Germany buying new Typhoons, Super Hornets and Growlers

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boff180
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Re: Germany buying new Typhoons, Super Hornets and Growlers

Post by boff180 »

I believe its a NATO treaty that certain nations that don't have their own Nukes must be capable of delivering a standardised Nuclear payload if called upon. The US maintain a stock of B61's stored at the following bases in Europe for this very purpose:-

Belgium - Kleine-Brohel
Germany - Buchel
Holland - Volkel
Italy - Ghedi and Aviano
Turkey - Incerlik

Currently the F-16 and Tornado are cleared to drop the B61 (I think the F-15E is too), the F-35A is also being cleared. The issue with Germany is the US have said they would deliberately delay the clearance of the Typhoon if Germany chose it over a US type to replace the Tornado in the role but - if the Super Hornet was chosen they would expedite clearing the type for the bomb (obviously as the F-35A was already being cleared, no such offer was made for this type).

We aren't part of the requirement due to having our own Trident missiles and the French have the ASMP nuclear cruise missile.

At the last Volkel show, the US put a dummy B61 on display.

Andy

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Tmyers123
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Re: Germany buying new Typhoons, Super Hornets and Growlers

Post by Tmyers123 »

CJS wrote:Except Germany isn't a nuclear power, I thought it just allowed the US to base nukes there.

Why are German aircraft going to carry them? Surely that will never happen?


Under NATO’s Nuclear Weapons Sharing program, which I assume you’re referring to with the US nukes, the participating nations would carry the weapons in the event they were needed. That’s one of the reasons why Belgium chose the F-35A, it can carry the B61.

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Re: Germany buying new Typhoons, Super Hornets and Growlers

Post by CJS »

Thanks both :up:
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Re: Germany buying new Typhoons, Super Hornets and Growlers

Post by Spiny Norman »

boff180 wrote:Currently the F-16 and Tornado are cleared to drop the B61 (I think the F-15E is too), the F-35A is also being cleared. The issue with Germany is the US have said they would deliberately delay the clearance of the Typhoon if Germany chose it over a US type to replace the Tornado in the role but - if the Super Hornet was chosen they would expedite clearing the type for the bomb (obviously as the F-35A was already being cleared, no such offer was made for this type).



Am I right in thinking Germany is being 'persuaded' out of buying an aircraft it part makes itself!

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Tommy
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Re: Germany buying new Typhoons, F-35s

Post by Tommy »


Stagger2
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Re: Germany buying new Typhoons, Super Hornets and Growlers

Post by Stagger2 »

All very interesting.....but what does this mean then?
www.reuters.com/world/europe/germany-de ... 022-03-14/
Apologies Tommy, should've checked recent posts? :blush:

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Re: Germany buying new Typhoons, Super Hornets and Growlers

Post by frank »

So the good news is that Germany is finally spending more money on defence, which from a NATO POV and indeed all of us here in the UK is a good thing in terms of security.
Looking at the two posts by Andy and Tommy I was wondering how the actual number now look.
The original post by Andy implied a purchase of 135 aircraft consisting of
90 Typhoon - in both the air to air and strike roles/configurations
30 F/A-18E Super Hornet - to be cleared to carry the B-61 nuclear bomb.
15 E/A-18G Growler
The second post implies up to 50 i.e.35 F35s and 15 Typhoons. A much more modest number in itself and quite a turnaround.
Just wondering if there were more news to come

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Re: Germany buying new Typhoons, Super Hornets and Growlers

Post by DOUGHNUT »

The 15 Typhoon mentioned above are going to be instead of the EA-18G used in the ECR role, possibly two-seat aircraft. Given the cost of F-35 and its perception as being a "better" aircraft 50 F-35A = 90 Typhoon + 30 Super Hornet.
Wonder how long before British Government decides to change the remaining F-35B order to F-35A.

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Re: Germany buying new Typhoons, Super Hornets and Growlers

Post by GeeRam »

DOUGHNUT wrote:
Sun 20 Mar 2022, 10:14 am
The 15 Typhoon mentioned above are going to be instead of the EA-18G used in the ECR role, possibly two-seat aircraft. Given the cost of F-35 and its perception as being a "better" aircraft 50 F-35A = 90 Typhoon + 30 Super Hornet.
The 50 F-35A + 15 x EW role Eurofighters, are just replacement for their Tonka fleet.

They will still have the rest of their Eurofighter in the AD role, with the order for 38 x Tranche 4 Eurofighters signed for in 2019, to replace all their Tranche 1 Eurofighters, plus the Tranche 2+ aircraft gradually getting upgrades.

And yes, I suspect the MOD will seriously have to consider swapping to the A for any further numbers of F-35 above the current 48 on order, as 48 x B's should be enough to equip both carriers plus OCU for the B...?

It would be mental to just stick with lots of B's......but this is the MOD we're talking about.
Although, they'd have to pay lots to upgrade the Air Tanker fleet for boom though to operate the A as well.

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Re: Germany buying new Typhoons, Super Hornets and Growlers

Post by FarnboroJohn »

GeeRam wrote:
Sun 20 Mar 2022, 12:17 pm
DOUGHNUT wrote:
Sun 20 Mar 2022, 10:14 am
The 15 Typhoon mentioned above are going to be instead of the EA-18G used in the ECR role, possibly two-seat aircraft. Given the cost of F-35 and its perception as being a "better" aircraft 50 F-35A = 90 Typhoon + 30 Super Hornet.
The 50 F-35A + 15 x EW role Eurofighters, are just replacement for their Tonka fleet.

