RIAT 2022 Discussion Thread

[Bodz156]

[/quote]

Quite - I do wonder if it is an all time low for RIAT though... I thought it was much better than that till I saw your list

and I think the show is a bit Highlightless

-Not that its adds to the types tally but what happened to the Czech Gripen? Cancelled/ Not confirmed yet / Nobody knows?
[/quote]

I'm assuming the Czech Gripen demo isn't coming at this stage (too busy on ops? )

I think to describe the event as "highlightless' is a bit of a stretch. The Black Eagles are the highlight of any UK event they attend while they're here. There's others (in my view) like the Austrian Typhoons (which in past years have been on wishlists regularly) & the Hungarian Mi-24 to name 2.

At the end of the day, if the AdlA & the USAF don't allocate any of their jet displays it's going to be down on types inevitably, there's no MiG-29 displays in Europe anymore it seems, & there'll be no Su-27 I'd imagine either. 2019 will have been our last view of the Romanian 21 I expect too. Italy don't display the Tornado anymore as I understand it. So there's very little variety in frontline, available, solo jet displays that can actually get allocated to shows like this going forward I'd say. What we have this year may be a taste of the future....

[BU7]

I don’t really buy into it being a bad line up, the variety and rarity this year is the best it’s been for quite a number of years, I can’t remember a year where we had this many RIAT debuts for types or air arm type, a lot of these are static displays admittedly.

But the flying has the 9 fast jet demos as mentioned and a debut for the Austrian QRA Demo, ok if we had the US F-35 & A-10 and the French had sent Air Force/navy Rafale’s I think we would all be pretty content, we were always going to struggle to get Eastern European jets in the display with current affairs, with a large proportions of jets involved in operational commitments I actually think we have done as well as we could have.

Where else are you going to see an A-4, Viggen, Draken, Sabre, U-2 and B-52, KC-46, AN30, F-35 on the ground together, and in the air 9 fast jet demos, 6 international display teams including the Korean Black Eagles, 6 helicopter displays alongside everything else displaying.

The line up is focused on quality and rarity! I think people need to take a bit of a reality check and appreciate how good this years line up is, rather than focusing on what could or isn’t there, let’s appreciate what we do have and thank the team for all the hard work they have put in. For me it’s a week off work and I’ll be getting my first proper fix of a military Airshow for 3 years, I’m really looking forward to it!

[Jimbo27]

I'm quietly confident that we haven't seen the last of the announcements yet; I think Peter and the team have done an excellent job! Can't wait!

[Andyph]

[

I'm assuming the Czech Gripen demo isn't coming at this stage (too busy on ops? )

I think to describe the event as "highlightless' is a bit of a stretch. The Black Eagles are the highlight of any UK event they attend while they're here. There's others (in my view) like the Austrian Typhoons (which in past years have been on wishlists regularly) & the Hungarian Mi-24 to name 2.

At the end of the day, if the AdlA & the USAF don't allocate any of their jet displays it's going to be down on types inevitably, there's no MiG-29 displays in Europe anymore it seems, & there'll be no Su-27 I'd imagine either. 2019 will have been our last view of the Romanian 21 I expect too. Italy don't display the Tornado anymore as I understand it. So there's very little variety in frontline, available, solo jet displays that can actually get allocated to shows like this going forward I'd say. What we have this year may be a taste of the future....

True - The French and USAF not sending fighter displays are huge losses for the show - no doubt.
Of course the French are fickle - some years great other not to be seen - sad as their 2 ship displays I think are the best around.
The USAF 75th is what is but feels as if the USAF didnt really buy into it that much...

It's not a complaint - just an observation!

[JMC]

These same words have been said in previous threads 'This is a glimpse into the future, it's missing a STAND out item, no USAF arghh' take a look RIAT 2013 same stuff was said.....

What was the stand out then? Static Mirages? and guess what, that show turned out to be a very enjoyable one! (Not a classic, but a nice gentle show).

If air arms are not able to allocate a certain display what do you expect DBH to do? Call up air forces and demand they send something else?

Realistically what else could we have expected that was a star item? Romanian Mig? (Only resumed flying so no chance), Ukrainian Fencer? (Ticked off from the get go), USAF demo teams (We've had them in 2016/17/18 (heritage)/19), JF-17? (Pakistan have said no), Buckeye? (Greece only seem to send Zeus)...

Of course you could say a Malaysian Flanker, Singaporean Eagles, Colombian Kfirs, Isreali Eagles, Blue Angels or Kazhakh Su-30's but what are the chances of them ever attending? I'd say next to no chance.

[Andyph]

If air arms are not able to allocate a certain display what do you expect DBH to do? Call up air forces and demand they send something else?

