FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

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vulcan57
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by vulcan57 »

I was just thinking about these increases and the doing away with the MACH packages. Mach 1 this year is £300, and if anyone one of those didn't mind sitting in the lower seats, they could get next year for the same price, no increase! I can see band D selling pretty fast and that is going to leave those that can only make it for 4 or 2 days (like myself) having to spend £75 - £125 extra to do what would have been a MACH 2 and even more for those that used to do MACH 3. After a number of years of doing FRIAT at MACH 2, I do feel like they are forcing us out of a FRIAT package. I love FRIAT and hope somehow to continue using it but, unfortunately I'm a bit concerned that its not going to be possible in the coming years. I do totally understand that prices would have to be increased but the way FRIAT has gone about it seems a little unfair unless you're able to do 6 days.

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Wrexham Mackem
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by Wrexham Mackem »

Adam the gardener wrote:
Sat 02 Jul 2022, 9:46 am
My biggest issue is the removal of the numbered ticket (application form) system at the blue gate.

In my opinion this is a totally retrograde step, taking us back to the bad old days - 21 years ago when who got the best seat(s) was not decided by who was first in the queue at the gate, but by who could sprint the fastest across the airfield to the FRIAT tent, pick up and fill in a form and hand it over at the desk with a cheque.

I last witnessed this at RAF Cottesmore back in 2001. At the gate I met an elderly gentleman with angina and bad knees who was unable to run across. I carried his bag for him and we went across as fast as was possible but at the end he was totally fatigued. This angered me so much I wrote to FRIAT - even offering to hand out numbered raffle tickets at the gate to be attached to the application forms. Lo and behold, the next year the numbered ticket system was introduced on the return to Fairford in 2002. Ever since then myself and my now long time friend have joined the queue at 0X.00hrs to ensure we got seats together, above the aisle.

Thanks for all your work Tommy and I do hope we can have a quick about turn on this unequal/unfair policy and a last minute reintroduction of the numbered ticket system at the blue gate.
I agree wholeheartedly. If we go back to that old way, then a chunk of Thursday morning in the enclosure will be taken away getting this organised, and it'll be bedlam in there.

That's a great story there Adam, and it was a great little system, which was fair, quick and worked perfectly. It seems they're trying to fix something that ain't broke.

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iainpeden
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by iainpeden »

vulcan57 wrote:
Sat 02 Jul 2022, 12:17 pm
I was just thinking about these increases and the doing away with the MACH packages. Mach 1 this year is £300, and if anyone one of those didn't mind sitting in the lower seats, they could get next year for the same price, no increase! I can see band D selling pretty fast and that is going to leave those that can only make it for 4 or 2 days (like myself) having to spend £75 - £125 extra to do what would have been a MACH 2 and even more for those that used to do MACH 3. After a number of years of doing FRIAT at MACH 2, I do feel like they are forcing us out of a FRIAT package. I love FRIAT and hope somehow to continue using it but, unfortunately I'm a bit concerned that its not going to be possible in the coming years. I do totally understand that prices would have to be increased but the way FRIAT has gone about it seems a little unfair unless you're able to do 6 days.
Plus one on that. As a now retired teacher there were many times I could only do the weekend, depending on the start of the summer holiday - sometime Saturday through Monday, so a group will be made to pay for something unaccessible.
Add to that are the astronomical increase in accomodation charges made by local (sometimes not so local) hotels which all cash in on RIAT, means for me it could be the proverbial straw breaking the camel's back.
(Mark Twain: There are lies, there are damn lies and then there are statistics)

frank
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by frank »

So on Thursday morning, several hundred or many hundred descend into the FRIAT tent and queue up to fill in a form and give bank details. How long will it take to process whilst we wish to get onto the grandstand or P&V. I can just see the pain we wil go through

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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by iainpeden »

That’s also discriminatory as those of us with Mach 2 can only get in on Friday, potentially finding next year our preferred package is sold out.
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microlight
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by microlight »

Dropped out of being a FRIAT member a couple of years ago , this was purely due to the rapid rate the packages sold out and forced us to join the masses a couple of years back !

Sadly the tickets going on sale relatively early is what forced us away from FRIAT - have been attending Fairford since 1989 ..... shortly after , each year attending as FRIAT members until 2017/2018.

This pricing all seems somewhat short sighted - that due to work / commitments /personal circumstances some of us cannot commit to FRIAT or RIAT attendance as early as we used to or DBH would like us to. I cannot submit my leave for 2023 until Oct 2022 , and then it doesn't get confirmed or denied until Nov/Dec 2022 !!

