Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022
Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022
https://www.raf.mod.uk/news/articles/ro ... at-in-2022
As confirmed by the RAF and noticed by eagle-eyed AvGeeks!
As confirmed by the RAF and noticed by eagle-eyed AvGeeks!
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022
Will they have time to switch the formation's to a 2012 type display with the formations splitting as Enid and synchro pair?
- tankbuster81
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022
I've never known this occur before? I wonder which pilots? I know Bondy has returned for 2022
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022
Suprised to see this, I am assuming it is a pilot issue? Have a couple of display pilots dropped out ? Or more likely is it to save money, will it be a permanant move?
Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022
1 pilot has been sent home for being drunk while they are practicing in Greece and another one suspended due to inappropriate behaviour.RAF are carrying out extensive enquiry apparently and obviously not enough time to train 2 more pilots.
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022
The tabloid press seem to be running stories about the "scandal" this morning but with little detail......
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022
"moved to other roles within the RAF. " - as you do !!
“The best computer is a man, and it’s the only one that can be mass-produced by unskilled labour.”
Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022
Grateful to Brian in the Interesting Internet thread for catching it:
Pen Pusher wrote: ↑Sat 14 May 2022, 4:50 amhttps://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... viour.htmlThe RAF is investigating the Red Arrows over allegations of drinking, it has emerged.
Sources claim one pilot has been sent home from Greece, where the famous aerobatic display team is training.
An insider claimed: ‘There is a huge under-the-table inquiry going on. It’s to do with alcohol and suspected inappropriate behaviour. The head of the RAF is personally involved in the Red Arrows probe.’
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022
A similar thing happened in 2012, and Kirsty had to leave the team very sadly (albeit for for much more justifiable reasons, iirc).
I think they must need an odd number, because it was one pilot who left in both cases, yet the team dropped down to seven both in 2012 and this year.
I think they must need an odd number, because it was one pilot who left in both cases, yet the team dropped down to seven both in 2012 and this year.
But then again, when it rains, it pours!
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022
It seems to be felt that it is not possible / safe to bring in another pilot, however experienced, except possibly near the very start of training.
So, unless they change to having two pilots cover each position there will always be a problem if one or more drops (or is kicked) out for whatever reason.
Does the P de F for example operate in the same way?
So, unless they change to having two pilots cover each position there will always be a problem if one or more drops (or is kicked) out for whatever reason.
Does the P de F for example operate in the same way?
Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022
Sleeping with the (married) boss, and then lying about it to an enquiry, IIRC. And then becoming the only Red Arrows pilot in the history of the team to walk away mid-season.
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022
It did lead to some good newspaper headlines IIRC. "Reach for the flies" was one of the better ones!
Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022
Guys, if you're going to discuss things like that can we keep to the facts please.
The inquiry in 2011 took no action against Kirsty or Ben, closing the matter at that point. Kirsty then left the team in 2012 due to stress from the loss in quick succession of Jon Egging and Sean Cunningham.
The team have already had to replace a member of the team earlier this year when Damo Green had to step back for family matters, he was replaced by Bondy.
The issue now is likely going to be that it is too late to bring someone else in as they are halfway through Springhawk. At a time that RAF fast jet pilots are very busy operationally with QRA, training Qatari pilots, operating in Syria, and the enhanced NATO Policing patrol which is being flown directly from Lossiemouth, Coningsby and Marham on a daily basis - crews just aren't available.
Apart from one article in a tabloid that is known for not publishing the truth, all we know is that the team are performing as a 7 ship. I'm sure the results of any inquiry will be published in the fullness of time but right now we don't actually know what has really happened - I certainly don't believe a word the Daily Mail writes.
Andy
The inquiry in 2011 took no action against Kirsty or Ben, closing the matter at that point. Kirsty then left the team in 2012 due to stress from the loss in quick succession of Jon Egging and Sean Cunningham.
The team have already had to replace a member of the team earlier this year when Damo Green had to step back for family matters, he was replaced by Bondy.
The issue now is likely going to be that it is too late to bring someone else in as they are halfway through Springhawk. At a time that RAF fast jet pilots are very busy operationally with QRA, training Qatari pilots, operating in Syria, and the enhanced NATO Policing patrol which is being flown directly from Lossiemouth, Coningsby and Marham on a daily basis - crews just aren't available.
Apart from one article in a tabloid that is known for not publishing the truth, all we know is that the team are performing as a 7 ship. I'm sure the results of any inquiry will be published in the fullness of time but right now we don't actually know what has really happened - I certainly don't believe a word the Daily Mail writes.
Andy
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022
It will be interesting to see how honestly David Montenegro's forthcoming official history of the Reds will tackle events such as Kirsty and Ben...
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022
A 'blow by blow' account you mean?Bluebird Mike wrote: ↑Sat 14 May 2022, 6:05 pmIt will be interesting to see how honestly David Montenegro's forthcoming official history of the Reds will tackle events such as Kirsty and Ben...
I'll be interested in reading about the time Monty flew his plane into Mike Ling's. Didn't seem to harm his career!