Realistically what else could we have expected that was a star item? Romanian Mig? (Only resumed flying so no chance), Ukrainian Fencer? (Ticked off from the get go), USAF demo teams (We've had them in 2016/17/18 (heritage)/19), JF-17? (Pakistan have said no), Buckeye? (Greece only seem to send Zeus)...

Of course you could say a Malaysian Flanker, Singaporean Eagles, Colombian Kfirs, Isreali Eagles, Blue Angels or Kazhakh Su-30's but what are the chances of them ever attending? I'd say next to no chance.

No! of course not. But it does mean it is not one of the strongest line ups though - IMO!

It's fine que sera sera

I feel people are very defensive when there is nothing really to defend

[Tommy]

Jets displaying..

RAF Typhoon demo
RAF F35B flyby
Italian Typhoon
Swiss F18
Spanish F18
Austrian Air power Demo x2 Typhoons
Greek F16
Belgian F16
Hungarian Gripen
Swedish Gripen

Think that is a pretty impressive line up of jet power to go on

So far 4 frontline fast jets types displaying and one type making a flypast.

How does that compare against RIAT's in the last decade?

2019 there must have been around 7 as we had the types that you mentioned plus the mig-21, flanker and spanish harriers.

2017 was a great year for front line fighters. Again we had the same types as this year plus f-22, rafale, mirage 2000, flanker, tornado. So thats around 9 types off the top of my head.

No doubt we are light in fighter types this year. Most previous years the US and French have provided good support in this department. Not sure whats changed in that department?

Thats not to take away from what looks to be a fabulous show. In my opinion a poor RIAT is still a great show (caveat: except the ones dogged by bad weather)!

Sure we are missing some significant players, no USAF teams, no French jets and eastern European ones (understandably).

Quite - I do wonder if it is an all time low for RIAT though...

In a crowded field, that might well be the single most laughably stupid thing posted in this thread all year.

On what possible basis is it a “low” point for anyone other than you? You may not like it, but don’t decry the show as a whole hitting a low point.

And tbh, what, pack it full of more dull grey Gripens, F-16s and Typhoons with very little cosmetic difference beyond roundels and squadron markings? Yawn.

FastJetBros, man. I’ll bet in any other year with four F-16 and four Typhoon displays you’d be complaining of lack of variety in fast jets.

[Andyph]

Jets displaying..

RAF Typhoon demo
RAF F35B flyby
Italian Typhoon
Swiss F18
Spanish F18
Austrian Air power Demo x2 Typhoons
Greek F16
Belgian F16
Hungarian Gripen
Swedish Gripen

Think that is a pretty impressive line up of jet power to go on

So far 4 frontline fast jets types displaying and one type making a flypast.

How does that compare against RIAT's in the last decade?

2019 there must have been around 7 as we had the types that you mentioned plus the mig-21, flanker and spanish harriers.

2017 was a great year for front line fighters. Again we had the same types as this year plus f-22, rafale, mirage 2000, flanker, tornado. So thats around 9 types off the top of my head.

No doubt we are light in fighter types this year. Most previous years the US and French have provided good support in this department. Not sure whats changed in that department?

Thats not to take away from what looks to be a fabulous show. In my opinion a poor RIAT is still a great show (caveat: except the ones dogged by bad weather)!

Sure we are missing some significant players, no USAF teams, no French jets and eastern European ones (understandably).

Quite - I do wonder if it is an all time low for RIAT though...

In a crowded field, that might well be the single most laughably stupid thing posted in this thread all year.

On what possible basis is it a “low” point for anyone other than you? You may not like it, but don’t decry the show as a whole hitting a low point.

And tbh, what, pack it full of more dull grey Gripens, F-16s and Typhoons with very little cosmetic difference beyond roundels and squadron markings? Yawn.

Why do you say that?

It was just a question - similar to asking what is the least amount of aircraft to attend?

I dont think you read my post - is 4 types of fast jets the lowest amount to display at Fairford - think you are off on a tangent?

[Tommy]

Yeh and it was a stupid question.

[JMC]

Not being defensive, i've learnt the hard way that the show will never meet up to the expectation of the dream airshow i've created in my head

[JMC]

Also to mention in the Black Eagles display in recent years they've included a small segment where the T-50 does a small solo with tight turns and burner!

[RAF4EVER]

Jets displaying..

RAF Typhoon demo
RAF F35B flyby
Italian Typhoon
Swiss F18
Spanish F18
Austrian Air power Demo x2 Typhoons
Greek F16
Belgian F16
Hungarian Gripen
Swedish Gripen

Think that is a pretty impressive line up of jet power to go on

So far 4 frontline fast jets types displaying and one type making a flypast.

