Cosford 2022 - your thoughts

Forum for information about the annual show at RAF Cosford
UKTopgun
UKAR Supporter
Posts: 1360
Joined: Sat 19 Dec 2009, 10:16 pm

Re: Cosford 2022 - your thoughts

Post by UKTopgun »

As others have noted, the F-35 is a relatively small and quiet fast jet.
I never go to Cosford, it's a long way with petrol prices as they are now.
Shows like this are very valuable in the calendar though, so all the best for the organisers for 2023.

Woodford_was_wicked
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat 07 May 2022, 7:24 pm

Re: Cosford 2022 - your thoughts

Post by Woodford_was_wicked »

cg_341 wrote:
Mon 13 Jun 2022, 10:13 pm
I've heard, though I can't confirm, that no matter how stealthy the F-35 is it still makes one hell of a mess when it ploughs through an airliner as it's doing a rapid climb through controlled, and busy, airspace.

In seriousness though, a rapid climb may have been requested and planned subject to ATC approval based on other air traffic in the area and above.

Fairford also has (had?) this issue with aircraft needing to climb above a certain height as part of their display needing approval from London AC.
That does sound like a reasonable reason to deny the request but I'm still grumpy about it!

F35s have radar, just give the pilot a heads up that there's a jumbo cessnajet up ahead and tell them to miss it. You never know, if an F35 flies past the window of an airliner at only 50ft separation you might even get a couple of kids to look up from their iPads for a few seconds!

Mike
Posts: 2763
Joined: Sun 31 Aug 2008, 5:08 pm

Re: Cosford 2022 - your thoughts

Post by Mike »

UKTopgun wrote:
Mon 13 Jun 2022, 10:15 pm
As others have noted, the F-35 is a relatively small and quiet fast jet.
Have you ever been to LN and seen (and heard) them operating? “Quiet” is one thing they aren’t.

User avatar
Jonnym
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu 23 Apr 2015, 8:16 pm

Re: Cosford 2022 - your thoughts

Post by Jonnym »

Woodford_was_wicked wrote:
Mon 13 Jun 2022, 10:52 pm
cg_341 wrote:
Mon 13 Jun 2022, 10:13 pm
I've heard, though I can't confirm, that no matter how stealthy the F-35 is it still makes one hell of a mess when it ploughs through an airliner as it's doing a rapid climb through controlled, and busy, airspace.

In seriousness though, a rapid climb may have been requested and planned subject to ATC approval based on other air traffic in the area and above.

Fairford also has (had?) this issue with aircraft needing to climb above a certain height as part of their display needing approval from London AC.
That does sound like a reasonable reason to deny the request but I'm still grumpy about it!

F35s have radar, just give the pilot a heads up that there's a jumbo cessnajet up ahead and tell them to miss it. You never know, if an F35 flies past the window of an airliner at only 50ft separation you might even get a couple of kids to look up from their iPads for a few seconds!
And I can imagine the headline on the morning rags too! 😅

JMC
Posts: 1336
Joined: Fri 11 Mar 2022, 10:50 am

Re: Cosford 2022 - your thoughts

Post by JMC »

The F35 and quiet are two sentences I never thought would go hand in hand. That thing in afterburner (even as a jet fan) can be sickly loud.

User avatar
CJS
Posts: 8824
Joined: Thu 15 Jul 2010, 3:30 pm
Location: Hogwarts

Re: Cosford 2022 - your thoughts

Post by CJS »

Loud jets can certainly be quiet too - remember how the great tin triangle could do a fly past and you'd barely hear it, but could also rattle the teeth out of your mouth if it wanted.
You can't polish a turd, but you can roll it in glitter.

User avatar
Adraruro
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu 14 Jun 2018, 10:09 am

Re: Cosford 2022 - your thoughts

Post by Adraruro »

jasonT1981 wrote:
Mon 13 Jun 2022, 9:46 pm
I forgot, those damn orange netting.

I walked down to the Cosford Club enclosure, only to be met with the net, had to track backwards and to the other side just to get back to where I was. There was no reason why it needed a divide. The way it was laid out was baffling.
The orange netting was defining the emergency lanes rather than being a pointless divide. Not well signed, as I did the same, but there for an important reason in getting vehicles promptly to any incident without crowds, picnic blankets and chairs in the way - so those who sat in them as a nice empty space pretty much defeated that purpose.

So things the show could learn, have breaks in the fencing to enable passage through and/or make it a lot more obvious they are for emergencies and meant to be kept clear.