What's the refund policy if you buy and then can't attend ?????

Had looked at going back to FRIAT in 2023 next year (two of us again ) , but taking hotel accommodation costs - absolutely over hiked over the last few years to rip off levels , having to commute to/from hotels not in the immediate vicinity , the current cost of petrol , which wasn't forecast last year , and now the requirement to fork out an incredible amount in such a short time scale (will probably put some folk into a debt situation in the current climate ). Folks living within a 25/50 mile radius might be content but the folks travelling hundreds of miles each way , having to then get accommodation for the duration are put under more financial pressure.

Some folk will still be paying the cost off for a number of months .....

Is the "euphoria" of being at RIAT 2022 at the time of release of the application forms being used to fuel the spend and panic folk into securing tickets/seats.

DBH need to remember some of us cannot attend for the full duration , Friday to Monday is our personal max due individual circumstances.

The fact that no other air show of this scale is available to the folks anywhere else in the UK shouldn't be used ramp prices up.
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Berf
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by Berf »

This whole saga is sad and disappointing. After three years all most wanted was to enjoy an airshow and forget about the worries of life for at least a few hours. Now it is tainted by worrying about trying to find funds, concerns about lack of information, simply not knowing how it will all work, disappointment at not being able to afford it in some cases - all when none of it was necessary. It's all losing the human, friendly aspect and turning into a money machine which will spit you out when you are no longer required. That's not everyone and not most of the volunteers (who will decline when they start to feel being used by the money machine) but it is for some in control. Perhaps those who lack the history and feeling of the event and measure success only by cash. If that pervades into the crews attending as well then they too will be less likely to attend. I know it's all about charity but to succeed at that it's got to be all about people first.

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phreakf4
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by phreakf4 »

There are a couple of points people should perhaps consider.

First, FRIAT needs RIAT, but RIAT could happily continue without FRIAT. The "prime" crowdline space currently occupied by the FRIAT enclosure could (and probably would) be sold to a "corporate hostility" company at a rate which would more than compensate for the loss of the income from FRIAT (which after accounting for marqee, grandstand and toilets hire probably isn't much)

Secondly, people threatening to no longer participate in FRIAT would be no deterrent to the organisers, since FRIAT currently always sells out quickly and there are always others who would take up the slack.

Let me point out that I have been attending at Fairford and Cottesmore and before those, Greenham Common, mostly as FRIAT (or FIAT) except for a couple of years (due to unavoidable family circumstances or recovery from surgery) since the 1970s. It has been my only real holiday break for, literally, decades. If the new system means monthly direct debit payments are no longer accepted then as a pensioner I could not afford such a single payment at that time of year and would, reluctantly, have to attend maybe a couple of days at most.
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Phil Standfield
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by Phil Standfield »

As someone who has never done FRIAT but since 1991 except Cottesmore have done Wednesday to Sunday evening camping at Kempsford/similar and doing campsite Wednesday, PV thursday/Fri, Show (inside) Fri-Sun i can really feel your pain.
I understand costs have and will raise considerably to run the show but so have/will every attendee's too. From my point of view yes i love the 4 days holiday at RIAT and everything that makes it, but each year i have to justify to the wife time off work and away then the campsite costs, food etc and diesel to get there and back and thats before the costs of each days tickets.
With not having the show for the past 2 years i did my bit and rolled over the tickets hoping there would still be a RIAT to attend and of course not having price rises as all prices have stayed the same.
But this increase does worry me in the view if they are hitting the very loyal supporters of you in FRIAT then whats coming next year for us Joe Public who don't do FRIAT. Surely it would seem like there will have to be a rather large hike in ticket costs, when you factor in the no doubt hike in accommodation costs as it seems to be even more rip off Britain and price of fuel to keep soaring then really i would seriously be thinking rather to stop going all together,
Even though i live in South Dorset (so closer than many) all costs would have to be worked out near the show to see if its justifiable, or do just one day and pray the weather & display's play ball. Really has taken the shine off this years show.

