Noise reduction or sharpen first - and the R5

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Berf
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Noise reduction or sharpen first - and the R5

Post by Berf »

Having a new camera, which uses CR3, I thought I would go back and take a look at the differences of sharpening first or NR first.

The old mantra was NR first - I won't go into the reasons there are all over the internet. But for all that that are others that say the opposite. Of course there are new ways of doing things, new algorithms etc etc than in the old days of Photoshop etc.

My experiment found that sharpening first and then NR worked best - albeit marginal (using the same NR and sharpening settings).

I feel that there is likely to be no set rule now with so many different options. But it may be worth seeing if the way you do it is still the best way in the light of new software updates.

I also saw a comment on a forum that processing images from an R5 in LR resulted in noisy images. I don't normally use LR to process but had tried out a few RIAT pics just to see how they came out before I read this. I found rather too much noise for my liking and was somewhat disappointed. Having reprocessed them in PS and using other NR software they are actually fine - so beware if you are relying on LR if using a R5 - this could also apply to other cameras so worth checking.

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Pen Pusher
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Re: Noise reduction or sharpen first - and the R5

Post by Pen Pusher »

I put all my RAW photos that I'm going to process through DxO PureRAW 2 ( https://www.dxo.com/dxo-pureraw/ ) first as it not only gives you lens correction but also noise reduction, if needed, and global sharpening. The end result is a Linear DNG image ( https://www.dxo.com/tech-news/linear-dng/ ) which means my 24MB images become around 70MB images.
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Berf
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Re: Noise reduction or sharpen first - and the R5

Post by Berf »

I was thinking of trying DxO - there's a free trial and there's no arguing with the quality of your pictures!

Berf
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Re: Noise reduction or sharpen first - and the R5

Post by Berf »

Just tried Pure RAW - results are impressive although I am not sure I am using it all correctly. Processing time is quite long though. The basic R5 file is now 129mb!

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tankbuster
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Re: Noise reduction or sharpen first - and the R5

Post by tankbuster »

Another shout for PureRaw, it really is one of the best software packages I have owned, yet so simple. When you use it you stop thinking that noise reduction is a requirement. It does all the work on the raw image before you even see it.
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tankbuster
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Re: Noise reduction or sharpen first - and the R5

Post by tankbuster »

Berf wrote:
Fri 29 Jul 2022, 11:02 am
Just tried Pure RAW - results are impressive although I am not sure I am using it all correctly. Processing time is quite long though. The basic R5 file is now 129mb!
Processing time is very dependent on a good graphics card. I take 7 seconds per image.
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Re: Noise reduction or sharpen first - and the R5

Post by Pen Pusher »

Of the 3 RAW processing options, HQ/PRIME/DeepPRIME, I use PRIME and DeepPRIME for lowlight/night shoots. One of my images take around 1 minute in PRIME to process.
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Infowar
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Re: Noise reduction or sharpen first - and the R5

Post by Infowar »

Interesting read. I have just bought a Canon R5, moving on from my old Canon 7D2 and 5D2. I have to say how impressed I am with the minimal noise at high ISO. As a rule, I don't usually shoot much higher than ISO 200 but with the R5, I could shoot much higher ISO without any worries. I haven't shot jpeg since 2008 but for my first trip out, I shot jpeg all day and was blown away with colour, white balance and overall image quality. I spent the day shooting a charity football match last week for my second outing with it, the weather was poor at times and for the first time ever, I used auto ISO and jpeg. The results are amazing. What a camera the R5 is. I am not sure I need to shoot RAW anymore for most of my pictures, as the jpeg results are stunning and plenty big enough. I did sharpen the reduced size image during processing. That is just my experince.

Berf
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Re: Noise reduction or sharpen first - and the R5

Post by Berf »

Infowar - yes the results are great but download a free trial version of the above and see even more difference particulalry at higher ISO. I too used to try to keep to not much above 400. Now it is all changed.