User avatar
G-CVIX
Posts: 2391
Joined: Mon 01 Sep 2008, 7:39 pm
Location: Falmouth
Contact:

Re: Cosford 2022 - your thoughts

Post by G-CVIX »

My first event in nearly three years so I enjoyed myself.

My only real complaints were:

"Cosford FM" - I know music taste is subjective but it felt like we heard the same song over and over again until (thankfully) the commentary team took over. Top Gun is out - there plenty of excuses to play some aviation themed bangers! I do appreciate that they tried to talk about aviation/the airshow but the music and chatter was too much for me personally.

The positioning of the C-130, PC-9, Puma and Pucara were poor for photography.

The flying display was decent. It could have done with a couple more warbirds and I am really missing classic jets but overall it was good. The vintage helicopters were fantastic.

On an unrelated note, I really don't care for that typhoon scheme. I think all over black with Union Jack canards would have been more striking. As it is I think it looks a bit like literature for a certain defunct political party, but each to their own!

Regarding the food prices, we brought our own picnic and drinks. My partner had a coffee and cake for £5 and we later shared portion of fries for £3 so no complaints here.

UKTopgun
UKAR Supporter
Posts: 1360
Joined: Sat 19 Dec 2009, 10:16 pm

Re: Cosford 2022 - your thoughts

Post by UKTopgun »

Mike wrote:
Tue 14 Jun 2022, 6:33 am
UKTopgun wrote:
Mon 13 Jun 2022, 10:15 pm
As others have noted, the F-35 is a relatively small and quiet fast jet.
Have you ever been to LN and seen (and heard) them operating? “Quiet” is one thing they aren’t.
I go to LN a lot and last time where I was positioned, the F15s seemed louder than the F35s but they all seem noisier / quieter depending on where you are admittedly.

Flare Path
Posts: 3147
Joined: Wed 07 Dec 2011, 8:53 pm

Re: Cosford 2022 - your thoughts

Post by Flare Path »

Very enjoyable show and not hampered (IMO) - to the extreme - by some gaps in the flying, discussed here. In addition, an eclectic mix of aircraft engaged everyone through to the conclusion, even after the Red Arrows had displayed. I didn't feel the likes of Wingwalkers or Blades were missed, despite some comments.

- The contribution by Historic Helicopters was well appreciated and all credit to them for offering one of the best displays all afternoon in their Wessex. Nice to see the Lynx too.

- BAF F-16; one of the best displays I think I've seen from that aircraft. Wow.

- Great to see the F-35, although I expected a bit more after what had been discussed at the pilots brief and then relayed through the commentary. I can only assume something changed?

- If they still offer the best flying display award, hopefully that goes to the Chipmunk pair. Beautiful.

- Loved the Rafale entrance. Got a few 'Woos' from the crowd. :grin:

Good show, plenty to build on - a Hind or two would be good next year. :thumbsup:

Mike
Posts: 2763
Joined: Sun 31 Aug 2008, 5:08 pm

Re: Cosford 2022 - your thoughts

Post by Mike »

Flare Path wrote:
Tue 14 Jun 2022, 11:07 am
- If they still offer the best flying display award, hopefully that goes to the Chipmunk pair. Beautiful.
They do. It was awarded to the Belgian F-16

JonG96
Posts: 146
Joined: Wed 18 May 2016, 10:13 am

Re: Cosford 2022 - your thoughts

Post by JonG96 »

Mike wrote:
Tue 14 Jun 2022, 12:35 pm
Flare Path wrote:
Tue 14 Jun 2022, 11:07 am
- If they still offer the best flying display award, hopefully that goes to the Chipmunk pair. Beautiful.
They do. It was awarded to the Belgian F-16
Very much deserved. Hope they can secure it again for next year. Love to see it again.

User avatar
st24
Posts: 8154
Joined: Mon 01 Sep 2008, 9:31 am
Location: Sexville

Re: Cosford 2022 - your thoughts

Post by st24 »

As usual, late to the party..

So nice to be back at Cosford- still sobering to think it's the only military air show in the UK! Thanks to Old Warden and Duxford I kept my mojo going over lockdown and ventured to France/Belgium last year as well as La ferte the other weekend so I haven't been airshow-starved like many. But still good to be at an international event on home soil.
It's my local and has been a guaranteed family day out for as long as I can remember and this year was no exception.
Entry was straightforward - I know some back lanes that get us very close to the entrance so no hassle. As ever, always leave it until last minute to leave - about 7.15, home with a Shiraz just gone 8.