How does that compare against RIAT's in the last decade?

2019 there must have been around 7 as we had the types that you mentioned plus the mig-21, flanker and spanish harriers.

2017 was a great year for front line fighters. Again we had the same types as this year plus f-22, rafale, mirage 2000, flanker, tornado. So thats around 9 types off the top of my head.

No doubt we are light in fighter types this year. Most previous years the US and French have provided good support in this department. Not sure whats changed in that department?

Thats not to take away from what looks to be a fabulous show. In my opinion a poor RIAT is still a great show (caveat: except the ones dogged by bad weather)!

Sure we are missing some significant players, no USAF teams, no French jets and eastern European ones (understandably).

Quite - I do wonder if it is an all time low for RIAT though...

In a crowded field, that might well be the single most laughably stupid thing posted in this thread all year.

On what possible basis is it a “low” point for anyone other than you? You may not like it, but don’t decry the show as a whole hitting a low point.

And tbh, what, pack it full of more dull grey Gripens, F-16s and Typhoons with very little cosmetic difference beyond roundels and squadron markings? Yawn.

FastJetBros, man. I’ll bet in any other year with four F-16 and four Typhoon displays you’d be complaining of lack of variety in fast jets.

It goes to prove that you just cannot satisfy everyone all the time.

[snicker01]

Yeh and it was a stupid question.

Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed? He made a legitimate point. It likely is the least amount of frontline fighters in the flying display.

Honestly, some people really do like to dictate the thoughts and minds of others and if unable to do so resort to belittling. Pathetic. I bet you wouldnt act like that face to face.

[CJS]

Maybe just for comparison could one of this year's nay sayers point out the better airshow? The one that's got all the stuff RIAT apparently is lacking?

It's a stellar line up with multiple highlights and masses of variety.

[Tommy]

Yeh and it was a stupid question.

Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed? He made a legitimate point. It likely is the least amount of frontline fighters in the flying display.

I don’t think it is a legitimate point - you can frame a question one way or another, but even the list is incomplete; the T-50 is also, in its FA-50 guise, also in frontline service with the Republic of Korea Air Force. To say nothing of it being a star item.

And even if the list was complete; on what metric is it a “low point”, which was the question? RIAT is never, nor should it, always be about after burning frontline fast jets and nothing else. It’s a disingenuous question that does a complete injustice to the remainder of the list.

I’m not dictating to anyone. People are perfectly entitled to their views (I haven’t moderated or deleted the comments nor banned the user), but I’m similarly allowed to express my opinion on theirs (and yours on mine, clearly).

It’s not belittling, AndyPH and I agree on numerous other issues (we got on very well numerous times in the COVID thread) - my comments were said without malice, but as a friend speaking to another unafraid to sugarcoat things. So yes, I would say it to his face, just as I’d hope he (or people I know and get on with) said the same to me if we’re discussing aircraft and I make a similarly stupid point.

[snicker01]

Maybe just for comparison could one of this year's nay sayers point out the better airshow? The one that's got all the stuff RIAT apparently is lacking?

It's a stellar line up with multiple highlights and masses of variety.

Not seen many nay sayers. Not seen anyone blame riat organisers or anyone else for that matter. I have only seen those who in their opinion feel that this year is a weaker line up than in previous years mainly because they prefer fighters.

Your point is obviously correct. Like a said previously, even a weaker RIAT is still a stellar show. There is such a gulf in quality between RIAT and other UK shows that it stands to reason that this years show will be better than any other show in the uk.

However, lets not bury our heads in the sand, whether it be due to political goings on, wars, brexit, there are participants missing this year that we have (wrongly may i add) come to take for granted.

[Tommy]

However, lets not bury our heads in the sand, whether it be due to political goings on, wars, brexit, there are participants missing this year that we have (wrongly may i add) come to take for granted.

This is fair - I’m looking forward to the PC-21 pair, but the Rafale and Turkish F-16 are missed no two ways about it. But two items don’t make or break an airshow, not anywhere close.

I’d still put this RIAT quite far ahead of others recently. Two Mi-24s in the flying display is insane in this day and age.

[snicker01]

Yeh and it was a stupid question.

Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed? He made a legitimate point. It likely is the least amount of frontline fighters in the flying display.

I don’t think it is a legitimate point - you can frame a question one way or another, but even the list is incomplete; the T-50 is also, in its FA-50 guise, also in frontline service with the Republic of Korea Air Force. To say nothing of it being a star item.