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mavvymoo
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by mavvymoo »

I missed the opportunity to contribute to the email - thanks for pulling it together Tommy - but having discussed it at home this will probably be our last FRIAT/RIAT for the foreseeable. The astronomical rise not only in the enclosure cost but also the peripherals such as camping on the official site and of course the looming spectre of travel costs pushes our spending well past £1k and that’s before eating and drinking. The DD option was the safety line that made it just about practical - without that we’re just not going to do it. Perhaps the lockdowns and RIATless years are making it easier to break what has become a prohibitively expensive habit.
Fun as it has been, only being a fan of flying as opposed to a spotter*, the attraction of multiple F-16s for example going through similar routines just isn’t there any more - that’s no one’s fault it’s down to the homogenisation of aircraft in general, fewer historic examples able to display, and the general blandness of special fly pasts (although the BOAC 747 was a true exception) but these all add up to not representing good value to me.
I appreciate others will still feel it’s a great show, but as with my occasional quips on here, I understand not everyone else will agree with me.

*For the avoidance of doubt firstly I’m not deriding spotters - I’m forever looking upwards - and secondly it’s absolutely not a dig at those at DBH and their efforts developing the programme and inviting participants 👍🏼
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by iainpeden »

If you do RIAT regularly you are a “spotter” but don’t worry you can get a cream to deal with it. There was an extensive thread on FC over the winter about what makes a spotter - the only conclusion was that it’s a multi faceted hobby.
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mavvymoo
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by mavvymoo »

iainpeden wrote:
Sun 03 Jul 2022, 11:18 am
If you do RIAT regularly you are a “spotter” but don’t worry you can get a cream to deal with it. There was an extensive thread on FC over the winter about what makes a spotter - the only conclusion was that it’s a multi faceted hobby.
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spellow3010
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by spellow3010 »

Before anyone starts, I take my own food and drink into the show - but will have a coffee from a vendor once settled. That's part of my attendance budget, a latte as I wait for the action to start on all 6 days.

I will be curious to see the price of food/drink at this year's event - with Cosford in mind at £6 for a dry bread roll and two rashers of bacon in it. Barely any change from a fiver for an average ice cream.

Reprehensive
Obscene
Belligerent
Brass necked
Incredulous
Nefarious
Gross

Sinister
Oligarchical
Disappointing
Sods

--
As for RIAT 2023... I've always considered RIAT (especially the arrivals days) to be a decent return on emotional value for money spent. The experience, the memories have historically (for me) been way better than comparable spend on other things - at least in the past.

Looking ahead, with fuel, accommodation, own picnic food/drink, a FRIAT ticket (and/or the scrum of general admission yet to be announced predicted hikes in cost) - I'm 90% certain not to renew, especially being charged during this year's show, and increasingly likely that I won't come back to the show full stop.

Once you've experienced RIAT as a FRIAT member, you may be unlikely to want to go back to experiencing general admission - I wish I had done FRIAT right from my first attendance in the mid-1990s. I won't go back to standard admission. I'm too old for the scrum now. I'll likely stay away. Might be a good time to actually go back into my photo archive and start processing stuff I haven't touched in over a decade. Terabytes of my own memories yet to be reviewed.

If RIAT falls by the wayside off the back of all of this - COVID, inflation, Putin (the word removed) and the rest of it, then so be it. Maybe it is time for it to end. As with most things, it was fun while it lasted. But nothing lasts forever. That goes for my good will too.

As a point of principle, and timing, that email from 'them' will live a bit longer in the memory than some of the other stuff I look back on.

--
Even if I was clamouring to renew, I wouldn't be filling out my form until the Friday. Not interested in being in the grandstand on a Thursday - all the arrivals have touched down by the time they reach the grandstand and that's not the view I am looking for on arrivals day TYVM.

Yep, a lot of butt hurt in this thread, for various qualified reasons. I wish everyone attending a safe journey to/from the show and an enjoyable spectacle whilst it's all happening around the showground - whether you are inside, or in a naughty field. Peace be with you.
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cg_341
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by cg_341 »

spellow3010 wrote:
Mon 04 Jul 2022, 9:25 am
Once you've experienced RIAT as a FRIAT member, you may be unlikely to want to go back to experiencing general admission - I wish I had done FRIAT right from my first attendance in the mid-1990s. I won't go back to standard admission. I'm too old for the scrum now.
I've never done FRIAT, mostly because I can see everything in one day so why bother paying for tickets and accomodation for six, but I've also never experienced a "scrum" on entry. Have a missed some really important event that happens as gates open for all these years?!