Pablo O Grady came back at very short notice as Red 6 after the Synchro crash, and that was when they were Springhawk training.Thoughtful_Flyer wrote: ↑Sat 14 May 2022, 12:05 pmIt seems to be felt that it is not possible / safe to bring in another pilot, however experienced, except possibly near the very start of training
Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022
If there was a will to provide a full complement of 9 jets then I'm sure that could be done? It all rather depends on the positions within the 9 jet formation that have been vacated. They've indicated there will still be a full nine a/c for Ceremonial Fly-overs, with just 7 for displays.
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022
Wrong, they have flown as an 8 (even number) ship before. See when Gary Waterfall broke his leg or foot in (I think) '97. Normally they claim that they can adapt from nine to eight at very short notice, unless it is Red 1 dropping out. Also they had that visit to the Netherlands when they flew a four ship (only te Gypo thing) when after the death of Egging and Cunningham another pilot from Enid arrived sick.
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022
They also flew as an eight ship for a display or two on their North America tour a few years ago when Red 2 Flight Lieutenant Damo Green flew home for the birth of his child
Don't know about those jets ,they spoil a very nice place
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022
2019 Dunsfold - eight
20190615 (206)_The_Red_Arrows by John Dixon, on Flickr
They've done it when necessary on occasion.
But the rules have got tighter over the years, so what was do-able in the past may not be now. Or perhaps it is no longer felt that quantity has a quality all its own, or an asymmetric formation doesn't look right (is that what kept the rotte/kette out of the RAF early in WWII?)
20190615 (206)_The_Red_Arrows by John Dixon, on Flickr
They've done it when necessary on occasion.
But the rules have got tighter over the years, so what was do-able in the past may not be now. Or perhaps it is no longer felt that quantity has a quality all its own, or an asymmetric formation doesn't look right (is that what kept the rotte/kette out of the RAF early in WWII?)
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022
Back in 2012 they displayed a 2 ship display, Syncro pair only at Portrush, Northern Ireland due to multiple incidents.
https://aerobaticteams.net/en/news/i104 ... trush.html
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern- ... t-19532386
https://aerobaticteams.net/en/news/i104 ... trush.html
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern- ... t-19532386
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022
I don't want to sound ignorant, so I will, but if one of these pilots is part of the synchro pair wouldn't it have a big impact on the display? Or are we at a stage where they can rearrange training to keep a synchro pair if this were the case?
Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022
Re: 7/8 ship displays.
I’ve seen plenty of 8 aircraft displays but not 7.
The team practice every year to display whilst a team member is missing, they just fly with a gap in the formation as they all form off of Red 1.
Indeed, their first display post COVID last year was an 8 ship as aircraft had gone tech!
The difference this year is eagle eyed spotters noticed that the 8 ship formation being flown (now 7) during Springhawk had been deliberately modified to reflect the reduced number of aircraft. (No gaps and a symmetrical formation) making it appear tbe 8-ship was a deliberate change - not practicing for a contingency.
As for if there is a synchrog pair this yeah - no IdeArt
I’ve seen plenty of 8 aircraft displays but not 7.
The team practice every year to display whilst a team member is missing, they just fly with a gap in the formation as they all form off of Red 1.
Indeed, their first display post COVID last year was an 8 ship as aircraft had gone tech!
The difference this year is eagle eyed spotters noticed that the 8 ship formation being flown (now 7) during Springhawk had been deliberately modified to reflect the reduced number of aircraft. (No gaps and a symmetrical formation) making it appear tbe 8-ship was a deliberate change - not practicing for a contingency.
As for if there is a synchrog pair this yeah - no IdeArt
Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022
The 2012 season was a 7-ship display, as has been mentioned.
Re the 7/8-ship, I know that they have displayed with 8, but it usually leaves a very noticeable gap in the formation, I was wondering if they perhaps needed an odd number when working up for the entire season (rather than occasions of pilot sickness), as that appears to be what happened in 2012. But the video I posted a week or so ago, showed 8 aircraft.
In any event, it’s moot, according to the DM, it’s two pilots who have been moved on anyway.
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- tankbuster81
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022
I'm looking forward to the (Whiskey) Barrell rolls, and the Diamond (white) formations.
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Re: Red Arrows - Seven aircraft display 2022
Not the DM, direct from RAFAT page "as two of our formation pilots have moved to other roles within the RAF. "Tommy wrote: ↑Mon 16 May 2022, 8:42 amThe 2012 season was a 7-ship display, as has been mentioned.
Re the 7/8-ship, I know that they have displayed with 8, but it usually leaves a very noticeable gap in the formation, I was wondering if they perhaps needed an odd number when working up for the entire season (rather than occasions of pilot sickness), as that appears to be what happened in 2012. But the video I posted a week or so ago, showed 8 aircraft.
In any event, it’s moot, according to the DM, it’s two pilots who have been moved on anyway.
“The best computer is a man, and it’s the only one that can be mass-produced by unskilled labour.”