And even if the list was complete; on what metric is it a “low point”, which was the question? RIAT is never, nor should it, always be about after burning frontline fast jets and nothing else. It’s a disingenuous question that does a complete injustice to the remainder of the list.

I’m not dictating to anyone. People are perfectly entitled to their views (I haven’t moderated or deleted the comments nor banned the user), but I’m similarly allowed to express my opinion on theirs (and yours on mine, clearly).

It’s not belittling, AndyPH and I agree on numerous other issues (we got on very well numerous times in the COVID thread) - my comments were said without malice, but as a friend speaking to another unafraid to sugarcoat things. So yes, I would say it to his face, just as I’d hope he (or people I know and get on with) said the same to me if we’re discussing aircraft and I make a similarly stupid point.

He never said it was a low point. He suggested it was an all time low with regards to front line fighter types in the flying display. Perhaps you failed to understand his point?

With regards to your last statement, we will have to agree to disagree. Calling his question stupid just because you failed to understand the jist of his conversation is belittling. If you regard him as a friend then at least have the respect to apologise. You are a moderator after all, you should demand respect from those on the board, including yourself.

[speedbird2639]

I feel there may be some slight cross purposes on this thread. I think Andyph was querying was the number of frontline fast jets the lowest ever seen at RIAT rather than (paraphrasing) 'Is this the worst RIAT lineup we've ever been forced to endure?'

Not that it'll matter because for 95% of the people their as long as they see the Reds (well 7/9 of them) and the BBMF it'll be a successful airshow and they'll be happy.

Trying to satisfy 'spotters'/ enthusiasts is near impossible as some are interested in types, others in which air force the aircraft is from, others in buying patches from the air crews etc etc. A Venn diagram of interests of enthusiasts attending airshows would end up looking like a series on large barely connected dots scattered all over the page.

[Tommy]

He never said it was a low point. He suggested it was an all time low with regards to front line fighter types in the flying display. Perhaps you failed to understand his point?

I didn’t misunderstand it - I’ve already pointed out that even that point was wrong, because of the T-50/FA-50 point (unless one wants to split hairs, and then eliminate any twin-stick fighter type from the list).

[Bodz156]

Maybe just for comparison could one of this year's nay sayers point out the better airshow? The one that's got all the stuff RIAT apparently is lacking?

It's a stellar line up with multiple highlights and masses of variety.

Yeah, the only air show in Europe that can compare with RIAT this year in terms of the flying display would be Airpower at Zeltweg (and they don't really release an accurate list until a month before the event). The static is small there by comparison though. Would add I'm not a 'naysayer', love this year's RIAT line-up. It's hard to argue against the point about the variety of fast jets, as that's just counting...but I don't personally think it's that bad a thing anyway. A bit more variety instead of 4 Vipers & 4 Typhoons is welcome.

[snicker01]

He never said it was a low point. He suggested it was an all time low with regards to front line fighter types in the flying display. Perhaps you failed to understand his point?

I didn’t misunderstand it - I’ve already pointed out that even that point was wrong, because of the T-50/FA-50 point (unless one wants to split hairs, and then eliminate any twin-stick fighter type from the list).

But you get his point?

Surely 4 fighter types (5 if you include T50) is the lowest amount the show has seen.

The benchmark i personally use was the Leuchars show in 2000. For variety, this was by far the best show out with RIAT i have ever attended. As good as that show was though, it could never hold a candle to any RIAT I have attended. Until this year.

Please don't take this as ungrateful. This years show is looking on course to be great. Just not as good as previous years in my opinion.

Anyway, going to "Kris Kris Tofferson!" up now as i feel like i am repeating myself! Show looks great, as long as weather holds up and i don't get covid (or any other illness for that matter) between now and then, cant wait for show!

[CJS]

I think you may have misspelled "shut"

[Witchcraft24]

Not sure why there is this concentration on fighter types ? I’ve been attending since 1998 and this year I finally get to see Austrian Typhoons!
The Rafale and USAF stuff will be back, but the Austrians? Not so sure….

There seems to be a lack of interest in the helicopters on this thread , yet when the Czech demo attended Biggin Hill and Sanicole, people on here were wetting themselves. Little mention of the Hungarian Mil and Polish Sokol on here - both demos that have had people screaming “why not RIAT?” in the past, when appearing elsewhere.

“No star item”…. So the Koreans, the best display team I have ever seen, are almost dismissed here by some because they turned up once before.

And the immediate questioning of why an Air Force isn’t sending X, because RIAT has secured Y, baffles me….

No show for three years and a war in Ukraine - but all some people want to look at is what isn’t coming rather all the stuff that is ?

[snicker01]

I think you may have misspelled "shut"

Not sure what happened there!