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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by RAF4EVER »

cg_341 wrote:
Mon 04 Jul 2022, 12:27 pm
spellow3010 wrote:
Mon 04 Jul 2022, 9:25 am
Once you've experienced RIAT as a FRIAT member, you may be unlikely to want to go back to experiencing general admission - I wish I had done FRIAT right from my first attendance in the mid-1990s. I won't go back to standard admission. I'm too old for the scrum now.
I've never done FRIAT, mostly because I can see everything in one day so why bother paying for tickets and accomodation for six, but I've also never experienced a "scrum" on entry. Have a missed some really important event that happens as gates open for all these years?!
Same for me

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blackcat
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by blackcat »

RAF4EVER wrote:
Mon 04 Jul 2022, 12:32 pm
cg_341 wrote:
Mon 04 Jul 2022, 12:27 pm
spellow3010 wrote:
Mon 04 Jul 2022, 9:25 am
Once you've experienced RIAT as a FRIAT member, you may be unlikely to want to go back to experiencing general admission - I wish I had done FRIAT right from my first attendance in the mid-1990s. I won't go back to standard admission. I'm too old for the scrum now.
I've never done FRIAT, mostly because I can see everything in one day so why bother paying for tickets and accomodation for six, but I've also never experienced a "scrum" on entry. Have a missed some really important event that happens as gates open for all these years?!
Same for me
I guess this is if you want to see the Runway/right up against the front. If thats the case it probably is a scrum.

If i have learnt anything it is to go and watch the show,I found myself spending so much time behind the lens i didnt really get to enjoy the show.
If it is really sunny then a lot of the images are soft anyway due to heat haze etc, Found that out one year.

Found it far more relaxing to just sit back and enjoy the spectacle.

What ever you chose to do make sure you enjoy it.

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capercaillie
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by capercaillie »

cg_341 wrote:
Mon 04 Jul 2022, 12:27 pm
I've never done FRIAT, mostly because I can see everything in one day so why bother paying for tickets for six
But you don't.
In 2019, didn't go Thursday, you missed this
ImageFalcon 7X 607 Hungarian Air Force by Paul Downes, on Flickr

Not there on Saturday you missed
ImagePC-24 T-786 Transport Squadron Swiss Air Force by Paul Downes, on Flickr

and of course
Image747-436 G-BYGC British Airways by Paul Downes, on Flickr

Monday departures absent, you never saw
ImageA319-112 604 Hungarian Air Force by Paul Downes, on Flickr

OK that might be sad spotting or whatever, but the feel of arrivals anticipation, the joy of FRIAT topside goodbyes or cleaning up departures are all part of the thrill of RIAT. Its why we do six days, not just to log everything in one day. And I've never scrummed there either.
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spellow3010
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by spellow3010 »

Nail on the head Caper. It's different strokes for different folks.

I made the 'mistake' of doing Totterdown on a show day in 2017 (had a showground ticket) and missed the B2 topside... Gutted that I was!! :D
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CJS
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by CJS »

I guess in the end the proof of the pudding will be in the eating. If DBH have got this right, then FRIAT will sell out again for 2023 and they can say the changes were justified. If FRIAT doesn't sell out (remember, it's choice to buy in to it) then they will - just from a purely business point of view - of course have to reconsider and adjust; that could be reducing the prices, reverting to a different format, reducing the number of FRIAT tickets and so on.

As with anything like this, if there are enough people willing to part with the money, it will be deemed to have been a valid decision. Not popular necessarily, but valid nonetheless.

Just my opinion, obvs.
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blackcat
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by blackcat »

CJS wrote:
Mon 04 Jul 2022, 2:08 pm
I guess in the end the proof of the pudding will be in the eating. If DBH have got this right, then FRIAT will sell out again for 2023 and they can say the changes were justified. If FRIAT doesn't sell out (remember, it's choice to buy in to it) then they will - just from a purely business point of view - of course have to reconsider and adjust; that could be reducing the prices, reverting to a different format, reducing the number of FRIAT tickets and so on.

As with anything like this, if there are enough people willing to part with the money, it will be deemed to have been a valid decision. Not popular necessarily, but valid nonetheless.

Just my opinion, obvs.
I guess they get to see the demand also , You might find they could have sold out twice over or something and thus feel they can still fill it at a new price?
Makes good sales sense to be honest ,Supply and demand etc,

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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by bishbashbosh »