Brenden S
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Re: Noise reduction or sharpen first - and the R5

Post by Brenden S »

I too have recently purchased the R5. I bought DXO as well for the high ISO shots. I will say for sure that I use DXO 1st and then edit in photoshop for high ISO. Normal shots, I just add in a little NR in the adobe RAW editor before going into photoshop. Links to some photos below.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/32794028@ ... 9772832613

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Mooshie1956
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Re: Noise reduction or sharpen first - and the R5

Post by Mooshie1956 »

I forgot about this thread until Friday, and I decided to give DXO a try. I must admit first impressions are great. I've been using Topaz for noise reduction while it looks good for birds I found that when using it on planes I tend to get some weird artifacts.
Have tried DXO on both plane and bird shots it looks like I'll be making a purchase thanks to the advice given here.
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reheat module
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Re: Noise reduction or sharpen first - and the R5

Post by reheat module »

If the OP indicates CR3, does it not come with the latest Canon refined algorithms within DPP for noise reduction?
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Brenden S
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Re: Noise reduction or sharpen first - and the R5

Post by Brenden S »

There is a Canon R5/R6 group on facebook and everyone uses DXO or Topaz.

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jalfrezi
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Re: Noise reduction or sharpen first - and the R5

Post by jalfrezi »

Brenden S wrote:
Tue 06 Dec 2022, 1:43 am
There is a Canon R5/R6 group on facebook and everyone uses DXO or Topaz.
Never used either, just Adobe Camera Raw and Photoshop. Maybe I should see what DXO can do!

Lighning Fan
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Re: Noise reduction or sharpen first - and the R5

Post by Lighning Fan »

jalfrezi wrote:
Fri 31 Mar 2023, 8:27 pm
Brenden S wrote:
Tue 06 Dec 2022, 1:43 am
There is a Canon R5/R6 group on facebook and everyone uses DXO or Topaz.
Never used either, just Adobe Camera Raw and Photoshop. Maybe I should see what DXO can do!
I think both offer free trials - I know lots of bird photographers rave about them. There is also a YouTube video from Stuart Rouse, who is an aviation photographer covering Topaz and his workflow

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GeorgeP
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Re: Noise reduction or sharpen first - and the R5

Post by GeorgeP »

jalfrezi wrote:
Fri 31 Mar 2023, 8:27 pm
...Never used either, just Adobe Camera Raw and Photoshop. Maybe I should see what DXO can do!
I hadn't either, just Canon DPP and Photoshop CS6, until I was introduced to DxO PureRAW by a fellow Australian aircraft photographer. Version 2 was excellent, apart from the only export options being jpeg or DNG. Version 3 now permits a TIFF export which I can open in PS CS6 and by-pass ACR (I perform RAW adjustments in Canon's DPP, then open the adjusted RAW file in DxO PureRAW).

When using DxO PureRAW, I turn off the lens correction because I find that it over-sharpens the images. Using the highest level of processing in PureRAW on a 40MB Canon 5D IV RAW file takes just under one minute with my mid-spec desktop computer. A free 30-day trial is available. Hope this helps.

[EDIT] You may need to boost the exposure of your RAW files by about a third of a stop because the TIFF that DxO PureRAW spits out tends to be a little darker than the original.
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jalfrezi
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Re: Noise reduction or sharpen first - and the R5

Post by jalfrezi »

Thanks both. I tried Pure RAW out on Saturday and for high noise shots it came as a bit of a revelation! So, I will definitely be purchasing it.

I've looked at Topaz before, but can't say I've been too impressed with the results over what you can do in Photoshop anyway.

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Mooshie1956
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Re: Noise reduction or sharpen first - and the R5

Post by Mooshie1956 »

Adobe have now added there own version of denoise to lightroom. I've been trying it out today and not fully sure what to make of it.
Main points I've noticed are,
It's slower on my PC than Topaz.
It seems to me that it keeps detail better than Topaz.
Topaz seems better if your slightly out of focus with it's sharpening built in.
It only works on RAW files at the moment but not phone camera raw, Topaz works on Raw and jpg.
I don't have Pure Raw to try it against.
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