Displaying with drop tanks - why?

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CJS
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Displaying with drop tanks - why?

Post by CJS »

I think I asked this once before but possibly it got lost in the forum re-boot recently...

Been looking back at some RIAT photos and it occurred to me that the RAF Typhoon always (or at least often) displays with it's drop tank attached. The Ramex Delta did too. Given that they are only airborne for a very short time (if displaying at Fairford I mean) and clearly therefore don't need the extra fuel, why would they not remove the tanks and end up with a more aerodynamic aircraft, better suited to aerobatics (and which would presumably also burn less fuel and therefore be cheaper)?

I don't know about the Mirage, but pretty sure the Typhoon's is indeed a 'drop' tank - from memory when BAE have displayed the Typhoon in the past it doesn't carry it (although it does carry dummy weapons).

The RAFAT also display with the tank on the Hawk but I think that might hold something to do with the coloured smoke?

As usual, I probably have much of the above either totally or partially incorrect :grimacing: :see_no_evil:

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Re: Displaying with drop tanks - why?

Post by boff180 »

With the Reds it’s where the dye is stored for the smoke.

With the Typhoon their display is worked up with a centreline tank installed to allow for maximum display radius from their operating base - sometimes two displays a day.

They only tend to remove the tanks when operating from the location for a weekend eg: Fairford.

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Re: Displaying with drop tanks - why?

Post by Bodz156 »

Think in the case of Ramex/Couteau Delta, I remember hearing one of their display commentators say that they keep them on to help keep the speed down below Mach 1 during their display. Can't remember if I heard it at a RIAT or somewhere else....

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Re: Displaying with drop tanks - why?

Post by capercaillie »

There is an element of drag in the case of many slippery types.
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Re: Displaying with drop tanks - why?

Post by Seahornet »

boff180 wrote:
Thu 26 May 2022, 2:16 pm
With the Reds it’s where the dye is stored for the smoke.

...and, it's not a drop tank, it's a modified gun pod.

The Frecce always seem to display with 2 drop tanks on each a/c. (Whilst they carry 4 tanks for transit flights.)
Are these smoke-related too?
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Re: Displaying with drop tanks - why?

Post by st24 »

boff180 wrote:
Thu 26 May 2022, 2:16 pm
With the Reds it’s where the dye is stored for the smoke.

With the Typhoon their display is worked up with a centreline tank installed to allow for maximum display radius from their operating base - sometimes two displays a day.

They only tend to remove the tanks when operating from the location for a weekend eg: Fairford.
Apart from the very early days I can't recall a RAF Typhoon display without the centreline tank - they never remove them when displaying away from home base. Sometimes a tank(s) helps with shifting CofG and can benefit some maneuvering and also add drag which again can increase thrust settings for a noisier display. Odd how neither the Italians, Spanish or the ad hoc German displays use them though.

As for the Mirage 2000 displays, these weren't aerobatic displays but tactical demos so a representative load out, albeit tanks adds to the look, the Rafale pair demos do the same but with added impact (! :kissing: )
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Re: Displaying with drop tanks - why?

Post by st24 »

Seahornet wrote:
Thu 26 May 2022, 6:52 pm
boff180 wrote:
Thu 26 May 2022, 2:16 pm
With the Reds it’s where the dye is stored for the smoke.

...and, it's not a drop tank, it's a modified gun pod.

The Frecce always seem to display with 2 drop tanks on each a/c. (Whilst they carry 4 tanks for transit flights.)
Are these smoke-related too?
They are yes, as are the Al Fursan jets. Quite a sight to see them with the tip tanks too - going straight into a practice display with a set of 6 bags...
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Re: Displaying with drop tanks - why?

Post by Tommy »

st24 wrote:
Thu 26 May 2022, 9:14 pm
boff180 wrote:
Thu 26 May 2022, 2:16 pm
With the Reds it’s where the dye is stored for the smoke.

With the Typhoon their display is worked up with a centreline tank installed to allow for maximum display radius from their operating base - sometimes two displays a day.

They only tend to remove the tanks when operating from the location for a weekend eg: Fairford.
Apart from the very early days I can't recall a RAF Typhoon display without the centreline tank - they never remove them when displaying away from home base.
Very rare, but there are a few times the Typhoon has displayed clean at RIAT, 2019 from memory, but I think there have been others, too.

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Re: Displaying with drop tanks - why?

Post by Del »

There's a video on youtube where James Sainty give a tour of the display Typhoon and explains about the centre tank at about 3:30

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Re: Displaying with drop tanks - why?

