cockpit is some years away from being ready to have its instrumentation refitted, we thought a good way to showcase some of it would be to recreate parts of the instrument panels for use as display pieces at events. The instruments will be lit, and both the ADI and standby AH will be operational. It’s still a bit rough and ready at this point but this is the first fit. As you can see there are a few holes we need to fill and the point of this post is to say that if you have any instruments hidden away that you would consider parting with, then please feel free to get in touch. We know that they are out there somewhere, cluttering up garages and sheds...

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