My major gripe with the show site was the lack of Jaguars! Cosford shows, with their open hangars crammed with jets clunking and clanging undergoing static tests, being opened up and peered at by the great unwashed with eager technicians to talk shop and the smell of oil and fuel and grease was always a major draw for me. It felt like "the old days" ; I could have been at Abingdon or Coningsby, or Finningley or St Athan or Brawdy etc etc - the atmosphere was the same. This year however aeroplanes took a back seat and the hangars resembled the NEC with high tech STEM displays, VR interactive sessions, robots and drones - I know it's the future but it may have well been the local college or Uni open day. It just felt stale...
Decent smattering of static but, as others have said very disjointed. Herc was an odd exhibit given as there's one stuck in the museum and I just knew the Puma would be dumped. The revetment area was okay (anyone see the number of Scarlet Tiger Moths up there?!) but I'm sure many missed it as there was nothing to point you in that direction -again as said, the taxiway to there should have been full of Jags..
I do like Devons and Pembrokes but you'd think there'd be other things that could have been dragged out for a change - bizarre seeing the museum's Chippy and Bulldog out too given the number of airworthy examples in unit markings.
The falklands display was poor - BN and the Harrier should have been out and why oh why weren't the wings on the Pucara? No G-HUEY? Bonkers...And topped off by the RN recruiting van plonked in the middle of it.
Quite good to see the Trago Mills - one machine that I thought I'd never see again after a few distant Farnborough shows. The vintage/Jubilee village was nice.

Flying wise mostly good but fairly notable gaps that the commentators kept filling in for (admirably I admit!) and there was a feeling of what will happen next given the programme was all over the shop.
Belgian F-16 was incredible - a 42 year old jet trouncing the "new" boys (both Tiff and Rafale now 15 years + of course) with a fabulous display - that outside split S is insane. Rafale "felt" better at La Ferte and Typhoon laboured, admittedly early in the season but not the best but did like the final climb and his subsequent entry into the Lichfield corridor- very slick! The syncro pair is always a delight with the baby Spit. Said Spitfire's energetic solo display surprised me - 2 full loops added to the usual canadian breaks and barrel "victory" rolls. Reds just don't cut it with 7 jets and the routine lacked oomph. F-35 needed a burner pass as a finale, though the hovering is always going to be a show-stopper. Catalina and P-51 appeared to be displaying over Bridgnorth, very odd from the former that usually relishes smaller venues with a nice close display. The Lanc was much missed - my daughters love that old girl so going tech didn't go down well, particularly as we've had it flyover home quite a lot recently. One wonders how much more crazy Rich Goodwin will be when he straps a jet engine or two onto his new Pitts - 500HP obviously not enough of a donkey for him, brilliant, again. I love the way he just hops out on landing in his Grey wranglers, trainers and t-shirt like he's just walking to the shop rather than wringing eye watering amounts of G from a tiny biplane. Crowd loved it and applauded him generously- in fact the crowd were great, every act even if they were not on the deck and out of ear shot was applauded, even cheered and hooped an hollered in subdued British fashion - this ain't 'Merica after all...Very encouraging and underlining how much we've all missed this kind of thing.
As m'learned colleague Mr C said the choppers caught the light (A109 really is tame without flares), big red hand Chinook, new scheme Tutor, very tidy glider aerobatics, a 25Sqn Hawk and no Team Raven - a decent day out in my book and my group loved every minute.
An £18 round for 4 small drinks at the pilot's mess stung somewhat though but hey:- airshows are back !
You caaan't trust the system... Maaan!

Martin77
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed 15 Jun 2022, 5:51 pm

Re: Cosford 2022 - your thoughts

Post by Martin77 »

Better than I'd hoped for when I looked at the line-up. Bit disappointed that the Lanc was once again a no-show. The Reds were mysteriously only a seven ship and there are interesting theories doing the rounds as to why. I normally do this show by train from New St in Birmingham but I did a coach job this year. The traffic was a bit dodgy but when you've been to the Barcelona Grand-prix on the same day as Barcelona are playing at home Cosfords a breeze!
It was just lovely to be back.

User avatar
DerekF
Posts: 5198
Joined: Sun 07 Sep 2008, 7:54 am
Location: Handforth, Cheshire, UK

Re: Cosford 2022 - your thoughts

Post by DerekF »

One other thing I noticed was the complete lack of a mobile signal all day. Not that I spend all day on the phone but for keeping loved ones informed or finding friends it was pretty useless. It might be a network thing (I'm with EE) but in 2022, the lack of any sort of mobile signal or wifi is a bit of an issue.