Post by DOUGHNUT »

When solo jet display aircraft arrive with drop tanks guess its sometimes easier to fly the display with them because they dont have ground crew with the correct equipment to remove them ?

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Re: Displaying with drop tanks - why?

Post by CJS »

DOUGHNUT wrote:
Fri 27 May 2022, 11:27 am
When solo jet display aircraft arrive with drop tanks guess its sometimes easier to fly the display with them because they dont have ground crew with the correct equipment to remove them ?
Surely the pilot can just press a button to get them off 🙈
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Re: Displaying with drop tanks - why?

Post by Cole »

CJS wrote:
Fri 27 May 2022, 11:48 am
DOUGHNUT wrote:
Fri 27 May 2022, 11:27 am
When solo jet display aircraft arrive with drop tanks guess its sometimes easier to fly the display with them because they dont have ground crew with the correct equipment to remove them ?
Surely the pilot can just press a button to get them off 🙈
They could make it a party game!

Peg the Droptank to the spotter? :crazy_face:
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Re: Displaying with drop tanks - why?

Post by CJS »

Cole wrote:
Fri 27 May 2022, 11:54 am
CJS wrote:
Fri 27 May 2022, 11:48 am
DOUGHNUT wrote:
Fri 27 May 2022, 11:27 am
When solo jet display aircraft arrive with drop tanks guess its sometimes easier to fly the display with them because they dont have ground crew with the correct equipment to remove them ?
Surely the pilot can just press a button to get them off 🙈
They could make it a party game!

Peg the Droptank to the spotter? :crazy_face:
Ha! In all (or at least some) seriousness - DOUGHNUT I would have thought that the Typhoon display team - wherever they were - would always consist of more than just the pilot. If flying direct from Coningsby obviously that's different but if, say, they are displaying at Eastbourne at based at Bournemouth for the weekend, their own crew would be there, wouldn't they? Likewise at RIAT.
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Re: Displaying with drop tanks - why?

Post by FarnboroJohn »

CJS wrote:
Fri 27 May 2022, 12:14 pm
Cole wrote:
Fri 27 May 2022, 11:54 am
CJS wrote:
Fri 27 May 2022, 11:48 am
DOUGHNUT wrote:
Fri 27 May 2022, 11:27 am
When solo jet display aircraft arrive with drop tanks guess its sometimes easier to fly the display with them because they dont have ground crew with the correct equipment to remove them ?
Surely the pilot can just press a button to get them off 🙈
They could make it a party game!

Peg the Droptank to the spotter? :crazy_face:
Ha! In all (or at least some) seriousness - DOUGHNUT I would have thought that the Typhoon display team - wherever they were - would always consist of more than just the pilot. If flying direct from Coningsby obviously that's different but if, say, they are displaying at Eastbourne at based at Bournemouth for the weekend, their own crew would be there, wouldn't they? Likewise at RIAT.
I'd agree with that, even at RAF Odiham's Families Day last year when the rubber band broke on the Typhoon for its original slot they fixed it in time to close the show. Somebody there had to know what they were about!

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Re: Displaying with drop tanks - why?

Post by bizfreeq »

FarnboroJohn wrote:
Fri 27 May 2022, 6:51 pm
CJS wrote:
Fri 27 May 2022, 12:14 pm
Cole wrote:
Fri 27 May 2022, 11:54 am
CJS wrote:
Fri 27 May 2022, 11:48 am
DOUGHNUT wrote:
Fri 27 May 2022, 11:27 am
When solo jet display aircraft arrive with drop tanks guess its sometimes easier to fly the display with them because they dont have ground crew with the correct equipment to remove them ?
Surely the pilot can just press a button to get them off 🙈
They could make it a party game!

Peg the Droptank to the spotter? :crazy_face:
Ha! In all (or at least some) seriousness - DOUGHNUT I would have thought that the Typhoon display team - wherever they were - would always consist of more than just the pilot. If flying direct from Coningsby obviously that's different but if, say, they are displaying at Eastbourne at based at Bournemouth for the weekend, their own crew would be there, wouldn't they? Likewise at RIAT.
I'd agree with that, even at RAF Odiham's Families Day last year when the rubber band broke on the Typhoon for its original slot they fixed it in time to close the show. Somebody there had to know what they were about!
We have hosted the RAF Typhoon display team a few times where I work, here at Bournemouth, and they bring a basic supply of parts as a kit, and a team (hence that being in the name) of ground crew to sort out any tech issues. They can generally have a part dropped in by road, should they not have it with them, in a few hours, direct from Conningsby. Worst case scenario, another Typhoon is flown down to join the other two so keeping a spare and an active whilst the really broken one is fixed.

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