For me it's the Thursday thing which is the most annoying. I prefer to go to P&V East and do not want to be forced to spend a day in the grandstand (and severley compromise my day) just so I can complete some admin task for the organisers. I resent it enough that in previous years I've not been able to collect a numbered form until the Friday = despite over a decade of FRIAT membership I'm still a few rows from the top - but at least I'm still guaranteed to get in again next year. If they must go down this route then they should start the booking process on Friday - a main show day when there's a fair amount of time before the displays start. I can just imagine missing the E-4 arrial as I stand in a long line waiting to confirm for next year. Why can't they have a simple online system to do this? - you have your membership number, you log on before X date, and you book your package; or give everyone a form and process them afterwards - we could state a prefernece order for packages (e.g. A, C, B, D) and if there is excess demand for one then it's a lottery. Why the insistence on a physical first-come-first-served policy is beyond me - especially when at the end of the day everyone in the grandstand has the same right to renew for next year. Unless they make the grandstand smaller, then surely everyone gets a seat again. It shouldn't be based on how fast you can run from the entrance to the enclosure or your willingness to sacrifice your enjoyment of arrivals.
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Tommy
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by Tommy »

CJS wrote:
Mon 04 Jul 2022, 2:08 pm
I guess in the end the proof of the pudding will be in the eating. If DBH have got this right, then FRIAT will sell out again for 2023 and they can say the changes were justified. If FRIAT doesn't sell out (remember, it's choice to buy in to it) then they will - just from a purely business point of view - of course have to reconsider and adjust; that could be reducing the prices, reverting to a different format, reducing the number of FRIAT tickets and so on.
I absolutely take this point, but it’s not purely the price increases that people are railing at, though they form the core of it. It’s also the crappy level of information provided for a completely changed system. What do the bands mean? Which rows? What’s the product?

As for the “if people pay, then it’s justified” you are, of course, absolutely correct, but as RIAT hold the equivalent of a monopoly, it’s always deeply unsatisfying saying “march with your feet” because there’s nowhere else to match. I mentioned this on the podcast we recorded (coming soon) on Saturday night - there simply aren’t any other large foreign military shows to attend in the U.K. This show means a lot to a lot of people, and does a lot for their mental health.

Now they face the agonising decision of sitting at home unable or unwilling to afford to do the things that make them happy. Oh, sure, people will pay, but that doesn’t always make it right.

And if FRIAT costs are such a boom for the show, FRIAT members love RIAT - obviously - I don’t want to see FRIAT full of unsold seats because they made (potentially) an erroneous business decision. I won’t get any satisfaction from that because I know that the show and the charity will be taking a hit, too.

And what, say, if general admission tickets face a similar jump? What if FRIATers said “nah, I’ll just do general admission” and then tickets also increase by 50%, so weekend tickets are £90 - that might mean that FRIAT suddenly, again, becomes the cheaper option if you’re doing the full whack (which was always the point of it) - but that FRIAT member doesn’t find out until general admission tickets go on sale in the autumn and FRIAT has (perhaps) sold out?

And all with just 14 days (less now) to make a decision, possibly find the money, and have a conversation with significant others?

We all (well, most I daresay) expected price increases - it’s a cost of living crisis, of course we did. We’re happy to cover and anticipated price increases. But increasing prices by possibly 50%, *and* completely changing the system with two weeks to go until they expect some of us to part with the cash *and* not telling us what we’re actually paying for is a crappy way to go about it. Particularly when the FRIAT Forum is precisely the sort of thing where that ought to have been raised.

Put yourself in our shoes -

Imagine your usual admission ticket(s) for next year jumped by 50% and you were told with only two weeks and no additional payday (and the same month you have an actual holiday and all the costs associated with that) until you had to buy them (or risk them either selling out or you not being able to get the type of ticket you usually get), and you were told that the entire format was changing (because “that’s what *you* wanted”), and you now pay for a full three days regardless of when you usually attend - in full, all at once - you’d be similarly annoyed, I think.

Yeh, you could vote with your feet, but that also means missing out on not only a highlight event in the year, but your only opportunity to meet up with friends you haven’t seen for 12 months. Or, maybe, you decide not to contribute to keeping the show going (as they’ve mentioned they need all the cash they can get) and you instead go to Totterdown and pay £20 for the day or something.

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Wissam24
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by Wissam24 »

We talk about the price increases for some time in our latest podcast episode.

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Tommy
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by Tommy »

I *suspect* with a bit of clarity (still waiting a response but I did have a pleasant and prompt call to acknowledge receipt), the price rises will still pinch, especially during these times, but will not be as bad as they first seem.

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Tommy
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Re: FRIAT 2023 ticket increases discussion

Post by Tommy »

Wissam24 wrote:
Mon 04 Jul 2022, 4:16 pm
We talk about the price increases for some time in our latest podcast episode.

Genuinely not sure whether I’m happy with myself in this - it’s about as harsh as I have ever been towards DBH. And forgive the blue language at times.

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