Stu666
Posts: 126
Joined: Sat 27 Sep 2008, 5:14 pm

Re: Cosford 2022 - your thoughts

Post by Stu666 »

JMC wrote:
Tue 14 Jun 2022, 7:01 am
The F35 and quiet are two sentences I never thought would go hand in hand. That thing in afterburner (even as a jet fan) can be sickly loud.
Agreed, having seen an F-35 display, it is incredibly loud. Admittedly, I'd forgotten just how loud it was in the hover and was pleasantly reminded on Sunday. I thought the initial pass was strangely quiet as far as F-35s go, can only put this down to wind direction. The wind was blowing pretty strongly away from us across the runway. A touch of the burner would've sufficed; I am still mystified as to why it wasn't employed?
DerekF wrote:
Wed 15 Jun 2022, 9:07 pm
One other thing I noticed was the complete lack of a mobile signal all day. Not that I spend all day on the phone but for keeping loved ones informed or finding friends it was pretty useless. It might be a network thing (I'm with EE) but in 2022, the lack of any sort of mobile signal or wifi is a bit of an issue.
I am also with EE (via Plusnet) and found I had 4G signal for much of the day, but annoyingly it was a case of "connected, no Internet". The odd message did get through here and there, but pretty much gave up in the end. To be fair, I did see comms from the Cosford team warning of the likelihood of poor signal days in advance.

User avatar
spellow3010
Posts: 605
Joined: Wed 17 Sep 2014, 1:12 pm

Re: Cosford 2022 - your thoughts

Post by spellow3010 »

That F-16 display should live very long in the memory - the colour scheme too. Display of the day for me.

All three fast jets seem to take good opportunity to show off their colours, under and top side, and I am grateful for that.

I will mention the food prices, so there's no need for any finger wagging retort - the prices were extortionate. And I took my own picnic, though sometimes do purchase from vendors on longer days.

The orange netting was a joke - really should be regular gaps small enough for pedestrians to actually move about the site between areas that they are actually allowed to be in. I'm all for reducing obesity by encouraging step count, but the netting did no favours at all.

Took two hours to get out - including a full hour where there was no movement at all - we were down by where the Navy livery Wessex was. All of the traffic wavers seemed to be lining the exit in the last 200 metres before going under the railway. Very few at the other end of the site.

I am with O2 - had no signal all day long on site. So no cheesy Facebook selfies in front of the Hercules.

Was good to be back at a UK show. Thank you.
Now officially qualifies as a 'regular' at Famous Dave's - El Centro

Gt5500
Posts: 488
Joined: Tue 09 Jul 2019, 4:40 pm

Re: Cosford 2022 - your thoughts

Post by Gt5500 »

Martin77 wrote:
Wed 15 Jun 2022, 8:42 pm
The Reds were mysteriously only a seven ship and there are interesting theories doing the rounds as to why. .
With respect it's hardly a mystery, it's been covered on here and in the mainstream media.

User avatar
jasonT1981
Posts: 2082
Joined: Fri 19 Jul 2013, 5:57 pm

Re: Cosford 2022 - your thoughts

Post by jasonT1981 »

spellow3010 wrote:
Thu 16 Jun 2022, 9:11 am


I am with O2 - had no signal all day long on site.
I'm with 02 too, even on the Saturday, with few there, there was no signal for calls or mobile internet.

JonG96
Posts: 146
Joined: Wed 18 May 2016, 10:13 am

Re: Cosford 2022 - your thoughts

Post by JonG96 »

DerekF wrote:
Wed 15 Jun 2022, 9:07 pm
One other thing I noticed was the complete lack of a mobile signal all day. Not that I spend all day on the phone but for keeping loved ones informed or finding friends it was pretty useless. It might be a network thing (I'm with EE) but in 2022, the lack of any sort of mobile signal or wifi is a bit of an issue.
I had good signal (3 bars) too but the data and calls don’t work. Cosford always has this issue when I’ve tried over the years. I think it’s a similar issue you find at premier league football matches. Because so many people are trying to access the data all at once within that area it goes really slow or doesn’t work. Notifications were popping up on my phone every now and then when it finally worked but couldn’t use apps etc. Not sure on why calls don’t work though.

User avatar
speedbird2639
Posts: 1346
Joined: Wed 13 Jul 2011, 11:35 am

Re: Cosford 2022 - your thoughts

Post by speedbird2639 »

They (the show organisers) were aware of the situation to the extent that they issued a 'warning' prior to the show that contactless payment might not work on the showground due to the lack of Wifi signal.

They were hoping to get one of the networks to rig up some sort of temporary solution for the weekend but presumably that didn't happen.

To be fair to them it is a similar situation when you have any large group of people all trying to get on their phones - ever tried using the internet say at a football ground?