They will still have the rest of their Eurofighter in the AD role, with the order for 38 x Tranche 4 Eurofighters signed for in 2019, to replace all their Tranche 1 Eurofighters, plus the Tranche 2+ aircraft gradually getting upgrades.

And yes, I suspect the MOD will seriously have to consider swapping to the A for any further numbers of F-35 above the current 48 on order, as 48 x B's should be enough to equip both carriers plus OCU for the B...?

It would be mental to just stick with lots of B's......but this is the MOD we're talking about.
Although, they'd have to pay lots to upgrade the Air Tanker fleet for boom though to operate the A as well.
They would but then they could also boom their P8s and eventual Wedgies. Even their own RC-135s....

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Re: Germany buying new Typhoons, Super Hornets and Growlers

Post by GeeRam »

FarnboroJohn wrote:
Sun 20 Mar 2022, 2:24 pm
GeeRam wrote:
Sun 20 Mar 2022, 12:17 pm
DOUGHNUT wrote:
Sun 20 Mar 2022, 10:14 am
The 15 Typhoon mentioned above are going to be instead of the EA-18G used in the ECR role, possibly two-seat aircraft. Given the cost of F-35 and its perception as being a "better" aircraft 50 F-35A = 90 Typhoon + 30 Super Hornet.
The 50 F-35A + 15 x EW role Eurofighters, are just replacement for their Tonka fleet.

They will still have the rest of their Eurofighter in the AD role, with the order for 38 x Tranche 4 Eurofighters signed for in 2019, to replace all their Tranche 1 Eurofighters, plus the Tranche 2+ aircraft gradually getting upgrades.

And yes, I suspect the MOD will seriously have to consider swapping to the A for any further numbers of F-35 above the current 48 on order, as 48 x B's should be enough to equip both carriers plus OCU for the B...?

It would be mental to just stick with lots of B's......but this is the MOD we're talking about.
Although, they'd have to pay lots to upgrade the Air Tanker fleet for boom though to operate the A as well.
They would but then they could also boom their P8s and eventual Wedgies. Even their own RC-135s....
And the C-17....

FarnboroJohn
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Re: Germany buying new Typhoons, Super Hornets and Growlers

Post by FarnboroJohn »

GeeRam wrote:
Sun 20 Mar 2022, 3:54 pm
FarnboroJohn wrote:
Sun 20 Mar 2022, 2:24 pm
GeeRam wrote:
Sun 20 Mar 2022, 12:17 pm
DOUGHNUT wrote:
Sun 20 Mar 2022, 10:14 am
The 15 Typhoon mentioned above are going to be instead of the EA-18G used in the ECR role, possibly two-seat aircraft. Given the cost of F-35 and its perception as being a "better" aircraft 50 F-35A = 90 Typhoon + 30 Super Hornet.
The 50 F-35A + 15 x EW role Eurofighters, are just replacement for their Tonka fleet.

They will still have the rest of their Eurofighter in the AD role, with the order for 38 x Tranche 4 Eurofighters signed for in 2019, to replace all their Tranche 1 Eurofighters, plus the Tranche 2+ aircraft gradually getting upgrades.

And yes, I suspect the MOD will seriously have to consider swapping to the A for any further numbers of F-35 above the current 48 on order, as 48 x B's should be enough to equip both carriers plus OCU for the B...?

It would be mental to just stick with lots of B's......but this is the MOD we're talking about.
Although, they'd have to pay lots to upgrade the Air Tanker fleet for boom though to operate the A as well.
They would but then they could also boom their P8s and eventual Wedgies. Even their own RC-135s....
And the C-17....
:thumbsup_tone1:

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Orion
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Re: Germany buying new Typhoons, Super Hornets and Growlers

Post by Orion »

I think the F-35A doesn't make any sense for the RAF. The F-35C will though because of the boom issue. It will also allow the RAF to use USN and French carriers

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Re: Germany buying new Typhoons, Super Hornets and Growlers

Post by verreli »

I thought Tempest was being accelerated and F-35 wasn't part of the long term RAF plan?

Also, not sure if the RAF could fly cat and trap. It would require significant training which the RAF are not equipped for - to fly off someone else's carriers.

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Re: Germany buying new Typhoons, Super Hornets and Growlers

Post by Seahornet »

verreli wrote:
Mon 21 Mar 2022, 7:13 pm
I thought Tempest was being accelerated and F-35 wasn't part of the long term RAF plan?

Also, not sure if the RAF could fly cat and trap. It would require significant training which the RAF are not equipped for - to fly off someone else's carriers.
The RAF have had carrier-capable fast jets before, without needing to use the capability. Phantom, and Buccaneer, of course....
And as the smart ship grew,
In stature, grace and hue,
In shadowy silent distance grew the iceberg too....

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Re: Germany buying new Typhoons, Super Hornets and Growlers

Post by DOUGHNUT »

I would agree with the option of F-35C as it simply allows refuelling operations to continue without extra changes. The RC-135 already have an agreed refuelling plan with USAF. RAF P-8 and C-17 do not currently AAR so adding that would incur additional crew training for a very limited service improvement. Not sure the USN use F-35C in the same way that we expect to use F-35B, ie in the strike attack role.